Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-13-2006   #1
WiiBrawler
WiiMan
 
WiiBrawler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: The H.O.V Lane
Age: 27
Posts: 701
Rep Power: 11 WiiBrawler is on the Pro-Bowl ballotWiiBrawler is on the Pro-Bowl ballot
Send a message via MSN to WiiBrawler Send a message via Yahoo to WiiBrawler Send a message via Skype™ to WiiBrawler
Default How will Carr have to prove himself to Houston?

Our offseason has been revolving around fixing our team,getting pieces to the 4-3 defense,and giving Carr the weapons he needs to suceed.

.We got Kevin Walter for a seventh round pick, not exaclty an upgrade from last year but still good.

.We got a veteran receiver in Eric Moulds who take the heat of AJ

.We've fixed our offensive line by getting a great center in Mike Flangan,moving McKinney to Guard where he belongs,we've picked up Eric Winston and Charles Spencer.

. And We got the perfect coach to get him over the hump with Gary Kubiak.

Now that he has all the weapons how will he have to prove himself so we can know that made the right move in picking up his option over Drafting Vince Young

Here is what he has to do in my mind:

He will have to make fewer mistakes, give the city something to be excited about like passing the game-winning touchdown at the end of regulation, or he will have to get us back from like 14 down or somthing, but the most important thing is he will have to lead us to the playoffs in 2 years, the city has been waiting for something to cheer about, he has 4 years of experience and the city is getting impatient.

What do you guys think?
__________________

Sig By Michaelm
Formerly Carr2Johnson
WiiBrawler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #2
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
 
swtbound07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Tampa, Florida
Age: 29
Posts: 9,474
Rep Power: 904 swtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

He has a year in my book..i didnt want to give it to him, but we've been given no choice. He needs to stop sacking himself, he needs to buy himself time in the pocket, and he needs to stop locking onto recievers and making bad decisions with the football.
__________________

Sig by Michaelm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Maher
"I'll show you Obama's birth certificate when you show me Sarah Palin's high school diploma"
swtbound07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #3
texan279
Hall of Fame
 
texan279's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Rosenberg TX
Age: 35
Posts: 5,624
Rep Power: 3367 texan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respectedtexan279 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

We should start to see SOME improvement by the middle of the season, but I am giving him this full season and maybe the first half of next season to see a big improvement, and that is due to the new coaches and players. Not only that but Kubiak seems to be giving the team as a whole a clean slate to start with.
texan279 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #4
real
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I think he just has to win...If Carr is just a mediocre QB, but wins...people won't be calling for his head
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #5
FSUBulldog
Rookie
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Age: 41
Posts: 20
Rep Power: 0 FSUBulldog is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr2Johnson
Our offseason has been revolving around fixing our team,getting pieces to the 4-3 defense,and giving Carr the weapons he needs to suceed.

.We got Kevin Walter for a seventh round pick, not exaclty an upgrade from last year but still good.

.We got a veteran receiver in Eric Moulds who take the heat of AJ

.We've fixed our offensive line by getting a great center in Mike Flangan,moving McKinney to Guard where he belongs,we've picked up Eric Winston and Charles Spencer.

. And We got the perfect coach to get him over the hump with Gary Kubiak.

Now that he has all the weapons how will he have to prove himself so we can know that made the right move in picking up his option over Drafting Vince Young

Here is what he has to do in my mind:

He will have to make fewer mistakes, give the city something to be excited about like passing the game-winning touchdown at the end of regulation, or he will have to get us back from like 14 down or somthing, but the most important thing is he will have to lead us to the playoffs in 2 years, the city has been waiting for something to cheer about, he has 4 years of experience and the city is getting impatient.

What do you guys think?
Before stating my position, here's a list of qualifying statements regarding Carr:

1) It's well-documented that Carr has received little support on the offensive line and in the skill positions during his first four years in the league. This has hampered his growth as well as his confidence level to-date.

2) Given statement #1, he performance has fluctuated between "really good" and "mediocre" during this period. The Ram game last year ("really good") vs. the repeated times he's run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage.

3) He's a physically tough individual who has shown an amazing chin given the number of times he has been leveled in his career.

