Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > The National Football League
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


The National Football League League News & Current Events

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-15-2006   #1
LORK 88
Wreck'em Ŧech!
 
LORK 88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Texas Tech
Age: 27
Posts: 1,205
Rep Power: 202 LORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respectedLORK 88 is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to LORK 88
Cool Marcedes Lewis Is As Good As Vernon Davis

Marcedes Lewis Is As Good As Vernon Davis
By Brad Lorkovic


4.38 seconds. That’s all it took Maryland’s Vernon Davis to run 40 yards which is a faster time than all but 3 Wide Receivers. Not only that, but that is the fastest time a Tight End has ever run at the combine. He also set the bar for Tight Ends lifting 225 pounds 33 times. To top it all off, he had a 42 inch vertical and had the longest broad jump (10’8”) by almost 10 inches. At combine workouts, no other Tight End looked more impressive during workouts or perhaps raised his stock quite as high as Davis has. He is expected to be a top 10 lock now after the month of February. However, is he the best VALUE at Tight End?

The easy and oblivious answer to this question is of course! Any idiot can look at these numbers, put 2 and 2 together, and tell he’s got everything you look for. However, as any football fan knows, the position goes a lot deeper than simple tests of athletic ability. There are certain abilities that effect how well you play the position that can’t be tested: toughness, red zone presence, blocking ability, and several other key factors. Several other factors like these put some of the other Tight Ends up there (if not over) Vernon Davis. For this and several other reasons, I feel Marcedes Lewis is the best value at Tight End.

My 1st argument for saying Lewis is a better value than Davis is based on where these two players were drafted. With the 6th overall pick in the 2006 draft, Vernon Davis became a San Francisco 49er. In fact, he is only the 4th TE in the past 20 years to go top 10 overall (Kyle Brady in ’95, Rickey Dudley in ’96, and Kellen Winslow in ’04 being the other two). While you may be thinking that he is definitely worth that pick, out of those 3 above, none have made the pro bowl with the exception of Kyle Brady who was a 1st alternate in 2001. Now, compare that to Marcedes Lewis who got drafted by the Jacksonville Jaguars with the 29th pick in this year’s draft. In other words, there is a lot more pressure to statistically out-do Lewis by a great deal of yardage, but based on college production, this brings me to my second point, production.

Now you may be asking yourself, why did I bring up draft grades? Obviously Lewis and Davis got those grades for a reason! However, like I briefly mentioned above, Marcedes Lewis and Vernon Davis had very identical stats in college. In 2005, Lewis had 58 catches for 741 yards and 10 TDs while Davis had 51catches for 871 yards and 6 TDs. Lewis had more catches and TDs while Davis had 130 more yards. However, what jumps out most to people is the difference in TD totals, a crucial part of being a TE. Now days, Tight Ends are most known for being red zone targets and safety blankets over the middle. In fact, out of the top 25 leaders in TD receptions last year, 5 of them were Tight Ends.

“Okay, well Davis is still a physical freak compared to Lewis!” While he did post faster times, and bench press 225 more times (which is a test that still has very little football relevance), part of it boils down to potential. Davis at the combine came in at 6’3” 253 pounds while Lewis came in at 6’6” 256 pounds. Currently, Davis is listed at 6’3” 253 pounds still while Lewis is at 6’6” 262 pounds. In a matter of about three months, Lewis jumped up 6 pounds while Davis stayed the same. While this still might not seem like much, the point I’m trying to make is that Lewis has great size potential while Davis has peaked out. He can get bigger, faster, and stronger while it will be hard for Davis to do any of these things.

The final piece to this puzzle has to do with where these players where drafted. Like stated earlier, Davis went to the 49ers, while Lewis went to Jacksonville. Jacksonville’s offense finished a respectable 15th overall while being 19th in passing. Davis’ new team the 49ers finished last in total offense and passing. Not enough evidence you say? How about the fact that Jacksonville’s QB Byron Leftwich has never had a QB rating lower than 73 for his career, while Alex Smith (San Francisco’s QB) had a QB rating of 40.8 while posting a TD to INT ratio of 1 to 11 last year. In fact, Alex Smith’s rookie QB rating of 40.8 is one of the worst in NFL history. While Davis may help Smith out, Lewis obviously has the better QB. He also has more talent around him so he can go unnoticed and won’t get double teamed like Davis probably will.

So why did I do this? Am I a Vernon Davis hater extraordinaire? A hardcore Marcedes Lewis fan? To be honest, it’s neither. I just personally feel that because of the reasons listed above, Lewis will be just as great as Davis. It’s nothing personal against Davis, I just don’t agree with all this hype about him being all-world, kind of like Reggie Bush already being called a Hall Of Fame Player without having taken an NFL snap. And to think I call myself a Texan fan . . .
__________________
LORK 88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #2
kiwitexansfan
Site Contributor
 
kiwitexansfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Age: 37
Posts: 9,364
Rep Power: 90711 kiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

You are 100% correct neither has ever caught a ball or thrown a block in the NFL. Meaning they are just as productive and effective as one another.
kiwitexansfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #3
thetexanator
All Pro
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 843
Rep Power: 3484 thetexanator is a quality contributor and well respectedthetexanator is a quality contributor and well respectedthetexanator is a quality contributor and well respectedthetexanator is a quality contributor and well respectedthetexanator is a quality contributor and well respectedthetexanator is a quality contributor and well respectedthetexanator is a quality contributor and well respectedthetexanator is a quality contributor and well respectedthetexanator is a quality contributor and well respectedthetexanator is a quality contributor and well respectedthetexanator is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

no way, lewis is soft, and is slower than davis. lewis is closer to billy miller than vernon davis
thetexanator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #4
TexanFan881
Hall of Fame
 
TexanFan881's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Illinois
Age: 24
Posts: 2,801
Rep Power: 1791 TexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanFan881 is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to TexanFan881
Default

Vernon Davis is a freak of nature. There's no way you can compare any TE to him in the draft. Lewis is not a freak and he is nothing but maybe above average. That's why one was picked 6th and one was picked 28th.
__________________
Proud Adoptee Of Our Future Starting Running Back Chris Taylor
TexanFan881 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #5
SESupergenius
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Lewis is slow to get open and his hands are very questionable.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #6
AtheGreat
Veteran
 
AtheGreat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: back row, far right
Posts: 345
Rep Power: 9 AtheGreat is ridin' the pine
Default

I really thought Lewis was pretty good but i looked at his stats last year, and for a TE of the year (if im not mistaken) its not that good. 714yds 10tds. May be the offense he was in, but...looking at sized and ability, there isn't much to compare him to VD.
AtheGreat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #7
gtexan02
Working?
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Boston
Age: 30
Posts: 15,670
Rep Power: 66827 gtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respectedgtexan02 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Sounds like the arguments made from someone who looked purely at stat sheets. Watch these guys and you would have known there as a huge difference.

By the way, arguing that a TE drafted at 6 won't live up to his hype because other top 10 TEs haven't isnt a great argument
__________________
Drinking the kool aid
gtexan02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 05-15-2006   #8
Fldvldog
Veteran
 
Fldvldog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orange Park FL.
Age: 33
Posts: 351
Rep Power: 10 Fldvldog is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SESupergenius
...and his hands are very questionable.
You are 100% incorrect. He catches pretty much anything thrown in his direction. I'm not sure where you heard that bs (unless you made it up, of course).

But, i think that Vernon Davis will be a great player in this league, but not right away. Meanwhile, i think Marcedes will make an immediate impact in the Jags' offense, especially since Jimmy's departure. He will be that security blanket down the middle of the field for Leftwich. Great size, and apparently, is beginning to bulk up more.

And just for the record, while at Friday's mini camp, I noticed that Marcedes is exceptionally fast getting off the LOS. He has great hands, from what I saw, and has a great attitude. I am so glad we picked this kid up.
Fldvldog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #9
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
 
kastofsna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 7,438
Rep Power: 406 kastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

no doubt about it, davis is the best h-back in the draft. lewis is the best tight end.
kastofsna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #10
Fldvldog
Veteran
 
Fldvldog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orange Park FL.
Age: 33
Posts: 351
Rep Power: 10 Fldvldog is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kastofsna
no doubt about it, davis is the best h-back in the draft. lewis is the best tight end.
I completely agree.
Fldvldog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #11
Huge
Hall of Fame
 
Huge's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Out yonder way...
Age: 42
Posts: 2,386
Rep Power: 16 Huge was voted MVPHuge was voted MVPHuge was voted MVPHuge was voted MVP
Default

Putting up ridiculous numbers at the combine makes you a better draft prospect.

Being a better draft prospect does not make you the better player.
Huge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #12
SESupergenius
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fldvldog
You are 100% incorrect. He catches pretty much anything thrown in his direction. I'm not sure where you heard that bs (unless you made it up, of course).

But, i think that Vernon Davis will be a great player in this league, but not right away. Meanwhile, i think Marcedes will make an immediate impact in the Jags' offense, especially since Jimmy's departure. He will be that security blanket down the middle of the field for Leftwich. Great size, and apparently, is beginning to bulk up more.

And just for the record, while at Friday's mini camp, I noticed that Marcedes is exceptionally fast getting off the LOS. He has great hands, from what I saw, and has a great attitude. I am so glad we picked this kid up.
It's not BS I didn't make it up, saw him in person at the Sun Bowl where he seemed to have a case of the dropsies in a very big game. I looked at him feverishly considering that the Texans needed a TE and he was a prospect. I was very unimpressed with his catching abilities and his blocking was pretty weak.

Declaring Him as a ROY in 2006 states your bias towards him and your intellect, thanks for playing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #13
Trapped
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Age: 29
Posts: 229
Rep Power: 10 Trapped is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kastofsna
no doubt about it, davis is the best h-back in the draft. lewis is the best tight end.
Davis is the best h-back who i think can play the TE position better then Lewis too.

Davis in my opinion can't be nuetralized out their on the football feild. While i think a Good-Great Lber can completely shut Lewis down.

Of course we have to see them play football.
__________________
Most users ever online was 1,493, 04-28-2006 at 09:04 PM
Trapped is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #14
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
 
kastofsna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 7,438
Rep Power: 406 kastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

davis got shutdown at the line many times, especially against FSU, BC, va tech and even wake forest. most of his success came from when he split out at WR or lined up as a h-back.
kastofsna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #15
Fldvldog
Veteran
 
Fldvldog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orange Park FL.
Age: 33
Posts: 351
Rep Power: 10 Fldvldog is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SESupergenius
It's not BS I didn't make it up, saw him in person at the Sun Bowl where he seemed to have a case of the dropsies in a very big game. I looked at him feverishly considering that the Texans needed a TE and he was a prospect. I was very unimpressed with his catching abilities and his blocking was pretty weak.

Declaring Him as a ROY in 2006 states your bias towards him and your intellect, thanks for playing.
Your judging him on one game that you saw him play? Have you consistently seen him play throughout his career? I seriously doubt it. He has been in many big games thoughout his career, in which he shined. Judging him on one game is pure ignorance. But, from the two post I have seen from you, I don't expect much on your part.

I am not biased what-so-ever. He has the best hands out of anybody in the draft, bottom line. And his blocking isn't "pretty weak." It is his only flaw that seems to overshadow his total package. I know that he will need to improve it, but thats what practice does, there smart one.

Check mate.
Fldvldog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #16
kastofsna
Hall of Fame
 
kastofsna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 7,438
Rep Power: 406 kastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respectedkastofsna is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

no one has better hands than mike hass. but lewis does have good hands, no doubt about it.
kastofsna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2006   #17
Fldvldog
Veteran
 
Fldvldog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orange Park FL.
Age: 33
Posts: 351
Rep Power: 10 Fldvldog is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kastofsna
no one has better hands than mike hass. but lewis does have good hands, no doubt about it.
Touche. Totally forgot about Hass.
Fldvldog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2006   #18
SESupergenius
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fldvldog
Your judging him on one game that you saw him play? Have you consistently seen him play throughout his career? I seriously doubt it. He has been in many big games thoughout his career, in which he shined. Judging him on one game is pure ignorance. But, from the two post I have seen from you, I don't expect much on your part.

I am not biased what-so-ever. He has the best hands out of anybody in the draft, bottom line. And his blocking isn't "pretty weak." It is his only flaw that seems to overshadow his total package. I know that he will need to improve it, but thats what practice does, there smart one.

Check mate.
Oh please, don't bring that "homer" weak take in here. Could you have more of a man crush on him right now? I've seen enough of Lewis to know what I see. Oh, and don't even let me mention him at the Senior Bowl. He did the same thing he did there that he did in the Sun Bowl, bobbled a catch and almost got run over on a blitz. He is far from a great player or rookie of the year. He's not tough to go over the middle against the big boys, but sure she can catch one over the shoulder when someone's playing him soft, making himself look all pretty. That won't translate in the NFL. He's SOFT! practice isn't going to help just like practice didn't help Billy Miller (going on his 4th team now). His hands are about as soft as you weak takes.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2006   #19
Fldvldog
Veteran
 
Fldvldog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orange Park FL.
Age: 33
Posts: 351
Rep Power: 10 Fldvldog is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SESupergenius
Oh please, don't bring that "homer" weak take in here. Could you have more of a man crush on him right now? I've seen enough of Lewis to know what I see. Oh, and don't even let me mention him at the Senior Bowl. He did the same thing he did there that he did in the Sun Bowl, bobbled a catch and almost got run over on a blitz. He is far from a great player or rookie of the year. He's not tough to go over the middle against the big boys, but sure she can catch one over the shoulder when someone's playing him soft, making himself look all pretty. That won't translate in the NFL. He's SOFT! practice isn't going to help just like practice didn't help Billy Miller (going on his 4th team now).
Homer weak take in? Man crush? All your credibility went down the toilet on that one, skippy

Once again...2 games out of many. That shouldn't overshadow the fact that he has nearly dominated the position basically for his entire college career. And if your saying he wont get ROY because of the type of play you saw from him in 2 games, you are delusional. He has been fantastic in mini camp so far. Trust me, I've seen it first hand. yes, i know the pads were off, but he has proved alot this past week, such as how overrated the 40 time is. He wont go over the middle? We'll see about that. And I have a feeling you will see that first hand when we play the texans. Call him soft. You'll soon find out.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SESupergenius
His hands are about as soft as you weak takes.
Sorry, but I couldn't resist this last one. My side is still hurting
Fldvldog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2006   #20
SESupergenius
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

First it was one game now it's two games, how many big games do you want me to point out. LOL, that was one of the weakest takes I've seen in a long while. Everyone looks good in minicamps, LOL. You've got a long way to go when you evaluate a talent just by peeking at them in shorts and T-shirts on a nice confortable day. Get the pads on and let him go against true NFL talent and balls out speed, you'll see him flop down like there's a insurgent RPG coming or something.

And if you want to talk about credibility:

07-12-2005 - "I expect Leftwich to excell this season. He has a young and talented wide reciever corps that can only get better. He has a cannon for an arm, and has worked on his accuracy pretty much the entire"

LOL!

Last edited by SESupergenius; 05-17-2006 at 08:17 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > Football Talk > The National Football League
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger