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Old 09-03-2004   #41
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Yeah he's fast at first but once he gets to tha 50 he seems to really ware down. Must be cause those tiny legs are churning a million times per second. but he's a hell of a KR.
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Old 09-03-2004   #42
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Starling and Moses stay. They shed a TE.
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Old 09-03-2004   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rd Coast Playa
haha he runs kina like me, im 5'6 im quick but i aint fast after 40 yards. ima try to get on the practice squad and them eventually take andre's place.

yeah well good luck w/ that one,,,,no really
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Old 09-03-2004   #44
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Default Moses and Starling

Moses played one or two games in 2002 for Green Bay, at the end of the season. 5 punts, 4 kickoffs. Then, got cut for Eric Metcalf, (2 kickoffs, 3 punts for a -0.3 yard average). (from the Green Bay website)

So technically, 2002 was his rookie year. But realistically, 2003 was his rookie year.

I'm hoping they keep Moses and Starling. Sloan probably on the practice squad. If they want to keep JJ, but aren't playing him anyway, why not classify him as a TE? Or maybe a defensive tackle?

Maybe they could classify him as half a defensive tackle, and Sloan as the other half, so he doesn't take up a full roster spot?

By the way, per http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/KRET/2004/pre, who's no. 1 in kickoff returns in the preseason? My monitor is too small to read the name clearly... Can anybody help me?
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Last edited by rdbrem; 09-03-2004 at 11:58 PM. Reason: My editor killed one of the words I used (bombed)
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Old 09-04-2004   #45
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Originally Posted by 3rd Coast Playa
he is slowwwwwwwww, man, he is quick dont you know the differance? deep speed, thats what i have said all along, sure he is quick, if he wasnt then he wouldnt have gotten those long returns that he sometimes made. all that i was saying all along is that he aint got deep speed, and if he did he would have had more touchdowns then dante hall. so that means that after about 40 yards he doesnt have an extra gear. coprenda?
Wish the other guys on the team were that slow.
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Old 09-04-2004   #46
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I like Starling. I hope they can keep him as well. I don't know who I'd be willing to part with to keep him, but I like what I've seen so far. If we can't keep Starling, I have no doubt he will be picked up quickly by another team.
Since Starling is a pretty good gunner, he could take Bell's or Vaughn's spot and we could carry one more WR and one less DB.

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By the way, per http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/KRET/2004/pre, who's no. 1 in kickoff returns in the preseason? My monitor is too small to read the name clearly... Can anybody help me?
Is that the same Jermaine Lewis at number 9 that was on the Texans in 2002?
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Old 09-04-2004   #47
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Originally Posted by SBTexans08
I guess if Starling takes that final 5th spot, Moses is gone. Now if Moses takes the spot, Starling will make the practice squad. What do you guys think? Pretty much what I'm saying is that if Moses isn't in the roster...he won't even make it to practice squad but be released. Am I making myself clear??
It should be noted that just because a guy doesn't make the 53 man roster, doesn't necessarily mean we can just move him to the practice squad. He has to clear waivers, so other teams can pick him up if we don't keep them on the 53 man roster. This is why people are suggesting a 6 WR group, because if we cut Starling to attempt to put him on the practice squad, odds are someone will pick him up. Especially with as good as he has this preseason and with the raw physical skills he possesses. Hell, the Bears picked up Vontez Duff when we cut HIM, I definitely think we would lose Starling. So instead of saying, "We keep Moses and Starling makes the practice squad" it will likely be more like if we keep Moses and cut Starling, we lose him. So if operate under the assumption of only 5 WR, then you pretty much have to resign yourself to losing one of either Starling or JJ (assuming Sloan isn't even in the discussion, which I don't think he is anymore).

That's why I really hope they stick with the 6 WR and continue to use Moses as the return specialist. They can continue to train Starling on PR and KR and maybe utilize him in that role next season if he works out.
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Old 09-04-2004   #48
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technically yes vinny, i had thought you'd have known what was meant.

this debate seems to me to come down the importance people put on special teams. my feeling is that a kick returner is a specialist and is critical to any team. dante hall is one of the biggest names in football, why? surely not because he's what 5'9" and makes spectacular catches, no it's because he's able to field a 50 yard kick and make moves noone else on the field can to get his offense in best position possible to score.

honestly, who would be displaced if we field a return specialist such as JJ? if a receiver is that person, it's a backup to two other backups. if it's another player, it's going to be someone who wont see much, if any, game time unless there's a blowout. what happens if we only have 4 wr's? we put miller out there if there's going to be a 5 wr set, a better receiver anyways. if one goes down, that means armstrong gets more time to play (which i believe he's going to really suprise folks when given the chance) and we activate the best of our young core from the practice squad as a backup.

now if i'm wrong and the arguement is simply JJ isnt good enough, find me anyone on the texans' roster that is better. or find me any "rookies" that gained more yards with fewer fumbles/drops than moses. "slow" isnt much of an arguement, i've already disputed big play potential with stats.
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Old 09-04-2004   #49
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Scooter, I agree with you 100%.
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Old 09-04-2004   #50
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Hell, the Bears picked up Vontez Duff when we cut HIM
See if he is still on their roster on Monday.
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Old 09-04-2004   #51
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Moses can't be on the practice squad, right? (Due to 2 years there already)
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Old 09-04-2004   #52
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Scooter - I completely agree with you. I'm surprised that the returner's value is considered less than the value of an 11th DB or a 6th receiver. I feel that it is one of the most important roster spots, and I don't mind for a minute if we take up a spot with a true return specialist.
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Old 09-04-2004   #53
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I always liked Tulips I guess JJ is destined to go down in Texans record books as the all time kick off returner at least for now. I love his attitude and faith in his own abilities not to mention he is living his dream. But I'm going to say this, if a returner is worth a roster spot then next year I hope, no I pray that the Texans are able to draft Mark Clayton of OK. Then we can put all this controversy behind us and produce W's.
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Old 09-04-2004   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter
technically yes vinny, i had thought you'd have known what was meant.
I have/had a grasp on what you meant. I just didn't want anyone who read that to get the impression that he was a rookie last year when he was in his second year. Not a biggie, and I more or less agree with your overall point anyhoo...fwiw.
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Old 09-04-2004   #55
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JJ moses will be on our roster come monday, and everyone in the anti-JJ camp needs to accept it. JJ Moses isn't the most gifted returner in NFL history, but he can give us desirable field position, which is something you can't say for anyone else competing for the job. Vontez Duff was metiocre at best, and Kendrick Starling did not show much better. JJ, on the other hand, did. Many gave him flak for getting run down in the Jets game, but he got us into their red zone, and our offense couldn't punch it in.

I will be disappointed if he gets cut, that's for sure. I don't understand downgrading at a certain position, even if it's 'just' a return man.
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Old 09-04-2004   #56
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I think JJ will stay.. as well as starling. its not that hard to imagine that we would keep 6 wide receivers in this situation. Though I dont think we will go with 1 less TE... not after the injuries we have had at that position. If anything I think we may cut down at LB.. since we have a decent amount of depth there.. or possibly at CB.

What id really like to see.. if we are gonna keep JJ as a return specialist.. teach him a different position! There has to be something that a guy that size, with that kind of talent can do. Can he tackle? try him at strong saftey and throw him in there on rushing downs... give him a shot as a nickle corner or heck.. try him at outside linebacker (lol).. maybe that shiftyness will get him around the LT. I remember when I played ball in highschool.. there was a guy.. he was about 6'5" and about 125 pounds soaking wet with bricks in his pocket... but he could just slide right by those o-linemen and get to that QB.

Dont get me wrong.. I am not saying that JJ has some hidden potential as a huge playmaker at outside linebacker or something.. im just saying that if we are gonna keep him as our KR & PR.. then try him everywhere and make sure he doesnt have potential to actually add some depth to the roster at a different spot.. or at least potential as a situational rusher or HB or something. Hell.. can he throw? maybe he can take the 3rd QB spot and we can get rid of butterfinger banks.
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Old 09-05-2004   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdbrem
Moses can't be on the practice squad, right? (Due to 2 years there already)
I don't believe Moses was ever on our practice squad. I could be mistaken, but he was in the Chiefs camp as a rookie in 2002 I believe and he made the Texans 53 to start off 2003.
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Old 09-05-2004   #58
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Actually I think Moses started as a Packer and then was released and went to KC before he came here. Also, you are correct in the fact that he is not going to be eligible for the PS.
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Old 09-05-2004   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulip
Scooter - I completely agree with you. I'm surprised that the returner's value is considered less than the value of an 11th DB or a 6th receiver. I feel that it is one of the most important roster spots, and I don't mind for a minute if we take up a spot with a true return specialist.
Overall, returner is a position that people notice in 3 situations

1- When you hav a very good one.
2- When you have a very bad one.
3- When you you have no worthwhile position battles to talk about in pre-season

Most you of can't name 5 returners off the top of your head, but the texans are one of the team that place a pretty high importance on the position

-carried carried Jermaine Lewis the fist year
-drafted Dom Davis a KR/3rd in 2003
-drafted Duff a KR in 2004
-Kept Moses as KR only in 2003
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Old 09-05-2004   #60
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carried Jermaine Lewis the fist year
Because they had no players and he fit the bill as a dual threat - then.

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drafted Dom Davis a KR/3rd in 2003
Because Lewis washed out, Moses hadn't "arrived" yet, and Avion Black wasn't the answer. Also because of DD's dual threat capability - backup RB (then) and return man.

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drafted Duff a KR in 2004
Again, from most reports because he could serve a dual role as backup DB (which it turns out he couldn't) and return man

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Kept Moses as KR only in 2003
True.

The Texans have also place high importance on right tackle (different one every year) and many other positions. That happens when you're building a team and you're not completely satisfied with what you have at that position.

Last edited by aj.; 09-05-2004 at 11:03 AM.
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