Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-05-2006   #1
bckey
Hall of Fame
 
bckey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 53
Posts: 2,325
Rep Power: 15763 bckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default Capers Chagrined

Looked through the threads here and didn't see this posted yet. Capers is doing a little whining. In the end though he just didn't produce a winning product.


CAPERS CHAGRINED BY KUBIAK'S SITUATION

In response to the news that Rick Smith will become the new G.M. of the Houston Texans, we're hearing that former Texans coach Dom Capers is lamenting the fact that his successor, Gary Kubiak, got to pick his own personnel guy.

Capers was hired after the team had put in place G.M. Charley Casserly, and Capers (rumor has it) wasn't always thrilled (to say the least) with the guys that Casserly added to the roster.

In our view, it's hard to feel bad for a guy who finished up his fourth season on the job by winning only two games, regardless of whether the G.M. was Casserly or Ron Wolf or Fran Foley. Capers had four full years to prove his worth, and in the end his performance helped to seal his fate.

Moreover, if Capers didn't like the direction of the personnel department, he should have forced the issue with owner Bob McNair, as more and more coaches have done over the past decade.

With that said, we can understand why Capers is feeling a little frustrated. Kubiak is getting far more juice as an unproven commodity than Capers received when he arrived four years ago with a solid and diverse resume. Capers took the expansion Panthers to the NFC title game in only their second season, and he enjoyed plenty of success as a defensive coordinator before and after his stint in Carolina. Kubiak has merely been the consistent lieutenant to a control freak in Denver.

Moreover, the appearance that McNair ultimately created in Houston was that Capers alone took the fall for the team's poor performance in its first four years of existence. Apparently concerned with the possibility that he'd be labeled a buffoon for hiring both Capers and Casserly if he fired both of them at or about the same time, McNair dumped Capers and then carried Casserly through the draft, allowing him to "resign" in a manner that, on the surface, saved face both for the organization and for Casserly.

As far as we can tell, the ruse worked. Most of the references we now see to Casserly include a statement that he resigned the position of G.M. in order to pursue a job in the league office, which strongly implies that he'd still be the G.M. of the Texans if he really wanted to be.

Folks who follow the league closely know otherwise. Casserly was definitely out after the draft. The only remaining question was whether he'd walk before getting run.

So we can understand Capers' situation. A little bit. In the end, though, it's hard to feel sorry for a guy who was in a position to improve his situation by better navigating the front-office politics in order to get the players he needed.

Or by winning more games with the ones that he had.


Comments?

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm
bckey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #2
Double Barrel
Modified Simian
 
Double Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Onward, Upward, and back into the Trees
Section: Gridiron, Tx
Age: 47
Posts: 30,682
Rep Power: 301240 Double Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Capers has only one winning season in eight years as an NFL head coach. That record speaks for itself, IMO. Simply put, Capers is probably a good defensive coordinator, but he's a lousy heach coach.

When a 7-9 team flops to 2-14, I can't blame the GM. The 2005 Texans came out flat and uninspired, not ready to play professional football. It's not the GM in the lockeroom motivating players and working out schemes, it's the friggin' head coach.

In addition, the HC decided to keep an offensive coordinator that was obviously a wrong fit for the team (hence firing said coordinator just two games into a new season). I blame the head coach for that debacle, not the GM.

And it is a widely held belief that Casserly only obtained the players that the coaches wanted, so the 2-14 team was a direct reflection of Capers' choices.

I don't have any animosity towards the old coach, but the last thing I want to hear is any whining or complaints from him. Move on, Capers, and keep doing what you're doing...as long as it's not on my team!
__________________
"Football is only a diversion." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS
Double Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #3
Hervoyel
The Right Track
 
Hervoyel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 49
Posts: 14,665
Rep Power: 247537 Hervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respectedHervoyel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

To begin with I don't think I've seen anyone who's opinion I consider worth anything speak badly of Capers since he was fired. There are always going to be those fans who are ready to lynch the coach or any assistant, player, or front office person they perceive to be "the problem" but those people don't know squat.

The opinions I'm seeing that matter (to me at least) are all fairly consistent in hanging the blame on Capers for not doing something about the coaches under him. He was in a bad marriage to Chris Palmer from the start and never held Vic Fangio accountable for putting the kind of defense that Capers was known for on the field. Then he brought in the clearly incompetent Joe Pendry to take "Palmer type" offensive picks and run a "Capers type" offense. Dom did not manage the people who worked for him and so he lost his job. End of story IMO.

If Kubiak does something with many of these same players then in my mind the case will be closed. Dom Capers is a fine man and a great defensive coordinator but he is not winning head coach material.
__________________
A wise man once said "...well at this point it's all been hashed out and you either see it or don't. Hoping for a win next week" - HTown2ATX
Hervoyel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #4
bckey
Hall of Fame
 
bckey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 53
Posts: 2,325
Rep Power: 15763 bckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
Dom Capers is a fine man and a great defensive coordinator but he is not winning head coach material.

I think this statement sums up what the majority of the Texans fans think about Capers.
bckey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #5
TwinSisters
Hall of Fame
 
TwinSisters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In my mind.
Posts: 1,470
Rep Power: 12 TwinSisters was voted MVPTwinSisters was voted MVPTwinSisters was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bckey
Kubiak has merely been the consistent lieutenant to a control freak in Denver.
Those dudes at Profootballtalk... those dudes... I got an ear full of that at my cooler too. We'll see.

It's gonna be a long summer
---
Capers had injuries to deal with on the 2-14 season. Other wise he might have finished 8-8 or better. It's not like the Texans were getting blown out every single game.
__________________
First of all you should always take the best player-Polian.

Last edited by TwinSisters; 06-05-2006 at 09:00 PM.
TwinSisters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #6
Tulip
Hall of Fame
 
Tulip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Age: 38
Posts: 1,864
Rep Power: 15 Tulip was voted MVPTulip was voted MVPTulip was voted MVPTulip was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSisters
Capers had injuries to deal with on the 2-14 season. Other wise he might have finished 8-8 or better. It's not like the Texans were getting blow out every single game.
IMO, the injury situation was much worse in the 2003 (5-11) season.
__________________
Addition by subtraction
Tulip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #7
TEXANRED
Texan-American
 
TEXANRED's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Age: 38
Posts: 7,152
Rep Power: 44942 TEXANRED is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANRED is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANRED is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANRED is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANRED is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANRED is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANRED is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANRED is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANRED is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANRED is a quality contributor and well respectedTEXANRED is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Capers may still have a job if he had the juice to be able to fire his friends. Pendry and Fangio single handedly cost him his job. (This being the second time Pendry has cost Capers his job, first being Carolina.)

Capers' stuborness to continue playing a 34 D with personel that never fit. Never being able to develop the players he had. Carr, Babin, TJ, Wand all whos careers are in damage control. Gaffney never developed and was let find work else were, and Wells can't find a job.

It was Capers who said we had to have Greenwood, Walker, Babin, Pbuc, Wade. That is alot of money between those five that are no better than second stringers on any decent team.

He started Corey Bradford

He started Victor Riley over Wand and Pitts

He continued to let McKinney play center when clearly he is a guard
He lost the respect of his team in the very begining of last season. You could just tell. The very first play of the regular season Carr fumbles the football away to the Bills. The team quit on him b/c they knew Capers was unfitt to lead this team. Chris Brown shanks, and I am going to quote Shannon Sharp, "A 30 yard field goal 40 yards to the left." That is not like Chris Brown.

I will restate it, Capers didn't have the juice to fire his friends, make the tough decisions, and he started Victor Riley
__________________
I am in an abusive relationship with life and I am to cowardly to leave it. - Homer Simpson.

TEXANRED is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 06-05-2006   #8
Long Baller
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Age: 53
Posts: 79
Rep Power: 10 Long Baller is ridin' the pine
Default

The thing that bugged me the most about the Capers era was that we "NEVER" had a pass rush and that was his specialty. If he could not succeed at what he was best at how was he ever going to succeed at the areas where he was weakest....
__________________
Schaub to Johnson; Rock N' Roll - Touchdown Houston
Long Baller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #9
ATX_Texan
Veteran
 
ATX_Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The 512, ATX
Posts: 125
Rep Power: 10 ATX_Texan is a team player
Default

Quote:
Capers was hired after the team had put in place G.M. Charley Casserly, and Capers (rumor has it) wasn't always thrilled (to say the least) with the guys that Casserly added to the roster.
Wow, this is an interesting quote. First, we have Casserly and his defenders that continue to spew about how Capers was the one messing everything up by forcing him to make horrible trades, waste draft picks, and over pay for average talent.

Now, we also have word from Capers and his folks that he was just working with the players that Casserly provided.

You cannot have it both ways. The fundamental flaw is that Casserly should have had the final say on all personal decisions regarding this team. The fact that the team has changed out more than half of the roster from last year tells everyone just how miserably Casserly failed.
__________________
You're thinkin' like a fool 'cause it's a case of do or die - Judas Priest
ATX_Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #10
TwinSisters
Hall of Fame
 
TwinSisters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In my mind.
Posts: 1,470
Rep Power: 12 TwinSisters was voted MVPTwinSisters was voted MVPTwinSisters was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulip
IMO, the injury situation was much worse in the 2003 (5-11) season.
I know! I used to think there was something wrong in the trainers' department or scouting department.

Although I would have to go back and compare the two to see what really was the worse... but I don't feel like it. I don't wanna.

The offensive line was shredded by week two ( I think ) last year, that was enough to scrape the bowline. Not that Capers didn't make mistakes, it's just that it is overblown to toss it all on him ( or his assistants,etc. ). If his team was perfectly healthy and he still finished with a 2-14 record, that's a little different. But I don't want to give the impression that I think Capers is an elite coach either, I could really care less if he was doing alright or bombing it. That office needed to change either way.

PS If I remember correctly the 2003 season had a lot secondary injuries.
__________________
First of all you should always take the best player-Polian.
TwinSisters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #11
the wonger need food
Hall of Fame
 
the wonger need food's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston
Age: 44
Posts: 2,562
Rep Power: 1340 the wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respectedthe wonger need food is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

It's hard to feel sorry for multi-millionaire coaches... but here's guessing Bobo isn't far behind.
the wonger need food is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #12
TexanFan881
Hall of Fame
 
TexanFan881's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Illinois
Age: 24
Posts: 2,801
Rep Power: 1791 TexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to TexanFan881
Default

Injuries are never an excuse for a bad season. That's why you have back-ups, that's why you have each team wants depth. The teams that make the playoffs and don't finish 2-14 are the teams that are prepared for injuries.
__________________
Proud Adoptee Of Our Future Starting Running Back Chris Taylor
TexanFan881 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #13
TwinSisters
Hall of Fame
 
TwinSisters's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: In my mind.
Posts: 1,470
Rep Power: 12 TwinSisters was voted MVPTwinSisters was voted MVPTwinSisters was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexanFan881
Injuries are never an excuse for a bad season. That's why you have back-ups, that's why you have each team wants depth. The teams that make the playoffs and don't finish 2-14 are the teams that are prepared for injuries.
Which begs the question... who builds depth?

http://www.nfl.com/teams/story/HOU/9033967

I think you under estimate the effect of injuries on a football club. There are things like turf toe, the occasional out for three weeks, and then there are things like having to start three different centers in one game.
__________________
First of all you should always take the best player-Polian.
TwinSisters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #14
Meloy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,834
Rep Power: 14 Meloy was voted MVPMeloy was voted MVPMeloy was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATX_Texan
Wow, this is an interesting quote. First, we have Casserly and his defenders that continue to spew about how Capers was the one messing everything up by forcing him to make horrible trades, waste draft picks, and over pay for average talent.

Now, we also have word from Capers and his folks that he was just working with the players that Casserly provided.

You cannot have it both ways. The fundamental flaw is that Casserly should have had the final say on all personal decisions regarding this team. The fact that the team has changed out more than half of the roster from last year tells everyone just how miserably Casserly failed.
"Ain't my fault. I didn't do it. Must have been that guy over there. No? Well ,what about that guy or maybe it was your fault. Mom, mom? Are you going to let that guy talk about me that way? It must be them 'cause it sure ain't my fault." Sheesh!
Meloy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #15
Double Barrel
Modified Simian
 
Double Barrel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Onward, Upward, and back into the Trees
Section: Gridiron, Tx
Age: 47
Posts: 30,682
Rep Power: 301240 Double Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respectedDouble Barrel is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSisters
Capers had injuries to deal with on the 2-14 season. Other wise he might have finished 8-8 or better. It's not like the Texans were getting blow out every single game.
You're kiddin' me, right?

The Texans never had a single lead in the first six games of the 2005 season. A record, I might add, that hasn't been touched since the NFL of the 1930's!!

No, we didn't get blown out every single game...hey, we won two!
__________________
"Football is only a diversion." ~ HOUSTON TEXANS
Double Barrel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #16
SESupergenius
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Capers without a doubt deserves a lot of the blame for losing the team, but Casserly needs an equal share in that. If you couldn't see our team being worse than 7-9 after losing Glenn, Sharper and getting Greenwood and P-Buc then you wouldn't get the fact that Casserly had a LOT to do with us going to 2-14. Before entering the 2005 season the writing was on the wall as to how our season was going to go considering the monumentally disasterous off-season in both free agency and the draft. The off-season transactions is where Casserly has the most influence and it was an utter fiasco going into the 2005 regular schedule. I can not fault Capers for the personnel given him cosidering Kubiak and his staff have pretty much gutted the team of bad players with more to come in the coming weeks. It's no coincidence that our off-season this year is pretty solid and Casserly hands have essentially been tied behind his back. It's no wonder he is not on the team anymore, no matter how sugar coated the offical party line is.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #17
tsip
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,277
Rep Power: 13 tsip was voted MVPtsip was voted MVPtsip was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TwinSisters
I know! I used to think there was something wrong in the trainers' department or scouting department.

Although I would have to go back and compare the two to see what really was the worse... but I don't feel like it. I don't wanna.

The offensive line was shredded by week two ( I think ) last year, that was enough to scrape the bowline. Not that Capers didn't make mistakes, it's just that it is overblown to toss it all on him ( or his assistants,etc. ). If his team was perfectly healthy and he still finished with a 2-14 record, that's a little different. But I don't want to give the impression that I think Capers is an elite coach either, I could really care less if he was doing alright or bombing it. That office needed to change either way.

PS If I remember correctly the 2003 season had a lot secondary injuries.
Every team in the NFL has to deal with injuries and player turnover and that is a constant every year. The Pats won a SB with over 40 different player combinations during the year, including a secondary so depleated that a WR was playing as a DB. As Belicek said once when asked about injuries, they are a 'given, difference is how you deal with them. We expect to win, We won't accept excuses.' Under Capers, there was no such philosophy and some fans still make excuses for the Texans under Capers.

Last edited by tsip; 06-05-2006 at 03:53 PM.
tsip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #18
AFD1717
Veteran
 
AFD1717's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 35
Posts: 326
Rep Power: 9 AFD1717 is a team player
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TEXANRED
Capers' stuborness to continue playing a 34 D
For a second I thought we had stopped talking about football!
__________________
"We ain't here for a long time, so we're here for a good time."
AFD1717 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #19
Corrosion
Hall of Fame
 
Corrosion's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Northwest Houston
Age: 46
Posts: 31,134
Rep Power: 174245 Corrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respectedCorrosion is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

In my opinion , Capers had lost this team a year before the collapse we witnessed last season . Anyone remember the remarks that got Jamie Sharper run out of town ? (not that it didnt turn out to be the right move to release him) .... "We need a leader" ..... But the team as a whole didnt believe in Capers brand of football . Capers didnt play to win games , he played not to lose them . That more than anything else led to the 2-14 mark they put up last season .
__________________



Hope is a poor mans disease.
Corrosion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2006   #20
Marcus
Hall of Fame
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Stafford, Texas
Age: 60
Posts: 7,611
Rep Power: 76169 Marcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respectedMarcus is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Jason Babin and Phillip Buchanon. Those two players.

I really wish I knew the real story, or who it was that really wanted these two players, and the thinking that went into it. But until I do, I really don't know who should be "blamed" for the past.

I bet if you took a poll as to who you blame more . . . Capers or Casserly, I'm willing to bet it would fall somewhere around 50/50 . . .

"Bottom line . . it was a 2-14 season."

Well, that's informative. But it doesn't tell me squat. How bout giving me some more information, rather than 'rumors', so I can tell who is really to blame, and who is the scapegoat.

There is one very big untold story about this team. Maybe one of these days, I'll find out what it is.

Last edited by Marcus; 06-05-2006 at 03:24 PM.
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:38 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger