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Old 08-28-2004   #1
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Default Steve Jackson - How 'Bout Dem Rams!

Many draft prognosticators thought that the C'boys were fortunate indeed that Steve Jackson had fallen into their laps at the 22nd pick. Exactly what they needed ... a better RB than Troy Hambrick to help in the development of Quincy Carter. Most were shocked when the C'boys passed on Jackson, or any first round selection, by trading with the Bills. It will be great for them to have an additional first round pick in 2005, but after 3 years of 5-11 and finally showing some improvement last year, should they have delayed trying to improve their team?

How did Steve Jackson do last night, against C'boy rival Redskins?

25 runs for 125 yds (5.0 yd ave), plus 1 TD - 2 rec for 10 yds.

How 'Bout 'Dem Rams!
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Old 08-28-2004   #2
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Here's a story on the game.

Quote:
St. Louis 28, Washington 3

By JIM SUHR, Associated Press Writer
August 28, 2004

ST. LOUIS (AP) -- Steven Jackson is quickly showing the St. Louis Rams that he is as good as advertised.

The 6-foot-2, 230-pound rookie out of Oregon State bowled over the Redskins for 125 yards on 25 carries and scored on a 5-yard run to help the Rams to a 28-3 victory Friday night over Washington.

Rams coach Mike Martz said his brawny runner "just keeps getting better and better.''

"When he hits that pile, he's relentless,'' Martz said. "You'd better be prepared to tackle him. He's what everyone at Oregon State said he was.''

Jackson ran for 3,625 yards and 39 touchdowns in three seasons at Oregon State and was the first running back taken in April's draft. He said he simply wanted to make a good impression and perhaps move up the depth chart behind Marshall Faulk, who had 11 yards on four carries.

The bruising back got better as the game went on, rushing for 103 yards in the second half.

"I tend to wear down the defense in the latter part of the game,'' Jackson said. "That's where I get my big runs. That's Steven Jackson of college football and what helped me get to this level.''
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/recap;_y...827014&prov=ap
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Old 08-28-2004   #3
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Vindication :hehe: oh its only pre-season Steven Jackson was in my top 10 draft board, his intelligence & character where completly over looked for him to slip this far. Dallas looks like *****s.

This guy is special, he is a five tool rb that has sure hands, does not fumble, great footwork, speed, power & catches the ball out of the backfield as well as Marshall Faulk with much bigger size.
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Old 08-29-2004   #4
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2004 Pre-season stats...

Steven Jackson - 54 carries, 251 yards (4.6 avg.), 2 TDs, long of 18

Julius Jones - 22 carries, 113 yards (5.1 avg.), 1 TD, long of 16

A couple of other points...

1. Because Jones was a 2nd round pick, his contract isn't near what Jackson's is. So which team is getting more value from their pick?

2. Dallas also has an extra first round pick in the next draft.

Yeah, Dallas really came out looking stupid in this deal.
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Old 08-29-2004   #5
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I'll wait till next years draft to see who Dallas gets with the Bills first round pick before I pass a judgement on this deal....
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Old 08-29-2004   #6
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He runs in an upright style a lot like Eric Dickerson. If he turns out to be anything like E.D., the Rams got a gem.
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Old 08-29-2004   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEyeBC32
Julius Jones looks good, but I think Steven Jackson will be the better back overall. Dallas might get a high first round pick out of the deal, b/c Buffalo more than likely will have a bad record, unless of course Buffalo improves on offense. Is Gilbride still in Buffalo??
I think he's (Jackson) a better RB overall as well. But to say Dallas looks stupid in this deal (not implying you're the one that said it) when Jones is performing at the same, if not higher, level as Jackson (while paying him less than what the Rams are paying Jackson) ON TOP of getting an extra first round pick is asinine.

But that's just my thinking.
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Old 08-29-2004   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
I think he's (Jackson) a better RB overall as well. But to say Dallas looks stupid in this deal (not implying you're the one that said it) when Jones is performing at the same, if not higher, level as Jackson (while paying him less than what the Rams are paying Jackson) ON TOP of getting an extra first round pick is asinine.

