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Old 07-21-2006   #1
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Originally Posted by ESPN
Seth Wand versus Charles Spencer (Houston Texans, left offensive tackle): The Texans have allowed a mind-boggling 229 sacks in their four-year existence. First-year coach Gary Kubiak hired Mike Sherman to fix the longstanding offensive line woes, and the former Green Bay head coach has responded by enacting a musical-chairs approach. As currently projected, not a single starter will line up at the spot he played in 2005. That, for quarterback David Carr, represents the good news. The bad news is that the key left tackle spot, where pass-rushers have poured through as if it was a turnstile, still must be addressed. Wand has started 18 games in three seasons, including all 16 contests in 2004, and his performance was adjudged, somewhat mercifully, as uneven. Spencer, a third-round draft choice, has played on the offensive side of the ball just two seasons, including only one year at left tackle. He might not win the job outright in camp, but the sense is that Spencer could oust Wand during the season.
I read this on ESPN and thought it was interesting.
First the battle between Spencer and Wand for left Tackle. Although they say it is not going to be good for the Texans, He thinks that Spencer will take it from Wand by mid-season. I disagree. Wand is as much a project as Spfencer, If they think Spencer was the better prospect then thwy would pencil him in. It will take just as much work to get Wand ready as Spencer I think they see both as being excellent prospects but Wand as a litttle better. My question would be why is Winston not in the mix? If he is healthy he is a better prospect then Spencer.

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Jeff Posey versus Mario Haggan (Buffalo Bills, strongside linebacker): Although he has been a steady defender for the Bills over the last three seasons, Posey never has quite lived up to expectations, as noted by just 9˝ sacks during his Buffalo tenure. Haggan hasn't been much more than a special teams player but, with a new staff and a new scheme, he could challenge the incumbent. At 248 pounds, Haggan is the bigger of the two and it's time for him to step up his game or be little more than a "lifer" on the kick coverage teams. The wild card in the equation is Angelo Crowell, who played remarkably in 2005 when an Achilles injury forced Pro Bowl weakside linebacker Takeo Spikes onto injured reserve. There are some questions about whether Crowell could move to the strong side and be effective there. But new staffs are prone to shake things up and the sound Posey hears in the background might be a few younger players gaining ground on him.
On this one I just wanted to note that Posey never lived up to the big contract he recieved and all the slack the Texans caught for letting him go was wong.
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Old 07-21-2006   #2
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Originally Posted by done88
My question would be why is Winston not in the mix? If he is healthy he is a better prospect then Spencer.
Maybe the answer is that "if he (Winston) is healthy he is not a better prospect than Spencer".
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Old 07-21-2006   #3
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Maybe the answer is that "if he (Winston) is healthy he is not a better prospect than Spencer".
I think Winston fits more of a Rt side tackle. Am I wrong here?
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Old 07-21-2006   #4
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Originally Posted by HOU-TEX
I think Winston fits more of a Rt side tackle. Am I wrong here?
I'd want him on the strong side for running plays.
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Old 07-21-2006   #5
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Winston is in the mix if he is more ready to play than both of them. Winston right now is the better prospect, but due to Winston's athleticsm they want him on the right. That is not saying he is not athletic, it is saying they need a guy who can move on the right side which is the side they are prone to move toward. Winston is better suited to move with Carr and any RB to that side, and since Carr is right handed he fits better on that side. Winston out of the second team guys has looked the best and he performed well when put with the first team on occasion. Spencer has also gotten great reviews because he is strong as an ox and has demonstrated it repeatedly. Only problem is speed rushers i.e. Mario and Peek have eaten him up when they have gotten the chance on him. Spencer though in one OTA practice did stand up Babin and Malone by himself which was overly impressive. Wand and Weigert will be hard pressed to keep these two young guys on the bench and as Texan fans we should be getting real excited because it looks like we stole two bookends in the third.
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Old 07-21-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOU-TEX
I think Winston fits more of a Rt side tackle. Am I wrong here?
I don't know - it is still too early to tell (for me anyway). With our right handed QB and roll-out offense we might look for more mobility in a right tackle than most offenses. I do think everyone should try to remember that Spencer is pretty raw and not be too disappointed if he isn't a pro-bowler this year.

Realistically, Winston and Spencer are early 3rd round tackles that probably need some seasoning. I hope we fans take this into account. If either of them don't excel after a year or even two, that's OK as long as they are competent and geting better. Instant results are hard to come by at their positions; the NFL is quite different from college - especially for tackles.

Let's look into the future two years for a sample of posts if they haven't broken into the starting line-up or struggled:

Swami hat on.

Why did we take Winston? He's been hurt before! Didn't the front office learn anything after the Joppru experience?

Spencer? What were the coaches thinking? He only had two year of o-line experience! Couldn't they tell he would be a bust?

Swami hat off.

I trust we won't see this.


Now I want to be clear on this. I think both of these players have a far greater chance of success than failure. It might take a year or so, but I expect them both to be key parts of our line as the team evolves over the next 1-3 seasons.
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Old 07-21-2006   #7
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Originally Posted by Coach C.
Spencer has also gotten great reviews because he is strong as an ox and has demonstrated it repeatedly. Only problem is speed rushers i.e. Mario and Peek have eaten him up when they have gotten the chance on him. Spencer though in one OTA practice did stand up Babin and Malone by himself which was overly impressive.
Spencer will probably learn how to deal with speed rushers as he gains more experience. That being said, how do you think Spencer would look at guard, given his strength and footwork?
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Old 07-21-2006   #8
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Runner Spencer would be a nice guard, but not sure in this system. His footwork is good, but I would not trust him just yet to get to the second level and back side. Now if he was with the Seahawks he likely would be the perfect LG to put next to Walter Jones. Like you are saying when he gets experience he should be a monster at the LT position. His lateral quickness is good, but when he opens his hips he does not close the gate fast enough if you understand that term. I personally would not play him at G unless I had to. If it came to that I would likely move Pitts out to LT insert Weigert to LG and then play Winston at RT. Hopefully our line stays healthy though and we dont have to do all that flip flopping.
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Old 07-21-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach C.
Runner Spencer would be a nice guard, but not sure in this system. His footwork is good, but I would not trust him just yet to get to the second level and back side. Now if he was with the Seahawks he likely would be the perfect LG to put next to Walter Jones. Like you are saying when he gets experience he should be a monster at the LT position. His lateral quickness is good, but when he opens his hips he does not close the gate fast enough if you understand that term. I personally would not play him at G unless I had to. If it came to that I would likely move Pitts out to LT insert Weigert to LG and then play Winston at RT. Hopefully our line stays healthy though and we dont have to do all that flip flopping.
I was thinking more in terms of the 2007-2008 seasons when we start losing vets like McKinney and Weigert. Injuries may accelerate that to this year though. ugh.

