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Old 06-20-2006   #1
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Default David Carr's on the right track...

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Kubiak called out QB David Carr as the most improved player of the offseason. With so many changes being thrown Carr's way, the coaches have been impressed with how he has adapted. He's listening well and learning. He's also taking their advice and using it on the field. The key is continuing to develop as the team resumes its workouts in training camp. In addition to working on his arm, accuracy and footwork, the Texans are challenging Carr to be a more vocal leader. He has led more by example in the past, and the Texans hope he can emerge as more of a voice on offense on the field and in the locker room.
Now....... what exactly does this mean??

To me, we have our new Head Coach...... Gary Kubiak. Basically saying the same things that guys like myself, Vinny, and a few other guys who get attacked for "bashing" David Carr.

David's been working on his arm, his accuracy, his footwork, and his leadership skills. Everything we said he needed to improve. Things you could see, that he was not doing, that he should be doing as a 4 year starter, #1 overall draft pick, even behind a poor offensive line.

Extending Carr's contract was the right thing to do..... because of what he had to go through, & the punishment he has taken...... largely not due to his own fault. The $8 million, in my mind, is what threw the option out, as a no brainer. Yes, extending Carr's contract is the right thing to do, but $8 million is too much to pay him for how he has played. 4 years is too long to still be paying a guy on potential.

So what's the point in this post??

Just to say...... we were right....

I understand being a fan, and sticking with your guy... but some of you here are just blinded by your loyalty, to call a duck a duck.....

I want to see David Carr succeede...... as I'm sure Vinny does.... I wanted to see Ragone, and Gaffney succeed as well.

During the season, you won't see me criticize Carr....... but when we are at a point, where we can make improvements, then we all need to be honest, and objective. A few months back, I know many fans read my posts, and formed opinions of me...... I'm a Carr hater, I look at the world through burnt orange glasses..... & I'm sure after reading some of my analysis, many have concluded that I don't know what I'm talking about.

So..... anyway..... carry on.
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Old 06-20-2006   #2
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You can make a very convincing arguement that Carr is the ideal QB for this type of offense and that he will rebound and become the probowler we all hoped for. You can also make a very convincing arguement that he would be an ideal salesman at Landmark Chevrolet and should pursue that career in earnest. This one will will have to be settled on the field.
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Old 06-20-2006   #3
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Originally Posted by thunderkyss
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During the season, you won't see me criticize Carr....... but when we are at a point, where we can make improvements, then we all need to be honest, and objective. A few months back, I know many fans read my posts, and formed opinions of me...... I'm a Carr hater, I look at the world through burnt orange glasses..... & I'm sure after reading some of my analysis, many have concluded that I don't know what I'm talking about.
You are right...There hasn't really been a fine line on the Carr subject...People don't believe that you can think objectively about him...most ppl seem to think either you gotta love him or you gotta hate him... for me it's neither...I haven't seen what he can do with a good team around him...8 mil was too much, but hopefully he will prove he is worth it
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Old 06-20-2006   #4
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I understand being a fan, and sticking with your guy... but some of you here are just blinded by your loyalty, to call a duck a duck.....
Kind of like some with AJ, he is entering his 4th seeason, and is the highest paid player on the team, has one season with over 1000 yards receiving, and started dropping passes again last season...
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Old 06-20-2006   #5
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Originally Posted by texan279
Kind of like some with AJ, he is entering his 4th seeason, and is the highest paid player on the team
AJ makes more than Carr? What are we paying him?
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Old 06-20-2006   #6
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AJ makes more than Carr? What are we paying him?
AJ counts $7,383,664 against the cap this season, Carr $7,256,720 against the cap.
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Old 06-20-2006   #7
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Ugh, couldn't we have just posted the Carr article and closed the thread? Smells like another big'un already.
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Old 06-20-2006   #8
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Originally Posted by thunderkyss
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Now....... what exactly does this mean??

To me, we have our new Head Coach...... Gary Kubiak. Basically saying the same things that guys like myself, Vinny, and a few other guys who get attacked for "bashing" David Carr.

David's been working on his arm, his accuracy, his footwork, and his leadership skills. Everything we said he needed to improve. Things you could see, that he was not doing, that he should be doing as a 4 year starter, #1 overall draft pick, even behind a poor offensive line.

Extending Carr's contract was the right thing to do..... because of what he had to go through, & the punishment he has taken...... largely not due to his own fault. The $8 million, in my mind, is what threw the option out, as a no brainer. Yes, extending Carr's contract is the right thing to do, but $8 million is too much to pay him for how he has played. 4 years is too long to still be paying a guy on potential.