But that's just my thinking.
Not too sure Jackson is better overall.
I still think Dallas made out like a bandit getting Julius Jones when they did.
We will have a better idea by the end of the year.

And I don't even like the boys, or most of their fans.
(Huge excepted )
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Old 08-30-2004   #9
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Jackons on paper, wow he's a good back

When you watch him.


Who is this chump?
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Old 09-01-2004   #10
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Yeah HUGE good to see you return to the Texans board as in the past we disagree Your rationalizing that Julius Jones is a better back than Steven Jackson because the Cowboys saved money, picked up a high pick in 2005 from Buffalo & Julius Jones is performing @ a higher level. OK maybe your right, good luck to you & your beloved Cowboys, ride Julius onto the Superbowl, if he has anything left by the time your ready to compete at that level which I'm sorry to inform you isn't anytime soon.

Seriously Julius Jones is a one dimensional back, he does have break away speed but hey so does Tony Hollings. He cant' block worth ****, he fumbles and his hands somehow fail to grasp a football in pass routes. When Dallas had the chance to draft the best all around back Steven Jackson who CAN block, respectable solid avg. yard per carry, rarely fumbles has the best pair of receiving hands coming out of the backfield since Faulk (who is mentoring him) & rock solid family background with straight A's in College.

Enough I digress Buffalo looks the worst for the deal, granted. Dallas raked them bad of course who would have known J. P. Losman would get hurt so early on. That draft pick should help the Cowboys NEXT year. Julius looks like a solid prospect but NOT A FRANCHISE RB. The Dallas Cowboys passed on the best who was still available at their pick, because they wanted to save money? How do they save money when the pick from Buffalo may be a high 1st round selection? If Jones is successful won't he demand a big, fat Emmitt Smith re-negoiated contract? Either way Dallas is screwed, meanwhile the RB they passed on succeeds Marshall Fauk in St. Louis, better for Steven anyway he gets to play in a great offense desinged to take advantage of mismatches & atheltic abilties something that does not happen near as often at least since Michael Irvin in Dallas.
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Old 09-01-2004   #11
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Quote:
Yeah HUGE good to see you return to the Texans board as in the past we disagree Your rationalizing that Julius Jones is a better back than Steven Jackson because the Cowboys saved money, picked up a high pick in 2005 from Buffalo & Julius Jones is performing @ a higher level. OK maybe your right, good luck to you & your beloved Cowboys, ride Julius onto the Superbowl, if he has anything left by the time your ready to compete at that level which I'm sorry to inform you isn't anytime soon.
And drafting Steven Jackson instead of Julius Jones would've helped Dallas reach the Super Bowl quicker how?

Quote:
Seriously Julius Jones is a one dimensional back, he does have break away speed but hey so does Tony Hollings. He cant' block worth ****, he fumbles and his hands somehow fail to grasp a football in pass routes. When Dallas had the chance to draft the best all around back Steven Jackson who CAN block, respectable solid avg. yard per carry, rarely fumbles has the best pair of receiving hands coming out of the backfield since Faulk (who is mentoring him) & rock solid family background with straight A's in College.
2003 NCAA Stats -

Jones - 229 carries, 3 fumbles/2 lost (1 fumble every 76 carries)

If Jackson averaged fewer fumbles than that per carry, I'll concede this point. But 1 fumble every 76 carries is pretty good.

Marshall Faulk came in to the league in '94. That was 10 years ago. Are you sure Jackson has the best hands since then or are you just exaggerating in hopes of making your point look better?

BTW, Jones has almost as many yards receiving (31) with his 3 catches as Jackson does (34) with his 8 catches in the pre-season thus far. With a 4.3 yards per reception average, Jackson would be better off running the ball instead (4.6 avg). But hey, Jackson sure is catching a lot of balls in an offense that will take advantage of his athletic ability.

Julius Jones went to Notre Dame. Do you understand the significance of just being able to enroll into an academic institution like that? It's certainly more impressive than pulling down straight A's at Oregon State (Tier 3).

Quote:
Enough I digress Buffalo looks the worst for the deal, granted. Dallas raked them bad of course who would have known J. P. Losman would get hurt so early on. That draft pick should help the Cowboys NEXT year. Julius looks like a solid prospect but NOT A FRANCHISE RB. The Dallas Cowboys passed on the best who was still available at their pick, because they wanted to save money? How do they save money when the pick from Buffalo may be a high 1st round selection? If Jones is successful won't he demand a big, fat Emmitt Smith re-negoiated contract? Either way Dallas is screwed, meanwhile the RB they passed on succeeds Marshall Fauk in St. Louis, better for Steven anyway he gets to play in a great offense desinged to take advantage of mismatches & atheltic abilties something that does not happen near as often at least since Michael Irvin in Dallas.
Had Losman not broken his leg, the Bills would've gotten the better end of the deal?

And if the pick will help NEXT year...how is that bad? Would you rather build a team that can win one Super Bowl then disappear or have a team that will have the opportunity to win many Super Bowls? I'm not saying this is the situation Dallas is in but the concept is the same.

And where did I say Dallas drafted Jones because they wanted to save money? I just said they were getting better value out of him. And if you can dispute this given both RB's production in pre-season thus far and the differences in their contracts, knock yourself out.

Will Jones want a bigger contract if he's successful? Sure. Is Steven Jackson going to ask for the same contract he signed this year if he's successful?
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Old 09-01-2004   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
:
Julius Jones went to Notre Dame. Do you understand the significance of just being able to enroll into an academic institution like that? It's certainly more impressive than pulling down straight A's at Oregon State (Tier 3).
Ahh, common ground between a girls fan and a Texans fan.

Can you tell I'm also an Irish fan?
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Old 09-01-2004   #13
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You won't be able to tell for a year or more who got the best of the deal here.

Bill Parcells said he wanted JJ all along. That would seem to be the truth since he traded down to get him and also got a 1st round pick for next year.

As far as Hollings he's done great for a guy in his situation. He hasn't even been a running back that long. Excuse the fumbles and what is his weakness? He runs hard and he gets tough yards.
I don't think he's done badly at all.
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Old 09-01-2004   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
Julius Jones went to Notre Dame. Do you understand the significance of just being able to enroll into an academic institution like that?
Can someone refresh my memory. Wasn't 'Dr.' Julius Jones out of Notre Dame for a year with academic problems? Granted, picking up a player who lets his teammates down one year (see Keyshawn) doesn't seem to be a problem with the C'boys ...
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Old 09-01-2004   #15
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I think he did miss a year because of academics. But he came back for his senior year I guess and had a good one so I guess he got his grades back to an acceptable level. I'm sure he probably wish it hadn't happened but I don't know that it makes much of a difference as to what kind of running back he is or even what sort of person he is.

Lots of kids have trouble in school. I've never heard him speak about it but I would guess he probably disappointed a lot of people including himself. You live and learn and move on. And he's moving on.
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Old 09-01-2004   #16
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Parcells will do the same thing he did when be gambled with Curtis Martin and make JJ the a great running back. Besides guys we dont know who's better yet, though JJ has had a great pre season we're not sure if he's better than Jackson. We got to wait and see.

Now do I say that move was stupid? Absolutely not, if JJ performs like he's been doing in the pre season, it was a steal, plus we get a 1st round pick in 05'. I say BP made the right call and I tip my hat to him
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Old 09-01-2004   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
And drafting Steven Jackson instead of Julius Jones would've helped Dallas reach the Super Bowl quicker how?

Julius or Steven Jackson either one would be used like a workhorse since Parcells has nothing to work with, Jackson simply stated is multi talented & not as one dimensional.



2003 NCAA Stats -

Jones - 229 carries, 3 fumbles/2 lost (1 fumble every 76 carries)

If Jackson averaged fewer fumbles than that per carry, I'll concede this point. But 1 fumble every 76 carries is pretty good.

Marshall Faulk came in to the league in '94. That was 10 years ago. Are you sure Jackson has the best hands since then or are you just exaggerating in hopes of making your point look better?

No reason in particular other than Faulk has been outstanding catching out of the backfield & that he will help mentor Steven Jackson accelerating his learning curve just that much faster.

BTW, Jones has almost as many yards receiving (31) with his 3 catches as Jackson does (34) with his 8 catches in the pre-season thus far. With a 4.3 yards per reception average, Jackson would be better off running the ball instead (4.6 avg). But hey, Jackson sure is catching a lot of balls in an offense that will take advantage of his athletic ability.

Its just pre-season HUGE, the only numbers that count are during the regular season & post season, these numbers mean nothing.

Julius Jones went to Notre Dame. Do you understand the significance of just being able to enroll into an academic institution like that? It's certainly more impressive than pulling down straight A's at Oregon State (Tier 3).

Here are some of their wonderlick results...

Steven Jackson, Oregon State - 28
Kevin Jones, Virginia Tech - 15
Chris Perry, Michigan - 20
Greg Jones, Florida State - 25
Tatum Bell, Oklahoma State - 18
Julius Jones, Notre Dame - 16
Michael Turner, Northern Illinois - 35
Maurice Clarett, Ohio State - 20


Had Losman not broken his leg, the Bills would've gotten the better end of the deal?

We won't know this year now will we?

And if the pick will help NEXT year...how is that bad? Would you rather build a team that can win one Super Bowl then disappear or have a team that will have the opportunity to win many Super Bowls? I'm not saying this is the situation Dallas is in but the concept is the same.

It should help having a high draft pick as long as the salary can fit under the cap, look at what the Texans gave up to pick Babin, this free'd up enough room to sign Babin quickley and before training camp while the Titans struggled and let quality FA's walk.

And where did I say Dallas drafted Jones because they wanted to save money? I just said they were getting better value out of him. And if you can dispute this given both RB's production in pre-season thus far and the differences in their contracts, knock yourself out.

How is Julius Jones a better value, what did I miss? A late 1st round pick who becomes the franchise seems high in value indeed.

Will Jones want a bigger contract if he's successful? Sure. Is Steven Jackson going to ask for the same contract he signed this year if he's successful?
No hopefully Steven Jackson will become a Texan at that point. :hehe:
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Old 09-01-2004   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WWJD
I think he did miss a year because of academics. But he came back for his senior year ... I guess he got his grades back to an acceptable level ... Lots of kids have trouble in school.
I agree that lot's of college football players don't take their academic requirements seriously. I would not have mentioned it if HUGE had not suggested that being admitted into Notre Dame (apparently his SAT had just one question - what's your 40 time?) gave him some kind of free pass in a character comparison with Steve Jackson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WWJD
I think he did miss a year because of academics ... I'm sure he probably wish it hadn't happened but I don't know that it makes much of a difference as to what kind of running back he is or even what sort of person he is.

... I've never heard him speak about it but I would guess he probably disappointed a lot of people including himself ...
I disagree. I think it is one thing to choose not to try and better yourself in school, perhaps because you feel you're going to the NFL. Its another thing entirely to ignore your academic responsibilities to the extent that you are not available to help the team. It may not happen again, but he still should be viewed as someone who previously let those down who were counting on him.
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Old 09-01-2004   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HowBoutThemCowboys!
... though JJ has had a great pre season ...
Any word on when the C'boys are going to turn him out against players who will actually make NFL rosters?
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Old 09-01-2004   #20
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Quote:
Can someone refresh my memory. Wasn't 'Dr.' Julius Jones out of Notre Dame for a year with academic problems? Granted, picking up a player who lets his teammates down one year (see Keyshawn) doesn't seem to be a problem with the C'boys ...
The fact he was able to make it back into Notre Dame speaks volumes about his character. Funny how that's overlooked in this discussion.

Quote:
And drafting Steven Jackson instead of Julius Jones would've helped Dallas reach the Super Bowl quicker how?

Julius or Steven Jackson either one would be used like a workhorse since Parcells has nothing to work with, Jackson simply stated is multi talented & not as one dimensional.
Parcells doesn't have Eddie George? The RB who happens to have the highest average of attempts per game of any RB in the league over the past several years? Not to say I expect a lot of production from George (I'd be shocked if he eclipsed the 4.0 mark). But I'd like your opinion as to why you think Jones will be carrying the load. If so, why would that be a bad thing?

Quote:
2003 NCAA Stats -

Jones - 229 carries, 3 fumbles/2 lost (1 fumble every 76 carries)

If Jackson averaged fewer fumbles than that per carry, I'll concede this point. But 1 fumble every 76 carries is pretty good.

Marshall Faulk came in to the league in '94. That was 10 years ago. Are you sure Jackson has the best hands since then or are you just exaggerating in hopes of making your point look better?

No reason in particular other than Faulk has been outstanding catching out of the backfield & that he will help mentor Steven Jackson accelerating his learning curve just that much faster.
So if the San Francisco Giants draft a new LF, should Barry Bonds be able to teach him to hit HRs in the same fashion? This is basically what you're saying. Faulk is great at catching the ball (be it out of the backfield or lined up as a WR) so he'll be able to pass this on to Jackson. As far as having a mentor, refer to the fore mentioned George.

Any luck coming up with Jackson's fumbles this past year or were you going to dodge that topic since Jones' were brought up?

Quote:
BTW, Jones has almost as many yards receiving (31) with his 3 catches as Jackson does (34) with his 8 catches in the pre-season thus far. With a 4.3 yards per reception average, Jackson would be better off running the ball instead (4.6 avg). But hey, Jackson sure is catching a lot of balls in an offense that will take advantage of his athletic ability.

Its just pre-season HUGE, the only numbers that count are during the regular season & post season, these numbers mean nothing.
Agreed. So what are you basing Jackson's superiority on? What he did in college?

Quote:
Julius Jones went to Notre Dame. Do you understand the significance of just being able to enroll into an academic institution like that? It's certainly more impressive than pulling down straight A's at Oregon State (Tier 3).

Here are some of their wonderlick results...

Steven Jackson, Oregon State - 28
Kevin Jones, Virginia Tech - 15
Chris Perry, Michigan - 20
Greg Jones, Florida State - 25
Tatum Bell, Oklahoma State - 18
Julius Jones, Notre Dame - 16
Michael Turner, Northern Illinois - 35
Maurice Clarett, Ohio State - 20
You just used the Wonderlick test as a measuring device for academic standards. I'd explain how dumb this look but I don't think you'd get it.

Need a better example? Quincy Carter scored a 30 on his test. Guess after football he'll be finding a cure for cancer.

Quote:
And if the pick will help NEXT year...how is that bad? Would you rather build a team that can win one Super Bowl then disappear or have a team that will have the opportunity to win many Super Bowls? I'm not saying this is the situation Dallas is in but the concept is the same.

It should help having a high draft pick as long as the salary can fit under the cap, look at what the Texans gave up to pick Babin, this free'd up enough room to sign Babin quickley and before training camp while the Titans struggled and let quality FA's walk.
Who says they have to use both first round picks on players? I'm actually hoping they trade one of them and try to pick up two more 1st rounders (a late first in '05 and another in '06).

Fitting them under the salary cap will not be a problem. Teams (especially Dallas after all the trouble they had) are much better at managing the cap now than they were 10 years ago.

Quote:
And where did I say Dallas drafted Jones because they wanted to save money? I just said they were getting better value out of him. And if you can dispute this given both RB's production in pre-season thus far and the differences in their contracts, knock yourself out.

How is Julius Jones a better value, what did I miss? A late 1st round pick who becomes the franchise seems high in value indeed.
As of now, neither have proven to be of any value.

A late 1st rounder that becomes your franchise RB is a great value. But a mid-2nd rounder that also fetched you an additional 1st round pick and plays with a lesser contract that becomes you franchise RB is a better value.

And spare me the "Jackson is a franchise RB...Jones is not" because you've got nothing to base it on other than Jackson's first round draft status. If this is your logic, you must not have high hopes for Domanick Davis.

Quote:
Will Jones want a bigger contract if he's successful? Sure. Is Steven Jackson going to ask for the same contract he signed this year if he's successful?


No hopefully Steven Jackson will become a Texan at that point.
Again, you must not hold a high opinion of Davis.
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