There is the chance that Wand will be successful in this system. Swallow hard, close your eyes, and accept that premise for this post. If that occurs, a season after this we may see a line that includes Wand, Pitts, Spencer, and Winston. I was wondering what we do if we ended up with three (3!) quality tackles. Talk about a personality change for the Texans.
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Old 07-21-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach C.
Winston is in the mix if he is more ready to play than both of them. Winston right now is the better prospect, but due to Winston's athleticsm they want him on the right. That is not saying he is not athletic, it is saying they need a guy who can move on the right side which is the side they are prone to move toward. Winston is better suited to move with Carr and any RB to that side, and since Carr is right handed he fits better on that side.
Maybe I don't understand how o-line play works as well as I thought, but don't you want your athletic guys on the left because that lines them up against the more athletic DEs? I understand that Winston and Spencer are both athletic, so either one would fit at LT but if Winston is more athletic I'd rather see him try to mirror Dwight Freeney while Spencer matches up with the bigger, stronger guy on the other side. Am I wrong?
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Old 07-21-2006   #11
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the LT needs strength leverage and long arms and is the anchor. he ties up the speed rusher holds his ground. the right tackle has to be more mobile cuz he slides over matching the point of attack and gives the qb an egress lane by forcing the LE inside where the right guard can help out. this is pure pass blocking and completely changes on running plays. this is my observation anyway.
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Old 07-22-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK_Gamer
the LT needs strength leverage and long arms and is the anchor. he ties up the speed rusher holds his ground. the right tackle has to be more mobile cuz he slides over matching the point of attack and gives the qb an egress lane by forcing the LE inside where the right guard can help out. this is pure pass blocking and completely changes on running plays. this is my observation anyway.
"Tying up the speed rushers" sounds like a job for the most athletic tackle you have, but again - I'm no expert. I just always hear about players coming into the draft being athletic enough to play LT or possibly having to move inside or to RT.
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Old 07-22-2006   #13
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If you ask any rookie what the difference is between college and the pros they will tell you the speed. Spencer may be athletic, good foot work etc., but he hasn't seen the speed of defenses in the NFL. If they put him in at left tackle say goodbye to Carr. Winston will take longer to adjust to the NFL. He had a very average senior year if you watched any of his games and didn't play too well in the Senior Bowl. He is still trying to get over his injuries, could be he can't get the fear of injury out of his mind. Just my opinion. I also think his ego is getting in the way of his signing a contract, thinks he should have been drafted higher.
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Old 07-22-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFD1717
"Tying up the speed rushers" sounds like a job for the most athletic tackle you have, but again - I'm no expert. I just always hear about players coming into the draft being athletic enough to play LT or possibly having to move inside or to RT.
the right tackle has to be strong and quick, but the LT needs a rare combination of athletic skills strength, footwork, quickness, agility, and i guess the hardest being leverage and technique, thats why mediocre LT's move to RT or guard. the leverage and technique in combination with footwork allows them to "tie up" the speed rusher without being forced to turn their body and grabbing the defender drawing a holding call. I guess this cobination of skills is so rare its almost genetic.
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Old 07-22-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TK_Gamer
the right tackle has to be strong and quick, but the LT needs a rare combination of athletic skills strength, footwork, quickness, agility, and i guess the hardest being leverage and technique, thats why mediocre LT's move to RT or guard. the leverage and technique in combination with footwork allows them to "tie up" the speed rusher without being forced to turn their body and grabbing the defender drawing a holding call. I guess this cobination of skills is so rare its almost genetic.
So a good RT is athletic and a good LT is just a plain freak. I get it.

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Old 07-22-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFD1717
So a good RT is athletic and a good LT is just a plain freak. I get it.

Thanks.
That also somewhat depends on the offensive system. Obviously for a left handed QB you're likely going to switch those two so your RT is protecting the QB's blind side, but some offenses also change things around (i.e. it looks like Winston is our RT because he's more athletic and they won't to move the pocket outside to the right side more often so they'd prefer the more athletic Winston out there.
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Old 07-23-2006   #17
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How do you know that Winston is so athletic? From reports from fans? Watching film? Know someone? Just curious.
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Old 07-23-2006   #18
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One other comment, I know he is large but size has its disadvantages. Not only that but most of the techniques used are different than what these guys are used to using in the college game. Alot of lineman have a hard time adjusting.
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Old 07-23-2006   #19
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Winston was supposed to be a first round pick and the #2 offensive lineman taken atleast until he got injured and even still he was projected late first-early second when we snatched him in the third. We've got first round talent out of the pick of Eric Winston and once he shows he has fully recovered from his passed injury (if he still hasn't already) get ready to see him play like a first round talent.
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Old 07-23-2006   #20
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The one Im gonna be intrigued to see is the 3 WR spot, is Walters gonna play there or will Derick Armstrong
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