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Old 05-02-2006   #1
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Default Which player is more part-time, Bush or Williams?

Okay, after getting tired of Casserly's spin machine talking about how Mario will get 60 snaps and Bush will only touch the ball around 20 times a game, I have had enough. Let's do some real analysis to prove he is full of cow manure.

1) If picking a player at #1 who only touches the ball 20 times is a consideration, how many touches has Andre Johnson had a game? How about Desmond Howard? How many touches did he get a game. He didn't seem to have a problem picking a "part-time" player in those circumstances.

2) NFL.com analalyzed every play Mario Williams was directly involved in vs. how many snaps he took last year. Overall, they deduced that he impacted one play out of every 9.5 snaps playing both defensive end and defensive tackle. Now, assuming he plays 60 snaps a game, that translates into 6 plays that he directly impacts the game. Six Charlie, not sixty like you are espousing.

Like Bush he will impact the game in other ways, and I understand that. That's the same for both guys. My point is that he will "touch" the ball actually much less than Bush, not more. In conclusion, Bush would have a MUCH higher direct impact on the game on offense, than Mario would on defense. Get me out of the spin machine, I am dizzy. :brickwall
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Old 05-02-2006   #2
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Mario will probably command a double-team from time to time. Does that count as an impact play?
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Old 05-02-2006   #3
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What if Bush does not make it to training camp because of a hold out and winds up not getting 20 touches per game?
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Old 05-02-2006   #4
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You're comparision to Andre Johnson doesn't work because while he is not touching the ball every down, he is lining up most downs. "Leon" is often on the sidelines while the true running back is in there mostly against the faster defenses. That was according to the USC coaches.

Casserly isn't spinning anything. I can't stand Casserly anymore than the next guy and I have vented here about that before, however what he is saying about Bush was what I was saying before the draft. I called him a part time player also. The fact he was on the sidelines during most of the 4th QTR in the Rose Bowl and not in there when the game was on the line spoke volumes.
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Old 05-02-2006   #5
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He will be on the field for more than 20 snaps. He should be out there for 40 or so, with 20-25 touches. Sorry, I am not buying this whole part time player thing. It's pure spin.
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Old 05-02-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky
Okay, after getting tired of Casserly's spin machine talking about how Mario will get 60 snaps and Bush will only touch the ball around 20 times a game, I have had enough. Let's do some real analysis to prove he is full of cow manure.

1) If picking a player at #1 who only touches the ball 20 times is a consideration, how many touches has Andre Johnson had a game? How about Desmond Howard? How many touches did he get a game. He didn't seem to have a problem picking a "part-time" player in those circumstances.

2) NFL.com analalyzed every play Mario Williams was directly involved in vs. how many snaps he took last year. Overall, they deduced that he impacted one play out of every 9.5 snaps playing both defensive end and defensive tackle. Now, assuming he plays 60 snaps a game, that translates into 6 plays that he directly impacts the game. Six Charlie, not sixty like you are espousing.

Like Bush he will impact the game in other ways, and I understand that. That's the same for both guys. My point is that he will "touch" the ball actually much less than Bush, not more. In conclusion, Bush would have a MUCH higher direct impact on the game on offense, than Mario would on defense. Get me out of the spin machine, I am dizzy. :brickwall
The problem I find with the logic is the subjective term "impact." If Reggie touches the ball ten times but still runs 100+ yards a game, is that more of an impact than Mario touching the ball, for example, 5 times, but each is for a sack for a loss?

IMO, the only way to look at it objectively is the simple numbers of 60 vs. 20. Mario will be on the field more than Bush, and that was the point Cass was trying to make.
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Old 05-02-2006   #7
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Both players are potentially impact players, just on different sides of the ball. Bush would have added dimension to our offense, because we'd have multiple players that could demand double teams. But a presence like Mario on your line (with Weaver on the other end) also causes enemy offenses to gameplan accordingly.

Our head coach decided that our defense needed the pick more than our offense, so hey, it's his team and it's and understandable choice.

I don't think either pick was "wrong", except in the eyes of fans.
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Old 05-02-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the wonger need food
Mario will probably command a double-team from time to time. Does that count as an impact play?
I would say yes. Weaver may be teh most benefitted by Williams being drafted.
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Old 05-02-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky
He will be on the field for more than 20 snaps. He should be out there for 40 or so, with 20-25 touches. Sorry, I am not buying this whole part time player thing. It's pure spin.

If bush carries the ball 20-25 touches per game, he will not last past midseason as his little body is not conditioned for that type of punishment. teams did not respect the Saints passing attack, therefore many teams are going to load the box and go right after him.
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Old 05-02-2006   #10
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Not to mention that NFC South defenses don't seem as forgiving as Pac-10 defenses.
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Old 05-02-2006   #11
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Porky stop it. I'm the Texans offense and I'm already beautiful. Reggie Bush would be like really long annoying earrings. Who needs those awful things when you look like this?
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Old 05-02-2006   #12
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Just because BUsh touches the ball 20 times a game, doesn't mean he only lines up 20 times a game. Lets say we run and pass on a 50/50 split. That means that if Bush runs 20 times a game, he is lining up 40 times and not getting the ball. Its exactly the same as Williams lining up and the team running ot the opposite side. They have to account for him even if he isn't carrying. 20 touches is not realistic
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Old 05-02-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porky
Okay, after getting tired of Casserly's spin machine talking about how Mario will get 60 snaps and Bush will only touch the ball around 20 times a game, I have had enough. Let's do some real analysis to prove he is full of cow manure.

1) If picking a player at #1 who only touches the ball 20 times is a consideration, how many touches has Andre Johnson had a game? How about Desmond Howard? How many touches did he get a game. He didn't seem to have a problem picking a "part-time" player in those circumstances.

2) NFL.com analalyzed every play Mario Williams was directly involved in vs. how many snaps he took last year. Overall, they deduced that he impacted one play out of every 9.5 snaps playing both defensive end and defensive tackle. Now, assuming he plays 60 snaps a game, that translates into 6 plays that he directly impacts the game. Six Charlie, not sixty like you are espousing.

Like Bush he will impact the game in other ways, and I understand that. That's the same for both guys. My point is that he will "touch" the ball actually much less than Bush, not more. In conclusion, Bush would have a MUCH higher direct impact on the game on offense, than Mario would on defense. Get me out of the spin machine, I am dizzy. :brickwall
Umm, the job for RBs is to touch the ball and gain yards in the process. The object for the DE is to "touch" the RBs, the QBs or to hurry the throws and cause INTs. Williams will be on the field doing that every time the defense is on the field. Fact is, Williams will be on the field doing his job much more than Bush would have. You are really stretching it.
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Old 05-02-2006   #14
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I would say yes. Weaver may be teh most benefitted by Williams being drafted.
Im sure that our linebackers wouldn't be hurt by that. If you can guess on a double team, blow up that inside gap with a blitzing LB and wrek havoc in the backfield.
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Old 05-02-2006   #15
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Originally Posted by gtexan02
Just because BUsh touches the ball 20 times a game, doesn't mean he only lines up 20 times a game. Lets say we run and pass on a 50/50 split. That means that if Bush runs 20 times a game, he is lining up 40 times and not getting the ball. Its exactly the same as Williams lining up and the team running ot the opposite side. They have to account for him even if he isn't carrying. 20 touches is not realistic
If you aren't stopping the other team, then NOBODY is getting any touches or line ups or anything. The offense is sitting on the sidelines, getting paid for nothing.
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Old 05-02-2006   #16
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The only reason Lawson & McCargo (the other 2 NC State DL) were drafted in the first round was b/c of Mario Williams. Because even when he wasn't "making plays" he would always command at least a double team which freed up the other players to make plays.

Thus by geting him it improves Travis Johnson (another 1st round pick), Anothony Weaver, & Robaire Smith. Not only that, but it helps keeps lineman off of our linebackers to help them makes plays which in turn helps the secondary.

Therefore you keep Mario on the field every down he has an impact on EVERY play whether he gets a sack or tackle or not.
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Old 05-02-2006   #17
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If you aren't stopping the other team, then NOBODY is getting any touches or line ups or anything. The offense is sitting on the sidelines, getting paid for nothing.
They didn't stop anyone because they saw Uncle Joe planning the next 3 plays and Fly Trap mouth staring blankly on the sidelines. That's tough to get up for.
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Old 05-02-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David's Busted Carr
The only reason Lawson & McCargo (the other 2 NC State DL) were drafted in the first round was b/c of Mario Williams. Because even when he wasn't "making plays" he would always command at least a double team which freed up the other players to make plays.

Thus by geting him it improves Travis Johnson (another 1st round pick), Anothony Weaver, & Robaire Smith. Not only that, but it helps keeps lineman off of our linebackers to help them makes plays which in turn helps the secondary.

Therefore you keep Mario on the field every down he has an impact on EVERY play whether he gets a sack or tackle or not.
Exactly.

Reminds me of Peppers and Simms being drafted in the same year.
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Old 05-02-2006   #19
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This is a nobrainer...Bush
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Old 05-02-2006   #20
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Originally Posted by the wonger need food
Mario will probably command a double-team from time to time. Does that count as an impact play?

I think he meant direct impact, because just having RB on the field changes how the defense plays...
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