4) I'm a Fresno State alum who has watched him since his first start in college and every game of his Texans career. While I have a normal bias towards wanting to see him succeed, I can remain objective regarding a player from my hometown. ("No, Trent Dilfer was never a star QB, even in college" and "No, Billy Volek doesn't have more upside than Vince Young")

All that said, I fail to see how anything short of a playoff and a Pro Bowl appearance by DC this year will calm the rumbling about him as the Texans starting QB. Maybe there is a large undercurrent of fans who really support him, but based on my readings, they are generally not on this board. If he does lead the Texans to the playoffs and earns a PB spot, he would be "tolerated", not "accepted" by the Houston faithful.

I'm just not sure he can realistically live up to the expectations of the masses at this point. While I hate to say this, the more I read the more I realize that a change of scenery might be the most fair thing for DC at this point in his career. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I've just been reading this MB too much this offseason, and maybe the voices I keep hearing are the vocal minority, but when I look at what it will take for DC to be accepted here, I wonder if the expectation is at all realistic given the past four years of mediocracy that has surrounded this team and city.
FSUBulldog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #6
the wonger need food
Hall of Fame
 
the wonger need food's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston
Age: 45
Posts: 2,562
Rep Power: 1340 the wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Overall, the bar is pretty low for Big Dave. If he looks good with his shirt off that will be enough for a lot of people. If he can look like an actual NFL QB for more than a few plays at a time, and win games, that will be good enough for me.
the wonger need food is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #7
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
 
swtbound07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Tampa, Florida
Age: 29
Posts: 9,474
Rep Power: 904 swtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSUBulldog
Before stating my position, here's a list of qualifying statements regarding Carr:

1) It's well-documented that Carr has received little support on the offensive line and in the skill positions during his first four years in the league. This has hampered his growth as well as his confidence level to-date.

2) Given statement #1, he performance has fluctuated between "really good" and "mediocre" during this period. The Ram game last year ("really good") vs. the repeated times he's run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage.

3) He's a physically tough individual who has shown an amazing chin given the number of times he has been leveled in his career.

4) I'm a Fresno State alum who has watched him since his first start in college and every game of his Texans career. While I have a normal bias towards wanting to see him succeed, I can remain objective regarding a player from my hometown. ("No, Trent Dilfer was never a star QB, even in college" and "No, Billy Volek doesn't have more upside than Vince Young")

All that said, I fail to see how anything short of a playoff and a Pro Bowl appearance by DC this year will calm the rumbling about him as the Texans starting QB. Maybe there is a large undercurrent of fans who really support him, but based on my readings, they are generally not on this board. If he does lead the Texans to the playoffs and earns a PB spot, he would be "tolerated", not "accepted" by the Houston faithful.

I'm just not sure he can realistically live up to the expectations of the masses at this point. While I hate to say this, the more I read the more I realize that a change of scenery might be the most fair thing for DC at this point in his career. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I've just been reading this MB too much this offseason, and maybe the voices I keep hearing are the vocal minority, but when I look at what it will take for DC to be accepted here, I wonder if the expectation is at all realistic given the past four years of mediocracy that has surrounded this team and city.
Really good and mediocre? Please. He has fluctuated between piss poor and substandard, and has shown 2 flashes of above average in his career, st. louis and some of arizona. You can say it was the line, and say it was the skill positions all you like, but the reality is eventually some of the onus for his performance has to be on him.
__________________

Sig by Michaelm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Maher
"I'll show you Obama's birth certificate when you show me Sarah Palin's high school diploma"
swtbound07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 06-13-2006   #8
real
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Arrow xtru

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSUBulldog
Before stating my position, here's a list of qualifying statements regarding Carr:

2) Given statement #1, he performance has fluctuated between "really good" and "mediocre" during this period. The Ram game last year ("really good") vs. the repeated times he's run out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage..
Try the range of Mediocre to Very Poor...


Quote:
Originally Posted by FSUBulldog
If he does lead the Texans to the playoffs and earns a PB spot, he would be "tolerated", not "accepted" by the Houston faithful .
Good Point...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FSUBulldog
I look at what it will take for DC to be accepted here.
There are going to be some people who will ride DC forever...Some because they didn't want him from day one...and some because we didn't get vince...DC is probably never going to have overwhelming support in Houston unless he saves some kids from a fire or something...I personally don't Care for Carr as a player, but I think that he can win for us....Now having said all that I would love for Carr to prove me wrong and show why he was the #1 pick...
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #9
Eyeguy
Veteran
 
Eyeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 251
Rep Power: 10 Eyeguy is ridin' the pine
Default

He must first stay healthy. A major injury to Carr will effect this team more than any other player on the roster. The loss of D. Rob would be 2nd
__________________
"Nothing is more important than doing what it takes to win games" B. McNair
Eyeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #10
real
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeguy
He must first stay healthy.
Watch many Texan Games ?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #11
Double Barrel
Modified Simian
 
Double Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Onward, Upward, and back into the Trees
Section: Gridiron, Tx
Age: 48
Posts: 30,946
Rep Power: 324753 Double Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Hey, hey, another Carr thread. Haven't seen one of these around in...ohhh...a few minutes.

Carr will have to prove himself by making more plays than mistakes. Over 20 sacks last year were the result of his decisions. So he'll need to learn to get rid of the ball to avoid the sack.

In addition, he'll need to be able to read defenses and make adjustments accordingly. I'm sure Kubiak will give him more than just dump passes for options, so the verdict is out if he'll succeed in this area.

Another concern is his tendency to lock onto receivers. Of course, having protection is a big part of the time required to see other receiving options, so this will be something that he'll learn as he begins to trust his line.

I'd say proving himself to Houston fans would be 3,000+ yards passing, 20+ TDs, 10- INTs, 20- sacks.

I can't pin win/loss records or playoff appearances on one man, considering it's a team sport. But individual stats might shed some light on his progress.
__________________
"Football is only a diversion." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS
Double Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #12
Vinny
shiny happy fan
 
Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 50
Posts: 21,844
Rep Power: 161784 Vinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyeguy
He must first stay healthy. A major injury to Carr will effect this team more than any other player on the roster. The loss of D. Rob would be 2nd
We really haven't struggled when Carr has been on the sideline. Even an awful QB like Banks kept us in games (and won some) the few times Carr has been out.
__________________
http://twitter.com/#!/TexansTalk


"A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves" - Edward R. Murrow
Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #13
Tex Trenches
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 122
Rep Power: 9 Tex Trenches is a fan favorite
Default

He just needs to absorb everything Kubiak is feeding him and everything will fall into place, or should I say fall into the hands of his respected targets. His skill level still puts him in the upper echelon of NFL quaterbacks. So if he just takes what the defenses are giving him I think the skies the limit for David this year. A pro bowl apperance is surely within reach this year. As a matter of fact, if I was a betting man I would be banking on it.
__________________
It's where the game is won.
Tex Trenches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #14
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,819
Rep Power: 14626 El Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I think he will need to lead some come from behind wins, and demonstrate some flawlessness in alot more games.

He's already proven his toughness so that isn't something we need to see.

To be honest with you I would like to see him play the way he did in the second half against Minnesota.
El Tejano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #15
hollywood_texan
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 44
Posts: 3,021
Rep Power: 1649 hollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respectedhollywood_texan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I think Carr can prove himself in one of two ways next year:

1. The Texans win lots of games (make the playoffs) and he has his 2004 numbers with more a dozen more TDs and less INT and sacks. Basically, play like Tom Brady, not amazing statisically but getting the job done and a leader.

2. The team loses consistently and he needs to have numbers to start the mentioning of Payton Manning's name with his.

If you think about it Carr doesn't have a full year to prove himself. I am sure Kubiak is not going to allow him endless opportunities the entire year.

Carr has to start off strong and he really needs a good or big game against the Eagles. If they lose that game, it is reasonable to see a 1-3 or 0-4 start and continuing that slide.

Mark this down, those first four games are going to be critical to Carr's career as a Texan.

I can't wait for the home opener!
hollywood_texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #16
Meloy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,834
Rep Power: 14 Meloy was voted MVPMeloy was voted MVPMeloy was voted MVP
Default

Possibilities: 1. Carr does well but losses add up. 2. Wins come but Carr looks average or worse 3. Carr looks average or worse and losses mount 4. Carr looks great and team wins more than 8 games. In my opinion, only # 4 will satisfy most fans.
Meloy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #17
HoustonFan
Hall of Fame
 
HoustonFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Houston, TX
Age: 36
Posts: 1,180
Rep Power: 0 HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan HoustonFan
Send a message via AIM to HoustonFan Send a message via MSN to HoustonFan Send a message via Yahoo to HoustonFan
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carr2Johnson
Our offseason has been revolving around fixing our team,getting pieces to the 4-3 defense,and giving Carr the weapons he needs to suceed.

.We got Kevin Walter for a seventh round pick, not exaclty an upgrade from last year but still good.

.We got a veteran receiver in Eric Moulds who take the heat of AJ

.We've fixed our offensive line by getting a great center in Mike Flangan,moving McKinney to Guard where he belongs,we've picked up Eric Winston and Charles Spencer.

. And We got the perfect coach to get him over the hump with Gary Kubiak.

Now that he has all the weapons how will he have to prove himself so we can know that made the right move in picking up his option over Drafting Vince Young

Here is what he has to do in my mind:

He will have to make fewer mistakes, give the city something to be excited about like passing the game-winning touchdown at the end of regulation, or he will have to get us back from like 14 down or somthing, but the most important thing is he will have to lead us to the playoffs in 2 years, the city has been waiting for something to cheer about, he has 4 years of experience and the city is getting impatient.

What do you guys think?
You touched on alot, but this one does it for me. I think this guy can be a beast despite what the majority might say. I remember the 2nd season how we lost so many close games by like no more than 3 - most of which came down to a field goal - that season should have been the winning season, at least 9 -7. Carr was injured that season and when Banks and Ragone went down he was back in the mix and put together some awesome 2 minute drills - hurt and all. All and all he's gotta lead this team or at least step it up in the leadership area. Make it happen, D. Carr.
__________________
Frustrated watching the Texans? Then you definitely need this!!!!!
HoustonFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #18
TK_Gamer
Hall of Fame
 
TK_Gamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Age: 51
Posts: 1,029
Rep Power: 13 TK_Gamer was voted MVPTK_Gamer was voted MVPTK_Gamer was voted MVPTK_Gamer was voted MVP
Default

ok, i would say management made a choice this year to address needs, our biggest 2 needs were pass rush and stop pass rush. they did that, how it turns out is in the future that we cant predict. they could have went offense and dumped Carr and picked up vince young. then we would have a rookie QB with 3 years of growth ahead of him. so we wouldnt have made a huge turnaround everyone thinks if they would have grabbed vince young. with the choice they made of going defense and pass protection, we will be a better football team for years to come, regardless of who our QB is. so me personally , I'm gonna watch our defense improve this year, give Carr his chance by default, and if needed we can adress the QB position next year or the year after. I dont think David Carr is gonna lose games for us. but he may keep us in the game and maybe even gain confidence thru the season and become the QB everyone hopes he will be. I'm actually more worried about how improved our O-line becomes, because that will be a factor whoever takes the snaps. I think its gonna be fun to watch though
__________________
"Yeah, and Barry Sanders, Thurman Thomas, and Gale Sayers were *undersized* too...."
TK_Gamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #19
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
 
swtbound07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Tampa, Florida
Age: 29
Posts: 9,474
Rep Power: 904 swtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TK_Gamer
ok, i would say management made a choice this year to address needs, our biggest 2 needs were pass rush and stop pass rush. they did that, how it turns out is in the future that we cant predict. they could have went offense and dumped Carr and picked up vince young. then we would have a rookie QB with 3 years of growth ahead of him. so we wouldnt have made a huge turnaround everyone thinks if they would have grabbed vince young. with the choice they made of going defense and pass protection, we will be a better football team for years to come, regardless of who our QB is. so me personally , I'm gonna watch our defense improve this year, give Carr his chance by default, and if needed we can adress the QB position next year or the year after. I dont think David Carr is gonna lose games for us. but he may keep us in the game and maybe even gain confidence thru the season and become the QB everyone hopes he will be. I'm actually more worried about how improved our O-line becomes, because that will be a factor whoever takes the snaps. I think its gonna be fun to watch though
Did it take rothlisberger 3 years to become a champion?
__________________

Sig by Michaelm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Maher
"I'll show you Obama's birth certificate when you show me Sarah Palin's high school diploma"
swtbound07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2006   #20
TK_Gamer
Hall of Fame
 
TK_Gamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Age: 51
Posts: 1,029
Rep Power: 13 TK_Gamer was voted MVPTK_Gamer was voted MVPTK_Gamer was voted MVPTK_Gamer was voted MVP
Default

have you ever seen vince young play? his habits and abilities would have to change drasticly to play in the nfl, he depended on a set system to produce the numbers he got. shotgun, option plays?, sidearm?
__________________
"Yeah, and Barry Sanders, Thurman Thomas, and Gale Sayers were *undersized* too...."
TK_Gamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger