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Old 05-02-2006   #1
playoff year please
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Default I am amazed at the response this team gets from fans and media.

Look people, many thought this team was a potential wild card hopefull last year. Of course their record stunk. Capers was a terrible coach. All 4 seasons had a potential to win more games if we were more aggressive. This team is now better than they were before last season. Kubiak will not play to just be in the game in the 4th quarter, he will put a team away if he can. He will make his team fight till the end and won't make excuses and say we had a chance. We must rally behind this team. We can't watch what happens with Bush or Young and say what if, because they could have come here and died of heat stroke in training camp. Nobody knows what happens when you put different players in different situations. This team is pretty good in my opinion, they just lacked a leader. Now we got one, so lets kick some horses butts.
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Old 05-02-2006   #2
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Sorry to be the Bobo of this thread, but I've lost all my confidence in this coaching staff. Sure maybe they thought Williams was the best choice, but if all the other GMs had Bush rated higher, don't you think that means they would have to scheme more to stop Bush than Williams? Also, why do we need 8 starting-caliber DEs (Williams, Weaver, Payne, Smith, Johnson, Babin, Kalu, and Peek). Why have we tied so much money into our DL?

The fact of the matter is that our HC had one of the easiest decisions in the history of football. And they blew it. What if its 4th and 6 and playoffs are on the line? Will we run a slant to AJ or a run up the middle? I don't know any more, as Kubiak has proven he cannot be trusted to make wise football choices. He is batting 0.000 right now

We're going to have to make some huge salary cap cuts in order to make room for this 54 million dollar DE after signing Weaver for a Pro-Bowl contract and spending half our previous drafts on Babin
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Old 05-02-2006   #3
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what if it was 4th and 6 and we were on defense and mario stuffs the run or makes the sack or pressures the qb to make a bad throw or deflects the pass with his hands??????????. We don't know but i really do like the defensive additions and the o-line additions in this draft. I liked Reggie but I think we needed Mario aslong as he does become an elite DE.
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Old 05-02-2006   #4
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I'm not amazed at all. Listen, I know it is great to be part homer and agree with almost everything they have done but in general the paying customer has every right to voice an opinion on the subject. They are an expansion franchise that in 4 years rose some and then went back to square one. Everyone making decisions (I guess not Charlie because he defers all decisions to everyone else...Teflon CC..smell the sarcasm) has to take responsibity for the decisions and what happened. I'm excited about Kubiak but there is no saying..sitting here right now that the team will thrive under him. Like draft picks it is a wonderful hope that I hold onto. We, IMHO, have made strides but until they hit the field and grow over the next couple of years we won't know what we have. In reality, considering their 4 year history, the media and fans have every right to be weary until the oranization turns it around and earns the respect.
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Old 05-02-2006   #5
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Originally Posted by gtexan02
Sorry to be the Bobo of this thread, but I've lost all my confidence in this coaching staff. Sure maybe they thought Williams was the best choice, but if all the other GMs had Bush rated higher, don't you think that means they would have to scheme more to stop Bush than Williams?
Not all of the GMs had Bush as No. 1. You need to pay attention better.

Read this for starters:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_yl...=tsn&type=lgns

Here, I'll make it easy on you. This is the important part:

Yet not every team has Bush first on their draft board. At least seven have Williams rated No. 1. "I think Williams is the cleanest player in the draft -- no flaws in his game," says one NFL general manager who had Williams first. "He is an impact player, a rare guy at a valuable position. Bush is rare, too, a special college player. But will he be special in the pros? You wonder about his durability."

Now that I've gotten over the shock of it, I'm really warming up to the fact they had the stones to do what they thought was right.

Almost forgot, I need to pay the balance on my season tickets. I'll do that right now.
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Old 05-02-2006   #6
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Originally Posted by playoff year please
Look people, many thought this team was a potential wild card hopefull last year. Of course their record stunk. Capers was a terrible coach. All 4 seasons had a potential to win more games if we were more aggressive. This team is now better than they were before last season. Kubiak will not play to just be in the game in the 4th quarter, he will put a team away if he can. He will make his team fight till the end and won't make excuses and say we had a chance. We must rally behind this team. We can't watch what happens with Bush or Young and say what if, because they could have come here and died of heat stroke in training camp. Nobody knows what happens when you put different players in different situations. This team is pretty good in my opinion, they just lacked a leader. Now we got one, so lets kick some horses butts.
truth is, even as bad as we were, we could have won a lot more games, if we were a little more aggresive...... sure, there were some dropped balls, but you gotta keep firing...
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Old 05-02-2006   #7
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Originally Posted by gtexan02
Sure maybe they thought Williams was the best choice, but if all the other GMs had Bush rated higher
And how do you know this? Do you have anything to back it up? Everyone clamored about Bush being once in a lifetime player, but would that not suggest that you must do whatever it takes to get him? 30 teams decided not to trade up for him and one team passed on him. New Orlenas did not receive a call from Friday night to Saturday before they were on the clock. People bought into the hype and they deserve the red arses that they have because of it.
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Old 05-02-2006   #8
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We dont have 8 starting quality DE's

Johnson, Smith and Payne are DT's

Kalu is nothing but a back up. Babin hasn't proved he can be a quality NFL pass rusher yet.

By my count that leaves us with 3, Weaver Peek, and Super Mario.

Weaver isn't a pass rusher. So that would leave us with one "pass rusher" and he has been far from dominant.
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Old 05-02-2006   #9
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Originally Posted by gtexan02
Also, why do we need 8 starting-caliber DEs (Williams, Weaver, Payne, Smith, Johnson, Babin, Kalu, and Peek). Why have we tied so much money into our DL?
Babin and Peek arent starting caliber DE, they are tweeners who could play clear passing downs and rush the passer.Payne, Johnson, and Smith are DTs so they are out. Kalu is a vet on a 1 yr contract who is there mostly for TC competition. So that leaves two starting DE: Weaver and Williams. Weaver is more of a run stuffing DE and will play DT on passing downs. They needed a true everydown pass rusher who won be a complete bullseye in the run game, and they got him.
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Old 05-02-2006   #10
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Originally Posted by gtexan02
Sorry to be the Bobo of this thread, but I've lost all my confidence in this coaching staff. Sure maybe they thought Williams was the best choice, but if all the other GMs had Bush rated higher, don't you think that means they would have to scheme more to stop Bush than Williams? Also, why do we need 8 starting-caliber DEs (Williams, Weaver, Payne, Smith, Johnson, Babin, Kalu, and Peek). Why have we tied so much money into our DL?

The fact of the matter is that our HC had one of the easiest decisions in the history of football. And they blew it. What if its 4th and 6 and playoffs are on the line? Will we run a slant to AJ or a run up the middle? I don't know any more, as Kubiak has proven he cannot be trusted to make wise football choices. He is batting 0.000 right now

We're going to have to make some huge salary cap cuts in order to make room for this 54 million dollar DE after signing Weaver for a Pro-Bowl contract and spending half our previous drafts on Babin

I just wish I had the all-knowning insight to all like you do. I wish I could predict the future.. and had a thing for Bush to say he is our savior.

But I dont.

You need to either get over the fact that our new coach had the nads to step up and make football descisions for his team to ultimately improve it, and making moves to make us the best team in the world, or move to a different board. You apparently know nothing of our needs and what outstanding moves he has done since he has been here to change them. You take a Offensive coach for 7 years who felt the powerhouse was in the offense, and he saw something in Williams that made him feel he was the best choice. You can scoff and complain all you want, but since K has been here.. We have gotten alot better.
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Old 05-02-2006   #11
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Originally Posted by gtexan02
Sorry to be the Bobo of this thread, but I've lost all my confidence in this coaching staff. Sure maybe they thought Williams was the best choice, but if all the other GMs had Bush rated higher, don't you think that means they would have to scheme more to stop Bush than Williams? Also, why do we need 8 starting-caliber DEs (Williams, Weaver, Payne, Smith, Johnson, Babin, Kalu, and Peek). Why have we tied so much money into our DL?

The fact of the matter is that our HC had one of the easiest decisions in the history of football. And they blew it. What if its 4th and 6 and playoffs are on the line? Will we run a slant to AJ or a run up the middle? I don't know any more, as Kubiak has proven he cannot be trusted to make wise football choices. He is batting 0.000 right now

We're going to have to make some huge salary cap cuts in order to make room for this 54 million dollar DE after signing Weaver for a Pro-Bowl contract and spending half our previous drafts on Babin
How can you lose confidence in a staff before they have ever caoched a down?

I'm really confused by this.
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Old 05-02-2006   #12
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Originally Posted by SnakeOilTanker
We dont have 8 starting quality DE's

Johnson, Smith and Payne are DT's

Kalu is nothing but a back up. Babin hasn't proved he can be a quality NFL pass rusher yet.

By my count that leaves us with 3, Weaver Peek, and Super Mario.

Weaver isn't a pass rusher. So that would leave us with one "pass rusher" and he has been far from dominant.
Rofl... some people can just be funny.

So.. We have 3 DT's.. I agree.
Babin hasnt proved anything... oh really, A DE in college hasnt proved anything in the Pro's when he was moved to LB. Oh wait, he HASNT PLAYED DE for us yet, which was his skill. Maybe you should get off his back until you seehim play DE ths year.

Your going to bash Weaver already... freaking unreal. Hasnt played a down and you are already judging him based on this scheme. Dude.. you need to get some caffine in you. Your grumpy in the morning.
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Old 05-02-2006   #13
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Originally Posted by gtexan02
Sorry to be the Bobo of this thread, but I've lost all my confidence in this coaching staff. Sure maybe they thought Williams was the best choice, but if all the other GMs had Bush rated higher, don't you think that means they would have to scheme more to stop Bush than Williams? Also, why do we need 8 starting-caliber DEs (Williams, Weaver, Payne, Smith, Johnson, Babin, Kalu, and Peek). Why have we tied so much money into our DL?

The fact of the matter is that our HC had one of the easiest decisions in the history of football. And they blew it. What if its 4th and 6 and playoffs are on the line? Will we run a slant to AJ or a run up the middle? I don't know any more, as Kubiak has proven he cannot be trusted to make wise football choices. He is batting 0.000 right now

We're going to have to make some huge salary cap cuts in order to make room for this 54 million dollar DE after signing Weaver for a Pro-Bowl contract and spending half our previous drafts on Babin
Wow, that's amazing, we haven't even played one down of training camp, preseason, not to mention a regular season game. And you have lost confidence in the staff. I just don't get it......

Let the staff do their work, show some faith.
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Old 05-02-2006   #14
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Babin and Peek arent starting caliber DE, they are tweeners who could play clear passing downs and rush the passer.Payne, Johnson, and Smith are DTs so they are out. Kalu is a vet on a 1 yr contract who is there mostly for TC competition. So that leaves two starting DE: Weaver and Williams. Weaver is more of a run stuffing DE and will play DT on passing downs. They needed a true everydown pass rusher who won be a complete bullseye in the run game, and they got him.
And see... some people have had thier caffine.
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Old 05-02-2006   #15
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[quote=gtexan02]Sorry to be the Bobo of this thread, but I've lost all my confidence in this coaching staff. Sure maybe they thought Williams was the best choice, but if all the other GMs had Bush rated higher, don't you think that means they would have to scheme more to stop Bush than Williams?

Wow not even one call on the field and you have lost all confidence? That's pretty extreme. There is a reason most teams in this league have been perennial losers for years on end. They essentially don't know how to build a great team and adjust to the changes in the game. The Patriots collectively found a philosophy that promotes winning. The aspects include great defense, the team is more important than the individual, and good game planning. There will be ten new head coaches in the league this year. Clearly finding someone to help put a team together is a challenge. As a contrarian if most coaches think Reggie was a better pick than Mario then the chances are Mario was the best pick. There are only a few FO's in the league who are enjoying a lot of success. NE, Pitt, Denver, Seattle, Indy and Philly. I think Kubiak from the moves that have been made fits into this mold. Time will tell. In the meantime I personally don't care what the consensus among most teams are because most have never won much. The Walsh's and Belichiks' of the game are few and far between but Kubiak's moves have the NE team philosophy blueprint all over them. As one who believes the best way to find life the way it was intended is by giving it away it makes sense to me that to have success on the field you need to find guys who are willing to sacrifice themselves for a greater good. That has clearly been the case so far with no exceptions and this certainly includes passing on Reggie if all the accusations are indeed true. This is all very encouraging IMO.
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Old 05-02-2006   #16
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Originally Posted by gtexan02
Sorry to be the Bobo of this thread, but I've lost all my confidence in this coaching staff. Sure maybe they thought Williams was the best choice, but if all the other GMs had Bush rated higher, don't you think that means they would have to scheme more to stop Bush than Williams? Also, why do we need 8 starting-caliber DEs (Williams, Weaver, Payne, Smith, Johnson, Babin, Kalu, and Peek). Why have we tied so much money into our DL?
First, the names in bold are not starting caliber DEs. three of the eight, aren't even DEs........ if they are listed as DEs in a 3-4, they are really DTs.
Peek is too small to think he would start as a DE on any NFL team. & Kalu....... I'm not sure, but I don't think he is starting caliber on a good team.

secondly, it's about fit. Look at D'Brick, sure, he'll be a dang good OT on at least 70% of NFL teams..... but not in Denver... hence, we don't value him as highly as 70%(+) teams. Reggie, I don't care what everyone else says.... Shanahan, and no one who has ever bought into what he is doing in Denver values a runningback(regardless who he is) as a #1 pick. The only thing Kubiak was interested in, was his trade value, and you can take that to the bank.

That definitely puts Shanahan(and his coaching tree) in a minority amoung NFL coaches..... which is why you can get a ProBowl Cornerback for a 2nd round running back.

This league has found no problem stoping Brian Westbrook, Marshall Faulk, or Michael Vick. Scheming will beat speed everytime. It might take teams time to figure out the puzzle, but it'll be cracked eventually.

Look what happened to Steve Smith in Dallas.

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Originally Posted by gtexan02
The fact of the matter is that our HC had one of the easiest decisions in the history of football. And they blew it. What if its 4th and 6 and playoffs are on the line? Will we run a slant to AJ or a run up the middle? I don't know any more, as Kubiak has proven he cannot be trusted to make wise football choices. He is batting 0.000 right now
What if it's 4th and short...... and you need that first to put the game away. do you have Reggie on the sideline holding you hand??

We got Moulds for a 5th, and less than $4 million a year. We've got a ProBowl Center. We've got Walthers for a 4th..... We've got a young tightend, that's proven in the passing game..... We've got a running system, that will change a 4.1 ypc to a 5 ypc.......

We picked up the 3rd best Ofensive Tackle in this draft, plus an outstandingly athletic prospect for LT, both in the third round. Most of us would have pulled the trigger on Winston early in the second, and we would have missed Demeco Ryans, who all these experts you agree with considered a great pickup in the second.

So purely football decisions, I think most people agree that Kubiak is batting a thousand..(1.000)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02
We're going to have to make some huge salary cap cuts in order to make room for this 54 million dollar DE after signing Weaver for a Pro-Bowl contract and spending half our previous drafts on Babin
Kubiak has inherited a mess...... he still has to make the right decisions for this team. He's done a great job improving the talent on offense... who has a better tandem @ WR?? Who has the better QB?? Who has the best running game in the AFC south?? In our division, I think we hold the #1 or the #2 spot in all those questions.

Now defensively?? We've got the youngest most explosive front 4..... depending how they line up. But if we put

Babin......... Smith........... Williams....... Peek

in the game, somebody's getting hurt.
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Old 05-02-2006   #17
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Rofl... some people can just be funny.

So.. We have 3 DT's.. I agree.
Babin hasnt proved anything... oh really, A DE in college hasnt proved anything in the Pro's when he was moved to LB. Oh wait, he HASNT PLAYED DE for us yet, which was his skill. Maybe you should get off his back until you seehim play DE ths year.

Your going to bash Weaver already... freaking unreal. Hasnt played a down and you are already judging him based on this scheme. Dude.. you need to get some caffine in you. Your grumpy in the morning.
I'm not bashing Weaver, I think he's a really good addition..he's just not a push rusher, he's a run stopper.

Yao Ming isn't a point guard...am I bad talking Yao?
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Old 05-02-2006   #18
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Sorry to be the Bobo of this thread, but I've lost all my confidence in this coaching staff. Sure maybe they thought Williams was the best choice, but if all the other GMs had Bush rated higher, don't you think that means they would have to scheme more to stop Bush than Williams?
If all the other GM's jumped off a cliff, does that mean our GM should too. Wait, that's not constructive criticism at all.
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Old 05-02-2006   #19
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Jeez a little uptight aren't ya'll. People defend most strongly what they are most insecure about I guess.
A) First and foremost, get off my back about the 8 starting DE comment. I clearly meant DL and if you read the rest of my post, you would know that.
B) Second, to write off Babin OR Peek at this stage of the game is purely ignorant. Mario Williams hasn't played a down at NFL DE, and neither have Babin or Peek. Both had dominating stats as college DEs (Babin had 30 sacks and over 50 tfls in his last 2 seasons of college)
C) Kubiak's coaching ability is much more than how the team plays on the field. I CAN and WILL continue to judge him prior to game 1. I can do this because he influences player choices and acquisitions, team meetings and practices, etc. To say it is too early is silly
D) It was printed in an ESPN article that 21 of 27 GMs interviewed had Bush rated higher than Williams. I'd say at least 90% of scouts/analysis people at ESPN also had the same. If you want, I can find you a source for this. What I was trying to say is that if 21 of 27 teams had Bush rated higher than Williams, it would seem that 21 of 27 teams would be MORE scared of the Texans if we had made the other choice. As it stands, only 6 of 27 teams are now MORE scared of the Texans. Scared teams have to scheme more, and thats always a good thing

So feel free to argue with me all you want, but in my opinion, instead of taking a pretty close to unanimous consensus BPA, we went with what we thought was a football decision. Too bad we've now invested a HUGE portion of our salary cap into our already stacked DL and have ignored the sack problem for the 5th year in a row. Bush would have taken pressure off DC, and that is invaluable to the production of our offense
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Old 05-02-2006   #20
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Originally Posted by gtexan02
It was printed in an ESPN article that 21 of 27 GMs interviewed had Bush rated higher than Williams. I'd say at least 90% of scouts/analysis people at ESPN also had the same. If you want, I can find you a source for this. What I was trying to say is that if 21 of 27 teams had Bush rated higher than Williams, it would seem that 21 of 27 teams would be MORE scared of the Texans if we had made the other choice. As it stands, only 6 of 27 teams are now MORE scared of the Texans. Scared teams have to scheme more, and thats always a good thing.
I'm sure that teams were more scared of Olajuwon and the Rockets more than the Bulls and Michael Jordan initially. It is funny how that perception was wrong. Could this be the same situation? Only time will tell.

For the record, I preferred Bush, but I am not presumptuous enough to know which decision was the correct one. I guess we will know in a few years.
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