Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-22-2006   #1
Wolf
100% Texan
 
Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kerrville
Age: 44
Posts: 37,473
Rep Power: 122990 Wolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Denver's offensive philosophy:How O-line spells success or failure

Quote:
How O-Lines Spell Success or Failure

By ALLEN BARRA
November 22, 2004

Offensive lines of successful teams are usually constructed around a coach's philosophy. As a rule, predominantly passing teams have larger offensive lines - nowadays, these players tend to average between 300 to 325 pounds - whereas predominantly running teams feature smaller, quicker front walls that weigh in at about 280 to 290 a man.

The Denver Broncos' offensive line fits in the latter category, and to most NFL fans, the Broncos' 10 seasons under Mike Shanahan are defined by great running performances - by Terrell Davis (in the 1997 and 1998 Super Bowl years), Clinton Portis (traded before the season to the Washington Redskins), and now, Reuben Droughns. But the Broncos, more than any other team, exemplify the tradition of Bill Walsh, the man credited with popularizing the so-called West Coast offense. Shanahan, who was Walsh's offensive coordinator in San Francisco, knew that offense better than anyone. Like Walsh's, Shanahan's offensive lines tend to be relatively light and quick, the kind that are supposed to be conducive to "running" offenses. Yet, in terms of passing efficiency, which is really what Walsh's 49er offenses were about, Shanahan's front fives are near perfect.

The Broncos' running game, in terms of both yards gained and yards per rush, is almost always among the best in the league, but its success owes a lot to the passing game's efficiency. For instance, in a 34-13 pasting of the New Orleans Saints yesterday, Jake Plummer passed for 224 yards on just 29 throws for an average of 7.7 yards. His New Orleans counterpart, Aaron Brooks, passed for more yards, 377, but it took him 60 throws to do it and it cost him four sacks and three interceptions (Plummer had no sacks or interceptions).

Denver's passing game is efficient because Shanahan knows exactly what he wants from it. His philosophy, like Walsh's, is almost always to pass early and run late


yes I know it is a 2004 article.. and yes it does talk about Denver, but as I am reading, I am replacing Shanahan in the article with Kubiak and Denver with houston

Quote:
The drawback of the Walsh-Shanahan philosophy is that a smallish offensive line can take a pounding if forced to confine itself to pass blocking after falling behind early. That happened to the Broncos three games ago, when Michael Vick went wild and the Falcons put up 41 points on them. But no matter its deficiencies, Shanahan's game plan is at least a plan, and he has selected players with the proper talents to implement it.
http://www.nysun.com/article/5212
Wolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006   #2
Wolf
100% Texan
 
Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kerrville
Age: 44
Posts: 37,473
Rep Power: 122990 Wolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

we are looking at possible

LT

Wand 6'7 327
spencer 6'4 352
Bedell 6'4 318
sallaam 6'7 300


LG
Pitts 6'3 320
louvern 6'3 299

C

Flannigan 6'5 301
Hodgen 6'3 309

RG

McKinney 6'4 302

RT

weigart 6'5 309
Winston 6'7 310


http://www.houstontexans.com/team/ro...n=TH%20Players

I know I am missing some people , will edit accordingly

Last edited by Wolf; 07-22-2006 at 03:24 PM.
Wolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006   #3
Wolf
100% Texan
 
Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kerrville
Age: 44
Posts: 37,473
Rep Power: 122990 Wolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

we definitely aren't in the below 300 pound range.. for running(according to article)..
Wolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006   #4
Wolf
100% Texan
 
Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kerrville
Age: 44
Posts: 37,473
Rep Power: 122990 Wolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
5. Game plan. According to every single friggin' announcer that covers Broncos football, Shanahan scripts the first 15 plays of each game. The way they portray it is somewhat misleading. Shanahan is not going to call a running play off left guard if it's 3rd and 25 just because it's the #3 play on his list. What they do is identify 15 plays that are specific for down and distance. Those fifteen plays are based on film that the coaching staff watches every week and are designed to take advantage of defensive tendencies. Not only do those first 15 plays take advantage of the defenses tendencies, they run them to see how the defense reacts to them.

If you watch closely you will see that the Broncos almost always put a man in motion to give Jake, the WR's, O-line and the back a pre-snap read of what to expect post-snap. Almost every game it's a different guy in motion. That motion man is keyed to the defensive scheme and more often than not tells the offense exactly what the defense will do. In order for the Broncos offense to continue to roll I think they will have to become more diverse. As I said earlier this team needs to get out early in order to keep the game plan intact.

