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Old 05-26-2006   #1
Texans_Chick
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Default Another way to look at DeMeco Ryans

OK, we know he is smart, the generalized scouting report is that you wish he were a better athlete:

See for example: DeMeco Ryans Scouting Report

Quote:
Weaknesses:
Does not have great speed...Possesses only average size...Is not a great natural athlete...Could stand to bulk up and add some weight...Must hit the weight room and get stronger...Has some trouble shedding bigger blockers...Does fine at the college level but could struggle when asked to drop into coverage as a pro.

Notes:
Tremendous college player who was the heart and soul of his squad and the type of guy every good team needs...Is not the biggest or fastest prospect out there but he is more than able to make up for his lack of ideal physical gifts with top intangibles...Should be able to come in and make an impact early on in his career.
OK, I haven't seen him play but the way this is written up is that he is just a smart guy who can get into the right places but you worry some that he isn't enough of an athlete for the NFL. A shorthand.

Well then, I was goofing around and reread something I read a while back. Before the draft so I wasn't paying particulate attention to Ryans.

It was the Pat Kirwin article that we talked about a while back about how he grades players in order to get a sense of the sort of athlete they are. Obviously, it has its limitations, but it just a generalized sense of things. And lookie at this:

Quote:
If you are the kind of NFL fan who really wants to dig down into all the numbers being broadcast to us about the draft class -- the measurables if you will -- then you may find my take on some of these numbers interesting. Teams are still gathering 'measurable' numbers at Pro Day workouts, so this study is incomplete. But I thought it would be a good time to explain how I look at some of the test scores, and more importantly, how I combine certain test scores to get a better feel for an athlete.
.....

The 40-yard dash seems to steal the show as the marquee measurable and it is the most advertised score to interpret. It has its place in the final grade for an NFL prospect, but I prefer to look at a combination of three measurables to get a sense of a prospect's ability to win in the 'combat' of football. I take the vertical-jump score and add it to the standing broad-jump score, which is added to the number of repetitions on the bench-press test. These three scores are combined to give me a benchmark score, which gives me a good feel for a player's ability to win the mini battle he will engage in while trying to finish a play.

I have been adding these three scores for a long time now and I am always looking for athletes who can score a 70 or better. Some positions naturally score higher than others and they need to by the nature of what is required for these positions on the field. Defensive ends and linebackers will generally score higher than wide receivers or cornerbacks. And since these positions are played in space where collisions are not as frequent, it is not as important to score a 70, but nonetheless, I am intrigued by perimeter players who score well on this combination score.

This year, we have a number of players who crossed the 70 mark and we have the rare few that have crossed the 80 mark. Believe me, not many NFL draft-eligible players ever get an 80-plus score. Here's a look at the top guys in this year's draft that have the combination of strength, power, explosiveness and agility to excel. Mario Williams, the top defensive end in the draft class, is off the charts when it comes to this combo score and has one of the highest scores I have ever seen.

NAME POS. VERTICAL BROAD BENCH TOTAL
Mario Williams DE 40.5 10.0 35 85.5
Brodrick Bunkley DT 32.5 9.05 44 85.5
Vernon Davis TE 42.0 10.08 33 85.08
Jon Alston OLB 40.0 11.0 30 81.0
Ray Edwards DE 39.0 9.06 30 78.06
Haloti Ngata DT 31.5 9.02 37 77.52
Ernie Sims LB 41.0 10.05 25 76.05
Dusty Dvoracek DT 34.0 9.06 31 74.06
A.J. Hawk OLB 40.0 9.07 24 73.07
Kamerion Wimbley DE 38.5 10.09 24 72.59
Manny Lawson DE 39.5 10.04 23 72.54
Demeco Ryans OLB 39.0 10.09 23 72.09
Rodrique Wright DT 32.0 9.02 31 72.02
Michael Huff FS/CB 40.5 10.05 21 71.55
Antonio Cromartie CB 42 11.0 18 71.00
DeAngelo Williams RB 35.5 10.01 25 70.51

Just something interesting I wanted to share.
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Old 05-26-2006   #2
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The knock on Demeco as a poor or marginal athlete is just dumb. If people actually watch his games there is zero way to come to this conclusion. I find that a ton of people on mb's and even in the media just glom onto someone else's opinion to form theirs in many cases.
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Old 05-26-2006   #3
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Vertical jump= blocking passes or blocking QB view down field, reps= strength; but broad jump? Does that = taking a running start and then jumping at where you think QB will be? I am sure I am over looking something?
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Old 05-26-2006   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meloy
Vertical jump= blocking passes or blocking QB view down field, reps= strength; but broad jump? Does that = taking a running start and then jumping at where you think QB will be? I am sure I am over looking something?
I think it is supposed to measure "explosiveness".
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Old 05-26-2006   #5
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Originally Posted by Runner
I think it is supposed to measure "explosiveness".
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Old 05-26-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner
I think it is supposed to measure "explosiveness".
That and just another general measure of physical ability, w/o a necessary exact correlation to a particular NFL technique. Kind of like the Wonderlic ... just a broad demonstration of intellectual ability, and one of many tests they do to test capacity that don't necessarily translate directly to the football field but are useful indicators nonetheless.
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Old 05-26-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
The knock on Demeco as a poor or marginal athlete is just dumb. If people actually watch his games there is zero way to come to this conclusion. I find that a ton of people on mb's and even in the media just glom onto someone else's opinion to form theirs in many cases.
I don't remember reading that he was a poor athlete, but I have read that he is not a great athelete, or is merely average to good. If he was a great athlete, he might have been a top 10 pick. I know you are high on him, and you have seen him much more than me. I hope you are right, because we got a steal if so. To me, instincts are more important in a LB than raw athletism.

Another interesting point is Mario is off the charts as a DE. I don't doubt his physical prowess, but we have to see if it translates to the field.
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Old 05-26-2006   #8
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If I don't get a chance to watch a prospect in actual game situations then I may have to use combine numbers/pro-workout & scouting services to make an intelligent (hopefully) decision. DeMeco I did get the chance to see & he was mostly a blure, I mean he was all over the field.

Texans fans are gonna love this guy, my hope is that he can eventually run the defense in similar fashion as another 2nd rd. pick did last year, taking the Seahawks to the Super Bowl, Lofa Tatupu (#45).
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Old 05-26-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky
I don't remember reading that he was a poor athlete, but I have read that he is not a great athelete, or is merely average to good. If he was a great athlete, he might have been a top 10 pick.
3-4 will or sam linebackers are rarely top 10 picks. Most top ten linebackers are edge rush types...but yeah sure there are exceptions. I probably shouldn't have used the word 'poor'.
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Old 05-26-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
I find that a ton of people on mb's and even in the media just glom onto someone else's opinion to form theirs in many cases.
Exactly.

This kills me. It is a form of group think.

I am oft suspicious of the shorthand that gets spun on folks.
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Old 05-26-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick
Exactly.

This kills me. It is a form of group think.

I am oft suspicious of the shorthand that gets spun on folks.
Group thing, and the fact that alot of consumers (of news in this case) are not very critical of the stuff the digest. Sad but true. At least you are the embodyment of the good consumer, being sceptical, critical, and finding stuff like this from the past.

Nice dig!
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Old 05-26-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick
Exactly.

This kills me. It is a form of group think.

I am oft suspicious of the shorthand that gets spun on folks.
Especially when that opinion is based on nothing to start with.

Random poster, from 75 yards away:
"I read player X's body language, and he was hanging his head. He's given up......."

Maybe somebody puked on the field and he didn't want to step in it. Maybe he got "racked". Maybe a lot of things, but the original "observation" frequently grows legs and is impossible to kill with facts.
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Old 05-26-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky
I don't remember reading that he was a poor athlete, but I have read that he is not a great athelete, or is merely average to good. If he was a great athlete, he might have been a top 10 pick. I know you are high on him, and you have seen him much more than me. I hope you are right, because we got a steal if so. To me, instincts are more important in a LB than raw athletism.

Another interesting point is Mario is off the charts as a DE. I don't doubt his physical prowess, but we have to see if it translates to the field.
Others seem high on this linebacker also. I was disappointed when his name was called as I wanted an OT. When we got the two in 3rd and I started researching Demeco, I got impressed quickly. Man, if our first four guys work out and Moulds does what he is supposed to, Carr has even an average seaon for a QB, we may be in for a fun ride....
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Old 05-26-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texans_Chick
Exactly.

This kills me. It is a form of group think.

I am oft suspicious of the shorthand that gets spun on folks.
I would much rather hear someone's "stupid"opinion that he/she came up with than a "smart" opinion that is just a "me too on the band wagon."
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Old 05-26-2006   #15
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Quote:
Random poster, from 75 yards away:
"I read player X's body language, and he was hanging his head. He's given up......."
Is that a reference to what I wrote about Wand in training camp last year?(you basically quoted what I said about him in an article last Aug). That certainly turned out to be true ... although I was about 20-30 yards away when I noticed the beginning of his Dr. Pendry induced psychological free fall in camp.
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Old 05-26-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aj.
Is that a reference to what I wrote about Wand in training camp last year?(you basically quoted what I said about him in an article last Aug). That certainly turned out to be true ... although I was about 20-30 yards away when I noticed the beginning of his Dr. Pendry induced psychological free fall in camp.
I think your valued opinion, experience, access and post count dictate that it was not meant towards you. But I have been wrong before and will be wrong again.
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Old 05-26-2006   #17
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Vinny, do you feel that Demeco Ryans was the best player we chose in this draft?
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Old 05-26-2006   #18
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Post count - shmost count. Who cares about that meaningless number... kind of like the rep thing.
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Old 05-26-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aj.
Post count - shmost count. Who cares about that meaningless number... kind of like the rep thing.
But it does suggest that you are not a random poster for our investigation.
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Old 05-26-2006   #20
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