Kubiak Vs. Capers

[amazingandre]

BOBO and I are in this heated debate. WHo is better Capers (any of his 4 years) or Gary Kubiak in his 1st year, as head coach????????

[Exascor]

Depends on what the criteria are. Some people think wins are everything and a winning team can't have problems. I think you have to look at the entire picture when evaluating a coach. Are the players motivated? Are they playing hard? Did the coaching have a lot of influence on the wins (ie good play calling, basic team strategies...)? Did they play well and lose or did they play bad and lose? Lots of things to compare.

Capers has years of experience as a HC and had one OK season in Houston. 7-9. It wasn't a good season because the team seemed to lose it in the second half of the season. The first 2 seasons were about what was expected. Poor results from a team with little talent.

Kubiak has no experience as a HC but I believe in his systems more than Capers apparent play-not-to-lose gameplan.

That said...If Kubiak was hired in 2002, I don't see much changing in the first 3 years in the win column. I would have expected the team to be a little more competetive in the losses though. Year 4 could have been bad even with Kubiak but I doubt it. At worst either coach should have been able to repeat the previous year's performance of 7-9.

To answer the original question: I'm going with Capers. I don't think Kubiak will reach 7-9 this season but do feel the team will be in more games than games where they are just plain blown out.

[amazingandre]

don't agree but i do like how you evaluated both and came to jogic, but bobo wow he makes me angry:brickwall anyway ya i know but you said they both should i least repeat the season of 7-9 right? well i htink they will do better because they have the same weapons and more now. i think that Kubiak is doing one thing superb he has the team so hyped it's unreal.... the fans are more excited than recent years. anyway i think that kubiak can take the talent we have and mould (lol) this team into a contender this year, i say w go wild card and possibly win, lets go TEXANS

[thunderkyss]

Hey.... I'm siding with Bobo on this one.

It would be nice, if Capers would be a little more agressive, and play to win the game on both sides of the ball. That said, there's a fine line, between being aggressive, and being stupid. Why throw the ball, when all we have to do, is run out the clock??

Why Blitz, instead of keeping the ball in front of you, when it's 3rd and 34, and you've got the lead??

We have no clue where Gary is going to fall in regards to that line. & while we'd appreciate an aggressive offense, a complex offense, we don't know that Gary will deliver.....

How much worse can it get?? we may very well find out......

What if Dom did everything he could, to get this team over .500?? But the one thing he wanted to do...... replace David.... was something he couldn't do?? If David is still starting at the end of '06, then we can be assured, that was not the case. If Sage makes more than one start........

In all honesty... what did we expect Capers to do?? He started with nothing. We won some games in '02.... we won some in '03.... we won some in '04... We didn't make the playofs like Jacksonville/Carolina did. But those were different circumstances. different players......

The team went backwards, second half of '04, & in '05. why?? the play book has been scaled back since '02. why?? why have we never pulled our QB to protect him?? If my job is on the line, and I know we have to win games..... & I see my team moving the ball, scoring TDs..... why wouldn't I let them go?? It's not like they were losing their lead before I jumped in... & If I made that decision, to get in the way, and slow the offense down, why would I do it again, the next week..... and the week after, and the week after?? Don't forget, it's my job on the line.

Something doesn't sound right to me..... something else is/was going on, and we won't have a clue, till next season plays itself out.

[Trap_Star]

This poll is best suited for after the 06 season...

[Hulk75]

The people that voted for Dom are lying to themselves.

[tsip]

"why??"

Your questions all have one thing in common--all were decisions/choices made by Capers. Too, these decisions all contributed to one thing-- a losing team. You've identified many of the things that Capers could have done to put us on a winning track but did not. Instead, he made choices that gave the team no chance to win. Coaches. Players. Game plans. Defense/offensive schemes. When you 'add up' all the choices'decisions that Capers made, they translate into 2/14.

Capers was in charge. He was not a puppet. McNair did not hire Caper's to build the worse team in the NFL but, rather--from day one-- to be a top team among its peers.

Brick wall. You can climb it. you can go around it. You can dig under it. Heck, you can even blow it up. But not Capers, no way. Dom was determined he was going to move that brick wall. He failed to do so in Houston. He failed to do so in Carolina, and not learning from his mistakes in those 2 places is probally why he'll never be a HC in the NFL again.:brickwall

Capers had one goal in mind and that was for 'his' team to be in a position to win the game in the 4th qtr, and his teams met that goal many times. Winning was not a requirement Think about it. If your goal is to win in the 4th qtr, you've got to do 1 of 2 things. If your'e ahead, you got to keep the other team from scoring. If you're behind, you've got to score. This means you have to prepare your team to be able to do both, and the Texans were not. The Texans were only coached to get to 'point A' and not 'point B.' Effective game planning and making adjustments were not a part of Caper's 'resume.' Unfortunately, getting to 'point A' meant success in Caper's Philosophy.

For me, it would be a 'hoot' to watch Capers be a HC of a losing NFL team, not a 'new' expansion team. However, for the Caper's supporters, I believe he would face many of the same obstacles as he did in Houston/Carolina--new coaches/players/new offense/defense.,etc. And, of course, he would face these challenges the same way he has in the past....sorry, but every year begins anew for every team, regardless of age.

Kubiak is nothing like Capers. Winning, like Lombardi said, is everything. More than ever, the NFL is becoming a part of the 'what have you done for me lately' concept. Each season is a new one and that means what worked last year or the year before or even the last game, may not work today. Too, being a winning coach in the past doesn't translate into tenure when you have a losing season-- gone are the coaching 'eras' of people like Tom Landry. Then, good/experienced coaches were 'few and far between'--now, these coaches are everywhere. Dom Capers got something another coach may never get again in the NFL-- 4 yrs to build winning programs on TWO NFL teams.

IMO, the Texans 2006 season will evolve into an 'eye opening' realization that will translate into a 'fan fun ' season. And, finally, this time next year-as it should be-Dom Capers will be a faded memory..............

[Bobo]

Originally Posted by tsip

"why??"

Your questions all have one thing in common--all were decisions/choices made by Capers. Too, these decisions all contributed to one thing-- a losing team. You've identified many of the things that Capers could have done to put us on a winning track but did not. Instead, he made choices that gave the team no chance to win. Coaches. Players. Game plans. Defense/offensive schemes. When you 'add up' all the choices'decisions that Capers made, they translate into 2/14.

Capers was in charge. He was not a puppet. McNair did not hire Caper's to build the worse team in the NFL but, rather--from day one-- to be a top team among its peers.

Brick wall. You can climb it. you can go around it. You can dig under it. Heck, you can even blow it up. But not Capers, no way. Dom was determined he was going to move that brick wall. He failed to do so in Houston. He failed to do so in Carolina, and not learning from his mistakes in those 2 places is probally why he'll never be a HC in the NFL again.:brickwall

Capers had one goal in mind and that was for 'his' team to be in a position to win the game in the 4th qtr, and his teams met that goal many times. Winning was not a requirement Think about it. If your goal is to win in the 4th qtr, you've got to do 1 of 2 things. If your'e ahead, you got to keep the other team from scoring. If you're behind, you've got to score. This means you have to prepare your team to be able to do both, and the Texans were not. The Texans were only coached to get to 'point A' and not 'point B.' Effective game planning and making adjustments were not a part of Caper's 'resume.' Unfortunately, getting to 'point A' meant success in Caper's Philosophy.

For me, it would be a 'hoot' to watch Capers be a HC of a losing NFL team, not a 'new' expansion team. However, for the Caper's supporters, I believe he would face many of the same obstacles as he did in Houston/Carolina--new coaches/players/new offense/defense.,etc. And, of course, he would face these challenges the same way he has in the past....sorry, but every year begins anew for every team, regardless of age.

Kubiak is nothing like Capers. Winning, like Lombardi said, is everything. More than ever, the NFL is becoming a part of the 'what have you done for me lately' concept. Each season is a new one and that means what worked last year or the year before or even the last game, may not work today. Too, being a winning coach in the past doesn't translate into tenure when you have a losing season-- gone are the coaching 'eras' of people like Tom Landry. Then, good/experienced coaches were 'few and far between'--now, these coaches are everywhere. Dom Capers got something another coach may never get again in the NFL-- 4 yrs to build winning programs on TWO NFL teams.

IMO, the Texans 2006 season will evolve into an 'eye opening' realization that will translate into a 'fan fun ' season. And, finally, this time next year-as it should be-Dom Capers will be a faded memory..............

Umm, when you add up all the decisions that Capers made, they also included a team that improved every year except the last and a team that hit 7-9 in just their third year of existence. It seems that your post indicates that you have a very selective memory indeed. As far as a "fan fun" season this year, I don't think so -- IMO. In fact, I think you'll find that aura of excitement and anticipation that characterized Capers tenure strangely missing this year. In fact, I know it will -- at least for me.

[Kaiser Toro]

So may ways to qualify my answer, but to go with one it would be excitement. The fan in me desperately needs to be excited due to the last four seasons being anything but. I really do feel that I will be out of my seat this year due to cheers more so than jeers. I am a die hard, but even diehards need to be charged.

[Bobo]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

So may ways to qualify my answer, but to go with one it would be excitement. The fan in me desperately needs to be excited due to the last four seasons being anything but. I really do feel that I will be out of my seat this year due to cheers more so than jeers. I am a die hard, but even diehards need to be charged.

I think anybody who has actually been to the games in the past four years will see this statement as just another case of either revisionist history or a very, very failing memory. You can legitimately say that year four was not all that exciting -- though the Rams game was a great one, even though the Texans lost. But for those who were not there from 2002-4, let me clearly and succinctly inform you that Reliant Stadium was indeed rocking. And not just selectively. It was going crazy every ... single ... game. After all, the opposition doesn't get socked with those delay of game penalties if your fans aren't going crazy. And if Kaiser Toro was even in Reliant Stadium during the first three years, he must have been spending all of his time in the parking lot eating barbecue. Unfortunately, I do not see that same kind of intensity this year. I don't see Kubiak really bringing anything substantial to the table except a lot of years as an assistant -- some which have been good, others not so good. I think most fans will be sitting on their hands, waiting for something to happen.

[powerfuldragon]

i think this year it could go either way. eventually, however, kubiak will emerge as the better coach.

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by Bobo

I think anybody who has actually been to the games in the past four years will see this statement as just another case of either revisionist history or a very, very failing memory. You can legitimately say that year four was not all that exciting -- though the Rams game was a great one, even though the Texans lost. But for those who were not there from 2002-4, let me clearly and succinctly inform you that Reliant Stadium was indeed rocking. And not just selectively. It was going crazy every ... single ... game. After all, the opposition doesn't get socked with those delay of game penalties if your fans aren't going crazy. And if Kaiser Toro was even in Reliant Stadium during the first three years, he must have been spending all of his time in the parking lot eating barbecue. Unfortunately, I do not see that same kind of intensity this year. I don't see Kubiak really bringing anything substantial to the table except a lot of years as an assistant -- some which have been good, others not so good. I think most fans will be sitting on their hands, waiting for something to happen.

My whereabouts are definetely known during home games and it is in section 124. If Capers ball the last four years excited you then I have the Days of Our Lives: Let's Get Physical DVD box set for you at $99 in nine easy installments.

I will give you that the defense has been really the only side of the ball that brought us out of our seats.

I just do not understand why you are so spiteful regarding Kubiak. I am the first to critique someone as long as they have a record in their role as a Texan. But what gives you the goose bumps, or lack there of, from Kubiak not putting together a better product than Capers? Please give me something tangible.

[Bobo]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

My whereabouts are definetely known during home games and it is in section 124. If Capers ball the last four years excited you then I have the Days of Our Lives: Let's Get Physical DVD box set for you at $99 in nine easy installments.

I will give you that the defense has been really the only side of the ball that brought us out of our seats.

I just do not understand why you are so spiteful regarding Kubiak. I am the first to critique someone as long as they have a record in their role as a Texan. But what gives you the goose bumps, or lack there of, from Kubiak not putting together a better product than Capers? Please give me something tangible.

Umm, you just gave "something tangible" and you didn't even know it. And I quote: "I am the first to critique someone as long as they have a record in their role as a Texan." Fact is, Kubiak has NO RECORD AT ALL as a head coach anywhere -- maybe not even Pop Warner! And this is the guy they pick to replace a man who led the team to the cusp of a .500 record in just three years with nothing but NFL rejects and raw rookies to work with? Nuff said.

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by Bobo

Umm, you just gave "something tangible" and you didn't even know it. And I quote: "I am the first to critique someone as long as they have a record in their role as a Texan." Fact is, Kubiak has NO RECORD AT ALL as a head coach anywhere -- maybe not even Pop Warner! And this is the guy they pick to replace a man who led the team to the cusp of a .500 record in just three years with nothing but NFL rejects and raw rookies to work with? Nuff said.

Nuff saying nothing about nothing. The subject was excitement. The tangible request has to do with your spite.

[Coach C.]

Bottomline Kubiak comes from a nice pedigree. He may be one of those guys like Capers and Mularkey and Saunders who are better assistant coaches than head coaches, but from what I know of the man he should have the better results. Hell he definately has a better team than Dom ever had.

[Bobo]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

Nuff saying nothing about nothing. The subject was excitement. The tangible request has to do with your spite.

When somebody has no experience and a spotty record, that has nothing to do with spite but has everything to do with questioning somebody's qualifications. If you've ever been to a job interview, you should realize that. Just because somebody doesn't hire somebody for a job due to lack of qualifications does not mean they are being spiteful.

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by Bobo

When somebody has no experience and a spotty record, that has nothing to do with spite but has everything to do with questioning somebody's qualifications. If you've ever been to a job interview, you should realize that. Just because somebody doesn't hire somebody for a job due to lack of qualifications does not mean they are being spiteful.

Yeah I know that side of the debate, but why do you dislike him? Is it the hype?

[Bobo]

Originally Posted by Coach C.

Bottomline Kubiak comes from a nice pedigree. He may be one of those guys like Capers and Mularkey and Saunders who are better assistant coaches than head coaches, but from what I know of the man he should have the better results. Hell he definately has a better team than Dom ever had.

A.) His "pedigree" has been spotty. Some success with Elway but spotty achievement after Elway left the building. B.) Capers was a fine head coach and to deny his accomplishments in his first three years is revisionist, disingenuous and unfair. C.) Seeing that he has absolutely no record as a head coach anywhere, I question your "knowledge of the man" in this capacity and your declaration of better results. D.) Seeing that most of the good players on his team are from the Capers era, I have to wonder why you say he has a better team than Dom ever had.

[Bobo]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

Yeah I know that side of the debate, but why do you dislike him? Is it the hype?

I think he is unqualified for the position and that he is several steps back from the person who should still be there. To think that I "personally" don't like him is pretty ridiculous since I wouldn't know him if I walked into him on the street. As far as the "hype" goes -- what hype?

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by Bobo

I think he is unqualified for the position and that he is several steps back from the person who should still be there. To think that I "personally" don't like him is pretty ridiculous since I wouldn't know him if I walked into him on the street. As far as the "hype" goes -- what hype?

Easy Cochise. Thank you for the first sentence. I could care less if you know him or not and recognize the sarcasm regarding hype. Looks like a win/win.