Prediction: Dont be suprised to see some new wrinkles the last four weeks. The Bradlee Van_Pelt play in week 13 shows that Shanahan is always likely to be innovative. I would expect to see them motion Bell out of the backfield more often into a five wide set with Rod Smith, Ashley Lelie, Todd Devoe and Charlie Adams. You also might see them shift to that by splitting Jeb Putzier out. That would almost certainly get either Bell or Putzier one on one with a linebacker
http://broncos.scout.com/2/477000.html

wasn't it Kubiak calling the shots?

wow 3 and 25.. I am not sure what we will do. I am so used to a run up the middle on that down and distance


Quote:
Smith's big play designed on the go
MIAMI (AP) - The Denver Broncos have so much faith in their offense that they can design plays on the fly and turn them into gamebreakers.

That's precisely what they did on John Elway's 80-yard touchdown pass to Rod Smith late in the second quarter of Sunday's Super Bowl.

''That play wasn't even in the game plan,'' said Smith, who blew past safety Eugene Robinson to catch Elway's long pass, then sped to the end zone for the second-longest TD from scrimmage in Super Bowl history. ''We put it in on the sideline just before we did it.

''It was going to be the first play out of the shoot. It didn't matter when we got the ball, even if they scored.''

The Falcons didn't score as Morten Andersen missed a 26-yard field goal that could have made it 10-6. With the ball at the 20, it was time for the drawn-up play, dubbed ''Keeper X-Post.''

''The coaches upstairs saw some tendencies and called the play,'' Smith said. ''They said, 'You can get open to the post.' The cornerback let me go and once I was on top of (Robinson). I knew I would beat him and the football would be there
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/footb...atl/bron12.htm

Maybe Carr will start having fun if the coaches have confidence in him

Last edited by Wolf; 07-22-2006 at 03:38 PM.
Wolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006   #5
Runner
Hubcap Diamond
 
Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,878
Rep Power: 63868 Runner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf
we are looking at possible

LT

Wand 6'7 327
spencer 6'4 352
Bedell 6'4 318
sallaam 6'7 300


LG
Pitts 6'3 320
louvern 6'3 299

C

Flannigan 6'5 301
Hodgen 6'3 309

RG

McKinney 6'4 302

RT

weigart 6'5 309
Winston 6'7 310


http://www.houstontexans.com/team/ro...n=TH%20Players

I know I am missing some people , will edit accordingly
Wand and Pitts will both be closer to 310-315 come gameday - if they aren't already. There is no way that Spencer plays at 350+ pounds. 325???
__________________
Amy glances out the window; her hair, skin, and clothes take on a pronounced reddish tinge from Doppler effect as she drops out of the conversation at relativistic velocity. - Cryptonomicon
Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006   #6
Wolf
100% Texan
 
Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kerrville
Age: 44
Posts: 37,473
Rep Power: 122990 Wolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

yeah, when I saw that on the website.. I was like WOW!

and looking at all the guys we have suprised me on their weight and stuff, I am not saying the guys we have are slobs, I thought their weight would be down in the 280-300 range
Wolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2006   #7
Grid
Hall of Fame
 
Grid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,299
Rep Power: 2272 Grid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respectedGrid is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

MOST offensive linemen are in the low 300s (300-310lbs).. the offensive linemen that Denver uses are "special order".. you dont find alot of high profile linemen in the draft that are in the 280lb range.. most of those guys go on the second day.

You also dont see many teams in the league that use linemen that small..

lets look at some running teams around the league and the weights of their linemen.

Chargers: 291, 295, 310, 304, 329, 311, 312, 317, 320, 336, 305, 323

Chiefs: 310, 310, 310, 310, 302, 310, 290, 293, 301, 321, 320, 310, 320, 315, 300, 320, 310, 285

Seahawks: 325, 297, 309, 305, 305, 308, 301, 295, 310, 308, 330, 327, 305

Bears: 295, 301, 329, 307, 318, 300, 295, 300, 330, 295, 320, 335, 315, 318, 315

Steelers: 299, 254, 318, 296, 307, 324, 321, 295, 277, 315, 344, 319, 313, 307


As you can see.. the Denver olinemen arent a "strong running game thing".. they are just a "denver thing". Its how thier system works.. it is not an unwritten rule that you have to have small linemen to have a good running game.

One person theorized on here that maybe Denver used smaller linemen because of the elevation in Denver.. larger linemen maybe got tired too quickly. I dunno if thats true.. but that idea has at least as much credibility as this article's.

The size of our linemen is fine.. the important thing with the zone blocking is the speed and agility of the linemen.. and we have some fairly quick and agile guys.
Grid is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 07-22-2006   #8
Insideop
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: In the "Control Room"
Age: 59
Posts: 1,736
Rep Power: 11503 Insideop is a quality contributor and well respectedInsideop is a quality contributor and well respectedInsideop is a quality contributor and well respectedInsideop is a quality contributor and well respectedInsideop is a quality contributor and well respectedInsideop is a quality contributor and well respectedInsideop is a quality contributor and well respectedInsideop is a quality contributor and well respectedInsideop is a quality contributor and well respectedInsideop is a quality contributor and well respectedInsideop is a quality contributor and well respected
Default O-Line

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
As you can see.. the Denver olinemen arent a "strong running game thing".. they are just a "denver thing". Its how thier system works.. it is not an unwritten rule that you have to have small linemen to have a good running game.

One person theorized on here that maybe Denver used smaller linemen because of the elevation in Denver.. larger linemen maybe got tired too quickly. I dunno if thats true.. but that idea has at least as much credibility as this article's.

The size of our linemen is fine.. the important thing with the zone blocking is the speed and agility of the linemen.. and we have some fairly quick and agile guys.

I agree with everything you said here and I have also heard the same thing about Denver having the smaller linemen because of the altitude and the endurance issues with the players.

Good post Wolf! And, good follow up Grid! Thanks for the read!
Insideop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2006   #9
Wolf
100% Texan
 
Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kerrville
Age: 44
Posts: 37,473
Rep Power: 122990 Wolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respected
Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
MOST offensive linemen are in the low 300s (300-310lbs).. the offensive linemen that Denver uses are "special order".. you dont find alot of high profile linemen in the draft that are in the 280lb range.. most of those guys go on the second day.

You also dont see many teams in the league that use linemen that small..

lets look at some running teams around the league and the weights of their linemen.

Chargers: 291, 295, 310, 304, 329, 311, 312, 317, 320, 336, 305, 323

Chiefs: 310, 310, 310, 310, 302, 310, 290, 293, 301, 321, 320, 310, 320, 315, 300, 320, 310, 285

Seahawks: 325, 297, 309, 305, 305, 308, 301, 295, 310, 308, 330, 327, 305

Bears: 295, 301, 329, 307, 318, 300, 295, 300, 330, 295, 320, 335, 315, 318, 315

Steelers: 299, 254, 318, 296, 307, 324, 321, 295, 277, 315, 344, 319, 313, 307


As you can see.. the Denver olinemen arent a "strong running game thing".. they are just a "denver thing". Its how thier system works.. it is not an unwritten rule that you have to have small linemen to have a good running game.

One person theorized on here that maybe Denver used smaller linemen because of the elevation in Denver.. larger linemen maybe got tired too quickly. I dunno if thats true.. but that idea has at least as much credibility as this article's.

The size of our linemen is fine.. the important thing with the zone blocking is the speed and agility of the linemen.. and we have some fairly quick and agile guys.

very good analysis
Wolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2006   #10
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
 
CloakNNNdagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,331
Rep Power: 246198 CloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

There are players out there that at 250 pounds move as if their feet were planted in cement. There are others at 310 to 325+ that can wear cement boots, never miss a step and crush everything beneath their feet...........we have some of the latter.
CloakNNNdagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008   #11
Wolf
100% Texan
 
Wolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kerrville
Age: 44
Posts: 37,473
Rep Power: 122990 Wolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respectedWolf is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Denver's offensive philosophy:How O-line spells success or failure

somehow I stumbled on this and even though Alex Gibbs name isn't mentions (or I missed it).. and it is the offseason.. gives me something to read about
Wolf is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008   #12
awtysst
Draft Guru
 
awtysst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 7,611
Rep Power: 2603 awtysst is a quality contributor and well respectedawtysst is a quality contributor and well respectedawtysst is a quality contributor and well respectedawtysst is a quality contributor and well respectedawtysst is a quality contributor and well respectedawtysst is a quality contributor and well respectedawtysst is a quality contributor and well respectedawtysst is a quality contributor and well respectedawtysst is a quality contributor and well respectedawtysst is a quality contributor and well respectedawtysst is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Denver's offensive philosophy:How O-line spells success or failure

Wolf here is an update names are in alphabetical order not depth. I also didnt break it down because after a starter and primary backup U wasnt sure where everyone was.

we are looking at possible

Tackles
Black 6'5 310
Butler 6'4 293
Frye 6'4 302
salaam 6'7 302
spencer 6'4 337
Winston 6'5 307


Guards

Brisiel 6'5 310
Myers 6'4 295
Pitts 6'4 322
Stevenson 6'5 300
Studdard 6'2 310


Centers
Eslinger 6'3 290
McKinney 6'4 305
White 6'2 293

Potential starting lineup:

Salaam-Pitts-White-Brisiel-Winston

In that lineup only Pitts is significantly over 300 @322. All others are within 10 lbs(or under 300). Mean weight=306.8lbs

If Studdard came in for Pitts, then everyone is within 10lbs(or under 300) Mean weight= 304.4.

Clearly 2.4 lbs makes no difference. What we need are good lineman with good lateral movement.

Just for shits and giggles the 06 starting line mean weight was: 311.8 lbs.

Quick comparison: 06=311.8lbs vs 08=304.4-306.6lbs

Thus it is not the weight, but the lateral movement and overall talent that defines an O-Line and its effectiveness in the ZBS.
__________________
Draft Guru: 91.43% accuracy through first 35 picks from 2006-present

I'm Pro Fig Newton, not Cam Newton!
-awtysst on 4/28/2011

Last edited by awtysst; 03-20-2008 at 02:07 AM.
awtysst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008   #13
kiwitexansfan
Site Contributor
 
kiwitexansfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Age: 37
Posts: 9,434
Rep Power: 98483 kiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Denver's offensive philosophy:How O-line spells success or failure

Looking at '06 vs '08 in terms of personal we have available for our lines, you have to think the talent level is higher now than it was back then, at the very least I am more optimistic with the group we have now.
__________________
Season Prediction: WAS - W, @ OAK - W, @ NYG - W, BUF - W, @ DAL - W, IND - L, @ PIT - L, @ TEN - W, PHI - L, @ CLE - W, CIN - L, TEN - W, @ JAX - W, @ IND - L, BAL - L, JAX - W = 10-6
kiwitexansfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008   #14
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
 
CloakNNNdagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,331
Rep Power: 246198 CloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Denver's offensive philosophy:How O-line spells success or failure

In the past 4 years we can see NFL players getting larger and larger. As the DL size goes up, the need for staying somewhat "matched" requires a somewhat larger OL, especially since the NFL is growing "big men" that are maintaining mobility equivalent of the "smaller men" of old. Compensating alone for size (with quickness, speed, mobility, etc) can eventually only go so far towards avoiding the wearing out of the OL at the end of the game, no matter what the compensatory scheme may be. The need is to stay up with size as much as you can, at the same time as still excelling in mobility.
CloakNNNdagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008   #15
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 47
Posts: 48,532
Rep Power: 391357 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Denver's offensive philosophy:How O-line spells success or failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by awtysst View Post


Guards

Myers 6'4 295
Myers was brought in to play C and that is how they have him listed on the roster.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008   #16
Bubbajwp
All Flopper
 
Bubbajwp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: In the Warehouse
Age: 27
Posts: 3,213
Rep Power: 572 Bubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Denver's offensive philosophy:How O-line spells success or failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by awtysst View Post

Potential starting lineup:

Salaam-Pitts-White-Brisiel-Winston

In that lineup only Pitts is significantly over 300 @322. All others are within 10 lbs(or under 300). Mean weight=306.8lbs

If Studdard came in for Pitts, then everyone is within 10lbs(or under 300) Mean weight= 304.4.

Clearly 2.4 lbs makes no difference. What we need are good lineman with good lateral movement.

Just for shits and giggles the 06 starting line mean weight was: 311.8 lbs.

Quick comparison: 06=311.8lbs vs 08=304.4-306.6lbs

Thus it is not the weight, but the lateral movement and overall talent that defines an O-Line and its effectiveness in the ZBS.
I wonder how that compares to the rest of the NFL?
I also wonder what the highest mean weight for olines is in the NFL?
My guess Cowgirls.
__________________
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
Actually he is an A-Hole because he is an A-hole. just like a tiger is a tiger because he is a tiger.
Bubbajwp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008   #17
Bubbajwp
All Flopper
 
Bubbajwp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: In the Warehouse
Age: 27
Posts: 3,213
Rep Power: 572 Bubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respectedBubbajwp is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Denver's offensive philosophy:How O-line spells success or failure

I also wonder how that compares to the Bronco's mean weight? I'd look but im at school.
__________________
The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Specnatz View Post
Actually he is an A-Hole because he is an A-hole. just like a tiger is a tiger because he is a tiger.
Bubbajwp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008   #18
CloakNNNdagger
Hall of Fame
 
CloakNNNdagger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 16,331
Rep Power: 246198 CloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respectedCloakNNNdagger is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Denver's offensive philosophy:How O-line spells success or failure

The article although written the end of 2006 is a quite telling commentary on how the NFL has evolved weight wise in relation to time, performance, etc......especially as relates to Olinemen. The entire article is worth reviewing (like the Broncos OLineman who drank a gallon of water and put weight in his jock strap just to be able to weigh in at the minimum).:

Heavy pressure: NFL players struggle with weight game
Since the 1980s, NFL players have packed on the pounds, but is the league's emphasis on weight harmful?

By Carlos Frias, William M. Hartnett
Palm Beach Post Staff Writers

Sunday, October 29, 2006

Quote:
In the modern-day NFL, size does matter — at least if you want to keep earning a paycheck.

By compiling a database of NFL rosters dating to 1920 — nearly 40,000 players — The Post tracked the size of players decade-by-decade and team-by-team.

From 1920 to 1984, there were never more than eight players in any season who weighed 300 pounds or more. This year, there were 570 players who weighed 300 or more listed on 2006 NFL training camp rosters, nearly 20 percent of all players.

Other super-sized findings:

Z Since the NFL-AFL merger in 1970, the average player is nearly 25 pounds heavier, averaging 245.

Z Over the same period, the average offensive lineman is 62 pounds heavier; defensive lineman, 34 pounds.

Z Running backs weigh 17 pounds more and quarterbacks are 26 pounds heavier.

Coaches, players, analysts and doctors say there are many reasons for the increases in size: the natural progression by generations; better nutrition; supplements; illegal substances, including steroids, which the league began testing for in 1987, and untested drugs like human growth hormone; workout regiments that now begin in high school.

But what has maintained the trend toward bigger and bigger players is the league's copycat tendencies — what works well for one team will soon be tried by many others.

Quote:
"Whatever is in vogue, that's what the league goes for," Schlereth said. "The league saw these incredible athletes, who were huge men, and decided this is the way to go — bigger is better."

That mantra trickled down to the college and high school level, where massive linemen no longer were born but bloated up on extra cheeseburgers and shakes.

Aspiring prep tight ends, defensive ends and linebackers "ate their way to being offensive linemen,'' Schlereth said.

In 1980, offensive linemen outweighed their teammates by 45 pounds. In 2006, the difference is about the weight of one Olsen twin — 81 pounds.

Schlereth fought to keep up. In Denver, he was issued a minimum weight of 285 pounds and fined $100 for each pound short on weigh-in day.
Quote:
"Truth is, bigger isn't better. Better is better," Schlereth said.

Research supports Schlereth's claim.

Since 1980, the two teams with the highest winning percentages — the San Francisco 49ers and Denver — had the lightest offensive lines.

Of the five teams with the biggest offensive lines over the past 25 years, only one franchise — the Raiders — has won more games than it has lost.

When Indianapolis Colts President Bill Polian kept hearing coaches talk about the importance of size, he decided to put the theory to a test, comparing winning percentages to the average weight of players on each team over about 10 seasons.

"We found higher weight had no bearing on winning — none," said Polian, who was the general manager in Buffalo when the Bills played in four Super Bowls. "There was a lot of noise about 'Big is the answer.' We tested it. It's not valid."
CloakNNNdagger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008   #19
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 47
Posts: 48,532
Rep Power: 391357 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Denver's offensive philosophy:How O-line spells success or failure

Quote:
"Truth is, bigger isn't better. Better is better," Schlereth said.

Research supports Schlereth's claim.

Of the five teams with the biggest offensive lines over the past 25 years, only one franchise — the Raiders — has won more games than it has lost.
Hmmm, maybe selective research. The dominant '90's Cowboys clearly won more games than they lost--101 to 59. That was when their OL was huge and gave up the least number of sacks in a decade. 25 years is too long a time period for this kind of examination--clearly not the same players or even coaches and systems in most instances.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-20-2008   #20
Lucky
Moderator
 
Lucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 13,336
Rep Power: 191859 Lucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Re: Denver's offensive philosophy:How O-line spells success or failure

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak View Post
Hmmm, maybe selective research. The dominant '90's Cowboys clearly won more games than they lost--101 to 59.
Mark Stepnoski was a smallish Center, and may have brought the Cowboys avg. weight down. The rest of their line was massive.
__________________
“We’re looking for a coach that...works with great energy and enthusiasm and very positive in his approach.” - Bob McNair
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger