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Old 07-24-2006   #1
D-Vizzl
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Default How much longer for Carr?

It just occured to me that if he does not do well this upcoming season I don't know which way to lean about him, so I want to know what you think, I'll explain. He has reasons that work in his favor to say give him beyond this year to get better, and things that don't. For example

1 CON is that he already has had 4 years to get something going and he has failed, on the other hand a PRO is that since their is a new coaching staff and offense, he does need time to get adjusted and comfortable with the system so it all seems to come out even on the scales.

Should David Carr rather he does well or not be given more than this year to prove himself? From your perspective
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Old 07-24-2006   #2
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He'll get at least 2 more seasons, to the joy and frustration of many on this MB.
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Old 07-24-2006   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Vizzl
It just occured to me that if he does not do well this upcoming season I don't know which way to lean about him, so I want to know what you think, I'll explain. He has reasons that work in his favor to say give him beyond this year to get better, and things that don't. For example

1 CON is that he already has had 4 years to get something going and he has failed, on the other hand a PRO is that since their is a new coaching staff and offense, he does need time to get adjusted and comfortable with the system so it all seems to come out even on the scales.

Should David Carr rather he does well or not be given more than this year to prove himself? From your perspective
Well you already know where I stand I'd imagine...THIS year is too much....the idea of giving him 6,7, or 8 years to "prove himself" is ridiculous to me...he doesn't get to restart the clock on his qb 3 year learning curve...unless we dont plan on winning until sometime around 2010
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Old 07-24-2006   #4
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Depends. Everyone's definition of "doing well" seems to vary, what's yours?

Mine generally, I'd like to see Carr head back to the middle of the pack, if not a little higher, in his stats like he had in years 2 & 3 (I think). I'd also like to see the team "rallying" around him - to the point that the O-line knows where he'll be so they can protect accordingly, the WR's know when to break a route if the blitz is coming (and that Carr can read the blitz). Also, I'd like to see that the O-coordintor has the faith to let Carr call some plays on the field as needed, or at least really communicate with Carr and the WR's to know what's happening on the field and adjust playcalling as needed.

That's the "doing well" I'd like to see.
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Old 07-24-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Vizzl
Should David Carr rather he does well or not be given more than this year to prove himself? From your perspective
If he has another year like last year, they need to ditch him which is going to be hard to do.

This year, I just need to see improvement. I need to see a positive TD/Int differential, the highest completion percentage of his career, and over 3000 yards.
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Old 07-24-2006   #6
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PencilNeck - he pretty much did that last year.

positive TD/int ratio - 14/11
highest completion ratio - 60.5% (just missed the previous year's highwater 61.2%)
missed 3000 yards by +/- 600 (had 3500+ in year 3)

nfl.com - Carr stats just as an fyi, not so much to call you out.
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Old 07-24-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A4toZ
Depends. Everyone's definition of "doing well" seems to vary, what's yours?

Mine generally, I'd like to see Carr head back to the middle of the pack, if not a little higher, in his stats like he had in years 2 & 3 (I think). I'd also like to see the team "rallying" around him - to the point that the O-line knows where he'll be so they can protect accordingly, the WR's know when to break a route if the blitz is coming (and that Carr can read the blitz). Also, I'd like to see that the O-coordintor has the faith to let Carr call some plays on the field as needed, or at least really communicate with Carr and the WR's to know what's happening on the field and adjust playcalling as needed.

That's the "doing well" I'd like to see.
For me I don't need to see 4800 yards I just want to see some high upside. He has to have at least a 2 to 1 TD to Int ratio, this says everything about decision making, and from my eyes he has to shake the fact that he believes he's going to get sacked, partner those with alot more aggressiveness in his downfield attack and he's a keeper.
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Old 07-24-2006   #8
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I believe that barring any sort of early injury (to Carr or to any other major part of the offense) I'll know what I need to about Carr by week 8 of this coming season.

I'm not a David Carr critic and frankly I think a lot of his most vocal critics aren't seeing all the factors that combine to make Carr what he has been for four seasons. I know to many people that makes me some kind of apologist for Carr but if you feel that way then that's ok. You have your opinions and I have mine. What I am not is ignorant to the fact that he's now been in the league (for better or worse) for 4 seasons. This is is his 5th year as a starting NFL QB and I expect him to pick up this offense as quickly as I would expect any 4th year veteran.

Call me an apologist if you want but I know that if he's struggling in weeks 8-10 but he's getting solid protection, a running game, and his targets are healthy then we have a problem. That's when we should be seeing things start to come together. Until "around" that time I'm just not going to debate the issue with anybody in any detail. There's no point in it.
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Old 07-24-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A4toZ
Depends. Everyone's definition of "doing well" seems to vary, what's yours?

Mine generally, I'd like to see Carr head back to the middle of the pack, if not a little higher, in his stats like he had in years 2 & 3 (I think). I'd also like to see the team "rallying" around him - to the point that the O-line knows where he'll be so they can protect accordingly, the WR's know when to break a route if the blitz is coming (and that Carr can read the blitz). Also, I'd like to see that the O-coordintor has the faith to let Carr call some plays on the field as needed, or at least really communicate with Carr and the WR's to know what's happening on the field and adjust playcalling as needed.

That's the "doing well" I'd like to see.
i want to see W's. Ben Rothlisberger was the best qb in the nfl last year. Why? because he won the most games. I don't care how he gets it done, but i want 8-10 wins or he should be gone.
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Old 07-24-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
I believe that barring any sort of early injury (to Carr or to any other major part of the offense) I'll know what I need to about Carr by week 8 of this coming season.

I'm not a David Carr critic and frankly I think a lot of his most vocal critics aren't seeing all the factors that combine to make Carr what he has been for four seasons. I know to many people that makes me some kind of apologist for Carr but if you feel that way then that's ok. You have your opinions and I have mine. What I am not is ignorant to the fact that he's now been in the league (for better or worse) for 4 seasons. This is is his 5th year as a starting NFL QB and I expect him to pick up this offense as quickly as I would expect any 4th year veteran.

Call me an apologist if you want but I know that if he's struggling in weeks 8-10 but he's getting solid protection, a running game, and his targets are healthy then we have a problem. That's when we should be seeing things start to come together. Until "around" that time I'm just not going to debate the issue with anybody in any detail. There's no point in it.
Totally understand, I'm sort of along those lines I just don't know how to emote it.
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Old 07-24-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swtbound07
i want to see W's. Ben Rothlisberger was the best qb in the nfl last year. Why? because he won the most games. I don't care how he gets it done, but i want 8-10 wins or he should be gone.

You get an A for the day. Good post.
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Old 07-24-2006   #12
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another.......Carr.......thread.

nuff said.
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Old 07-24-2006   #13
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I will give Carr 2 more seasons at the helm to prove his worth.. Why?.. well you have to factor the situation that he's in this year..

New Head Coach + New Playbook + New Offensive System + New Wide Reciever, all of this comes into play when you're judging a quaterback.. he's got a brand new Head Coach barking his ear, probably telling him... "Forget Everything That You've Learned In the Past 4 Years".. Then you have a whole new playbook to go over learn and master. All new hot routes, all new signals, all new terminology most likely. Then he has a brand new reciever that he has to become 1 with (Moulds) they have to get their timing down and get on the same page in every situation. Then you can't forget that he probably has a brand new line up front that has to gel together before things up there fall into place.

Cause no matter how much you practice and how much TC you're involved in, there is nothing like the REAL season where everything is FULL speed and he's not throwing against.. Buchannon or Earl or Brown.. he's throwing against Brian Dawkins, Bob Sanders, Sean Taylor, Roy Williams, Donovan Darius, Nate Clements and Eugene Wilson.

I'll give this season to get used to the system at real time speed of everything.. BUT I honestly dont expect anything less than 6 or 7 wins. Then next season everything should be clicking together for him and we should be making a SERIOUS run at the playoffs..

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Old 07-24-2006   #14
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Originally Posted by Titan "Tack" Fan
You get an A for the day. Good post.
Big Ben is an average QB at best. It's the team around him that got them to the bowl. You two look at it like if the QB isn't a total badass then he should be ditched.

Anyways, I'd at least give him until the end of 07 under the new staff before we start looking for QB.
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Old 07-24-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swtbound07
i want to see W's. Ben Rothlisberger was the best qb in the nfl last year. Why? because he won the most games. I don't care how he gets it done, but i want 8-10 wins or he should be gone.

so following that logic backwards, Tom Brady was the best QB in the NFL in 2004, 2003, & 2001, Brad Johnson was the best QB in the NFL in 2002, and Trent Dilfer was the best QB in the NFL in 2000 ....
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Old 07-24-2006   #16
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If Carr plays well....heck, let's give him a decade or so. If not, we need to look for a QB next year. Kubiak said we will go as far as Dave takes us, so this is a big year for DC.
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Old 07-24-2006   #17
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This year Carr actually has to read the darn thing, because he will use more then just pages 1-4. I have to say this year if we are 4-4 at the half way mark, Kubiak is a GOD, and keep evrybody you can, If we are 2-6, then it's time to look to replace anyone not in the top 20% of the league in their respected positions.
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Old 07-24-2006   #18
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Originally Posted by chuckm
so following that logic backwards, Tom Brady was the best QB in the NFL in 2004, 2003, & 2001, Brad Johnson was the best QB in the NFL in 2002, and Trent Dilfer was the best QB in the NFL in 2000 ....
Yep....you win, your good. kyle orton was great in chicago....whatever makes you win, thats all that really matters.
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Old 07-24-2006   #19
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saying if carr doesn't win x amount of games is the most retarded comment i have heard. If any of you have played football you will know it takes 11 on both sides of the ball to win a game. If one offensive linemen misses a block, the qb is sacked and the play is dead, if one corner blows a coverage, thats a touchdown for the other team, one kicker misses a fg in the last 20 seconds of a game, the other team gets possesion kneels it and wins. Carr has put up average numbers the past 3 years, throw carr in the mix with the steelers, i think the steelers would have two rings, i would take carr's speed over roethlisbergers, carr's arm. And people act like roethlisberger just threw his team on his back and won the superbowl, roethlisberger sucked in the SB game. The steelers ran the ball more than anyone last year...Thats like saying for the astros since their pitching took them to the world series last year that their hitting lineup is the greatest baseball has ever seen, our hitting is sub par, we just have awesome pitching, same goes for the steelers, he had a great WR, another good WR, a great offensive line, a great running game, one of the greatest running backs of all time, the best defensive in the nfl, and one of the best coaches. HOWEVER ben roethlisberger won them a superbowl.


Don't get me wrong Ben Roethlisberger is a good player, but Great? No, is he the reason why they won? no.
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Old 07-24-2006   #20
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I think Kubes brought in Sage Rosenfels partly for this. Kubes likes Sage as a QB and has been a fan of him for a while.

http://subscribers.footballguys.com/...RoseSa00-1.php

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New Coach Gary Kubiak has a high opinion of the former Dolphin stating he “has the ability in this league to be a starter some day and to be a fine quarterback”.
I think that in the coach's mind, if the one QB doesn't work out, then he has Sage to fill in next season. The Texans would then be looking for a rookie QB to train up.


I think the only reason Sage would be starting would be if DC really tanked this year and showed no promise whatsoever.
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