So what's the point in this post??

Just to say...... we were right....

I understand being a fan, and sticking with your guy... but some of you here are just blinded by your loyalty, to call a duck a duck.....

I want to see David Carr succeede...... as I'm sure Vinny does.... I wanted to see Ragone, and Gaffney succeed as well.

During the season, you won't see me criticize Carr....... but when we are at a point, where we can make improvements, then we all need to be honest, and objective. A few months back, I know many fans read my posts, and formed opinions of me...... I'm a Carr hater, I look at the world through burnt orange glasses..... & I'm sure after reading some of my analysis, many have concluded that I don't know what I'm talking about.

So..... anyway..... carry on.
TKyss, I expect more from you! Starting another Carr thread. After all this message board has been through. Your not a rookie! Kidding.

Seriously, admit I am wrong? I would sooner change my screen name and pledge my aligence to the flaming meat heads!

The way I remember it everytime Carr spoke out he found himself having a meeting with Capers and Palmer about how he needs to keep his mouth shut. So now he has a coach who wants him to speak out. Every QB works on their accuracy.

Part of my arguments are that Carr has earned his chance to be on a good team and part b/c Carr has shown flashes of brillance when given the opportunity. I am sure Vinny will shoot back with he has never thrown over 200 blah blah yards in a win. Useless stat IMO.

So I would have to say if Carr succeeds we the people of the Carr are right and you are wrong. Wa Ha! How do ya like me now?! Kidding. Just kidding, slow day at the office.
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Old 06-20-2006   #9
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He is working on his throwing and footwork.............What else should he be working on punting the football.

Just because they say he is working on things does not mean you guys are "right" about every little thing you critique him on, IT means he is not perfect and is working on what he usually works on.

Let me just say this, Gary Kubiak is going to make this guy a Hall of Famer, you take into account his proto type QB mold, he can run, throw every route on the filed, is a smart guy on and off the field, does not make stupid mistakes, Works hard, has the right attitude AND FINALLY HAS A Head coach and a OC that are going to do nothing but elevate his game.
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Old 06-20-2006   #10
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I can't believe another Carr post was made just so you could let everyone know you were right, even though a lot of QB's work on the same things in practice, that is why it is called practice. The article didn't say how horrible anything was, just that he was working on some things, which is what all players do during practice, work to get better. I guess players like Jerry Rice get to a point in their careers where they no longer need to practice or work on technique, footwork, etc., just guys like Carr who are so horrible...
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Old 06-20-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANRED
TKyss, I expect more from you! Starting another Carr thread. After all this message board has been through. Your not a rookie! Kidding.
Slow day

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Originally Posted by TEXANRED
Part of my arguments are that Carr has earned his chance to be on a good team and part b/c Carr has shown flashes of brillance when given the opportunity. I am sure Vinny will shoot back with he has never thrown over 200 blah blah yards in a win. Useless stat IMO.
In all honesty, I can't imagine getting anything more for him, than Detroit got for Joey Harrington, if Detroit got anything at all..... I can't remember. But I think Carr would be looked at and treated like JH, in that the teams that he can start right away for, aren't very attractive.... The good teams, he'll be looked at as a solid backup, maybe future starter.

And to this date, that is what he has earned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANRED

So I would have to say if Carr succeeds we the people of the Carr are right and you are wrong. Wa Ha! How do ya like me now?! Kidding. Just kidding, slow day at the office.
NO, if Carr succeeds, then you guys were right, in that Kubiak is the man who can turn Carr around..... even the Carr detractors say he has the tools, he has the potential..... we just don't believe we should still be paying him on potential.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk75
Let me just say this, Gary Kubiak is going to make this guy a Hall of Famer, you take into account his proto type QB mold, he can run, throw every route on the filed, is a smart guy on and off the field, does not make stupid mistakes, Works hard, has the right attitude AND FINALLY HAS A Head coach and a OC that are going to do nothing but elevate his game.
Again..... the problem is that he is already being paid like a HOF..... and no, he hasn't shown that he can make every throw...... we know that his arm is strong enough to make every throw. & his hard work...... I know if I were David Carr, I know what I would have been doing in years past, and he hasn't been doing any of that..... &, he doesn't make stupid decisions that cost us games... he does make stupid decisions, that kill drives, or ruin our chances to advance the ball..... but not the one stupid decision(like McNabb does all the time) that looses the game.
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Old 06-20-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss
Again..... the problem is that he is already being paid like a HOF..... and no, he hasn't shown that he can make every throw...... we know that his arm is strong enough to make every throw. & his hard work...... I know if I were David Carr, I know what I would have been doing in years past, and he hasn't been doing any of that..... &, he doesn't make stupid decisions that cost us games... he does make stupid decisions, that kill drives, or ruin our chances to advance the ball..... but not the one stupid decision(like McNabb does all the time) that looses the game.
And AJ is being paid the same as well, and shown he cannot make every catch, and what has AJ REALLY shown us except flashes of great play at times? Yet I see 1000 Carr threads on here and none about AJ...

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Old 06-20-2006   #13
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It's amazing how his contract is still such a big reason that people wish D.Carr wasn't a Texan. The simple fact is that he agreed to a legal contract 4 years ago that bound him to the team. In that contract, it stated that if the team wanted to keep him after the 4th year, which they did, they would have to pay him a large sum of money to do so. Contracts are contracts, and as much as many people hate it, it has already gone against the cap for this season. There is nothing that can be done about it now. Carr has the tools, we all know it. Build a bridge and get over it.
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Old 06-20-2006   #14
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Where I have a difference with Vinny and others is my belief that Carr has been coached into oblivion. That is it has been the coaching that has lead him down the road of ineffectiveness. I truely believe the difference this year will be night and day.

Kubiak should be able to bring out the best of Carr. I think Kubiak knows he has a QB that can be compared to Elway in a lot of ways. They have the same skill sets, but to what degree is the question. I'm not saying Carr is Elway, but rather all the things that made Elway Carr has. Elway wasn't much until the later part of his career.

Almost everything the previous coaching staff did was detrimental to the team. Yes, folks it was that bad. The draft this year and the FA are going to pay big dividends. Moulds is simply going to make an astounding difference in the receiver play. The GB center is going to impact the line play tremendously. Despite what some say Wand played well the one year he really played even with a line that was not playing together. Sherman is going to prove to be the glue that brings the O-line together.

I think in addition to all of the obvious points mentioned in various discussions on this web site, training will emerge as a big factor. We have been a walking hospital the last few years and I believe it was because of the marine core regiment approach to footbal invisioned by the previous coaching staff. We still have some nagging injuries to people like DD, but I think we will be a lot better off this year.

In the old days players came in out of shape and under worked. That is not the case today for the majority of the players, and in fact, many may over work their bodies. These guys are carring a lot of weight and there is a great deal of stress being put on the bodies. The heat in Houston has to be approached carefully as that can lead to the break down of the body. One element of the Denver success has been a different style of training that is not used by most teams.

The real reason, however, that Carr will be much better is simply because of what Kubiak said. Carr will be better when we give him the tools he needs to succeed. He can't do it all by himself. Its a team game. I have been saying for sometime that my expectations are very high, because we now have a TEAM and a coaching staff working as a TEAM. Do not under estimate what this means for this ball club. As I usually say folks, get ready for the ride its going to be a long one and it will be fun.
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Old 06-20-2006   #15
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Interesting take...that Carr was poorly coached as a reason for his mediocre first four years. BUT, when given the opportunity to call his own game (or half a game), he steps out of that bad coaching and does wonderful.

So I see folks using both angles - bad coaching and the Cardinals game last year - to defend Carr, but they seem to be at odds with each other. If he was badly coached, then wouldn't he have struggled during that particular game?

Of course, I'd love to see DC put up Pro-Bowl numbers this year, and even more to see Kubiak coach him to a HoF career.

But honestly, I'd be glad if he could be, at minimum, a Trent Dilfer-type QB - one who can manage a game and not lose it. Let the rest of the players and defense step up to take control, and let our QB get used to managing a dynamic gameplan before we expect Elway-like performances from him.
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Old 06-20-2006   #16
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But honestly, I'd be glad if he could be, at minimum, a Trent Dilfer-type QB - one who can manage a game and not lose it.
That was how Carr was used the previous 4 seasons. You want to go back to that? No, I want David Carr to have a chance at winning games. Throw on 1st down. Challenge zone defenses by going over the top. Get out on the edge and put pressure on the secondary. That's why you draft a QB #1 and give him a $8 million option bonus. If you want a Trent Dilfer, trade for Trent Dilfer.

(Did I just post in another David Carr thread? Bad Lucky. )
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Old 06-20-2006   #17
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With a 2-14 record and not a very good season last year, of course David needs improvement just like the rest of our team. Everyone has room for improvement. Bad coaching for 4 years obviously didn't help and Kubiak and Co are going to fix him. Sure it might take a little time but by the beginning of the season he'll be one to watch out for. It's not like he was a bad player before or anything...but we all knew that he wasn't reaching his full capabilities. He'll fly with the new system and the great new players we have brought in.
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Old 06-20-2006   #18
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Again..... the problem is that he is already being paid like a HOF..... and no, he hasn't shown that he can make every throw...... we know that his arm is strong enough to make every throw. & his hard work...... I know if I were David Carr, I know what I would have been doing in years past, and he hasn't been doing any of that..... &, he doesn't make stupid decisions that cost us games... he does make stupid decisions, that kill drives, or ruin our chances to advance the ball..... but not the one stupid decision(like McNabb does all the time) that looses the game.
He has not shown he make every throw, when, what times, what were the routes, tell me when he has not shown he could not do it.
I have seen him complete the deep ball on a line, lob it in, fades, outs ins, deep outs deep ins, slants are his specialty, can throw on the run, can throw off his back foot, did I miss one, O I did how about the one were the coach DOES NOT CALL ANYTHING BUT slants screens and deep balls.

Darren Woodson a Hall of Fame SS siad he can make every throw, I just dont know who to believe you or Darren Woodson.

When does he kill drives, what game, what play, what was the situation, the score, was it a sack, was it a run run before the 3rd and long were HE KILLED our chances.

I know which play the play were he went up top for the TD to put the stake in Jacksonvilles heart only to have the ball dropped by or 2nd string Wr Corey Bradford. OOOOO or how about the KC drive that got us into FG possition, I could keep going but I will not.

I will tell you this that his teammates have let him down more then Carr has let them down. It is not Carr VS his teammates but since we can point fingers here then I will point them more at his teammates and coaching then anything else.
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Old 06-20-2006   #19
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Darren Woodson a Hall of Fame SS siad he can make every throw, I just dont know who to believe you or Darren Woodson.
Who cares what a retired safety thinks that is a paid announcer? How many times does one of these guys say a guy can't cut it? It is very rare.

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When does he kill drives, what game, what play, what was the situation, the score, was it a sack, was it a run run before the 3rd and long were HE KILLED our chances.
Example, 2004 year, Sunday night against Green Bay. The offense couldn't get one first down in the 4th quarter. The team lost by a field by Green Bay as time expired.

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I know which play the play were he went up top for the TD to put the stake in Jacksonvilles heart only to have the ball dropped by or 2nd string Wr Corey Bradford. OOOOO or how about the KC drive that got us into FG possition, I could keep going but I will not.
Carr has had some good moments from time to time. But, he has thrown many balls in the ground out in the flat many times that should have been routine as handing the ball off.

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Originally Posted by Hulk75
I will tell you this that his teammates have let him down more then Carr has let them down. It is not Carr VS his teammates but since we can point fingers here then I will point them more at his teammates and coaching then anything else.
Hulk, you and many others have said that I have been to critical of Carr. It seems you are being too critical of his teammates. The most responsibility on the offense goes with the quarterback. Maybe you are right, maybe it mostly the other players fault than Carr's, but Carr as the quarterback has the most responsibility.

As I have said before, I believe Carr has the physical abilities but lacks that intangible thing to produce victories. Basically, I don't think he can cut it.

As for Carr being the most improved, I thought the offensive line was the worst in the NFL of all time. Wouldn't be reasonable that the offensive line or someone on that line would be most improved? According to many people, Carr's issues revolve around protection. Well, if his protection doesn't improve, how will his performance improve? Just a question of logic and not intended to be hate speech regarding Carr.
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Old 06-20-2006   #20
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Originally Posted by hollywood_texan
Who cares what a retired safety thinks that is a paid announcer? How many times does one of these guys say a guy can't cut it? It is very rare.



Example, 2004 year, Sunday night against Green Bay. The offense couldn't get one first down in the 4th quarter. The team lost by a field by Green Bay as time expired.



Carr has had some good moments from time to time. But, he has thrown many balls in the ground out in the flat many times that should have been routine as handing the ball off.



Hulk, you and many others have said that I have been to critical of Carr. It seems you are being too critical of his teammates. The most responsibility on the offense goes with the quarterback. Maybe you are right, maybe it mostly the other players fault than Carr's, but Carr as the quarterback has the most responsibility.

As I have said before, I believe Carr has the physical abilities but lacks that intangible thing to produce victories. Basically, I don't think he can cut it.

As for Carr being the most improved, I thought the offensive line was the worst in the NFL of all time. Wouldn't be reasonable that the offensive line or someone on that line would be most improved? According to many people, Carr's issues revolve around protection. Well, if his protection doesn't improve, how will his performance improve? Just a question of logic and not intended to be hate speech regarding Carr.
.............. -Sounds good.
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