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Old 04-24-2006   #1
battlered
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Default 2 years Grace

I AUTOMATICALLY give Carr 2 years grace. 1 year for all the players including Carr to gel together and learn the new system... so we might lose a majority of our games at the beginning of the season. And the 2nd season Carr & Company should be able to perfect the new offensive/defensive schemes.

--***takes more than spring training/preseason/and a couple reg. season games...
to break bad habits, and gel with each other/ and w/ coaches
-communicate well with each other
-knowing each others playing style
-and adjusting to new positions (ultimately Babin/Peek will essentially be rookies this year moving to the DE spot and playing w/ a 3point stance)
-Pbuc might do well in the new defensive system, and hopefully opposing backs won't make it all the way through our defense to where it's DO or DIE on PBucs tackling.
- Oline is the biggest ? i have, this years success will depend heavily on how well they protect Carr! I would still say Carr will be one of the top 5 QB's sacked, and will Be one of the top 5 Qb's for rushing yards, behind Vick, McNabb, Culpepper, V. Young.
-i want our safeties to be better at pass coverage than run defense b/c we have LB's and D-Line that should and are getting paid to stop the run more so than the pass, where we only have our shakey DB corps, and Safeties need to be able to read, react, and help our DB's w/ consistency

*** i wouldn't be suprised if Carr's interception might be at his highest, but his yards should also increase, or just think plummer #'s w/ his 1st season w/ the broncos.

i would say team leaders in receiving yrds. will be in this order
1. Johnson/Moulds -one will benefit from this
2. Putzier - remember when we had B. Miller, and with all the pressure carr will more than likely still face Putzier will be his best friend
3. Johnson/Moulds -whoever plays better as the decoy
4. Bush - he might just be the 3rd leading receiver depending on how well we use him/ and how much Carr trusts his hands

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some would say well draft Young and give him 2yrs grace and he'll perform better.
--------I wouldn't argue, but i would argue that we already have a 1st pick/round in David Carr, i don't want to waste another 1st pick in the draft on a QB and have the best defensive player to come out since julius peppers to be drafted 2nd after us.
-------DEJA VU?
Sure. inaugurational season we drafted Carr and then. highly rated Peppers was the best defensive player and was taken w/ the 2nd pick after us.
and carr has underperformed and peppers, well he became the player everyone is compared too when talked about being the best DE.
... and sure enough Mario Williams is, well rated the next best DE since J. Pep and again a player w/ this high of prospect is in the draft when we have the first pick, and can pick him to make up for not picking J. Pep, and get the results J.Pep has been putting up.
Now if we draft Young who has a higher chance of being a bust(depending on how high you are on him compared to what his statistics are in the NFL.)
and Mario Williams does turn out to be the next if not greater than J. Pep, well then we were DOOPED once again. for making the same mistake twice by drafting a qb with the first pick, and passing up the NEXT best DE to be taken w/ the next pick. only this time we'll be stuck w/ 2 1st pick qb's

-- it's a sign! we have to pick Mario Williams for we have the 1st pick!
Bush is great, i won't be mad w/ that at all, i would still be happy, but if we draft young(which im pretty sure won't happen) will just be a waste of a pick to me.

---im either for Mario Williams or Reggie Bush
D'brick if we trade down and neither super mario/ 619bush are their for the taking.

I'm not having high expectations for this season.
-again new coaching staff
-new schemes
-time to adjust to new schemes-to a cognitive level
-new players

Last edited by battlered; 04-24-2006 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 04-24-2006   #2
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so your giving carr a 6 year cushion on his career? At this rate he will be retired before you decide if he has a future or not.
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Old 04-24-2006   #3
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Originally Posted by swtbound07
so your giving carr a 6 year cushion on his career? At this rate he will be retired before you decide if he has a future or not.
At this rate, he will have retired before the Texans have given him any decent chance at success. Hopefully that changes this season.
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Old 04-24-2006   #4
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Im giving him next season to show improvement. After that I will be questioning him a bit more, but I imagine that even if he looks "eh" next year..ill probably still be open to seeing him starting in '08.. cause he will be learning a new system next year.

I dont really WANT to give him 2 years..cause as people have said..that means he has been in the league 6 years, and by that time you expect a QB to be established and to have reached his potential. But I may not have any choice but to give him 2 more years. Its just the logical thing to do.
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Old 04-24-2006   #5
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Carr has got the 2006 season to shape up or ship out for most Texans fans.

If he continues the trend that has been established in his first four seasons, I'd expect a QB change by the 2007 season.

However, if he shows improvement in areas that he can control (ie. pocket presence, throwing the ball away to avoid sacks, hitting WRs in stride, etc.), then I'd expect the coaching staff to keep beleiving in his potential.

Regardless of how the team does this season, I expect our QB to look like a new man. Another 50+ sack season and I think it would be best for everyone involved if he found himself on another team. Only time will tell, though.
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Old 04-24-2006   #6
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Carr had the 05 season for me.....im tired of waiting to see. If only detroit fans were as patient with joey harrington..
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Old 04-24-2006   #7
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If he doesn't shape up and have a GREAT year (and pull this team up to playoff contention) . . . and Brady Quinn is on the board . . . then bye bye David. His feet should be held officially to the fire this year. No reason to coddle the guy at all. There's alot to get used to I'm sure with the new coaching staff, but he's had plenty of time to get his feet wet.
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Old 04-24-2006   #8
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Carr has put alot of work into learning the new system, and I think we could see immediate success. Kubiak cut Plummers ints down from 20 to 7 his first year in the system(although in 5 fewer games), and Carr already knows how to make good dicisions. The biggest problem is protection and I believe coaching and healthy starters could shave 30 sacks off last years total. Being less predictable will help alot too. We should be able to see if Carr has what it takes by the end of 2006, and will know if we need a QB by the time draft day comes around.

Other than the O-line(more specifically LT) my biggest worry is our pass defense. We need a starting FS and could use an upgrade at SS if we're going to stop the deep pass and allow our corners to be agressive. Brown gave up alot of big plays when he was out of position(understandable for a rookie) and probably cut 5 years off D-Robs life just from hypertension. Second to Safetys has to be outside linerbacker where we are set to start Morlon 50/50 Greenwood and possibly Orr. A long way from inspiring. I would love to get Hawk in here and another linebacker in the 3rd or 4th round, Spencer Havner and James Anderson spring to mind. I'm torn on supporting Buchanon. He has all the talent in the world but needs to play up to it. I could see us passing on a corner and giving him one more chance.

Williams stock isn't affected by us passing on Peppers. He's either worth the pick or he isn't. Alot of people are beginning to believe he is.

I have very high hopes for this season:
-New coaches
-Competent coaches
-A scheme that doesn't make you say W..T..F....?
-New attitude
-Players in their natural positions
-Did I mention new and competent coaches?

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Old 04-24-2006   #9
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A journey through the life of a Texans fan, Act I, Scene I:

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Old 04-24-2006   #10
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Old 04-24-2006   #11
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Why stop at 2 years? Make it another four!


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Old 04-24-2006   #12
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2 more years???

Where was all of this patience back in the 80's and 90's? I see the apologists working here... Carr has as much potential as Oliver Luck or Cody Carlson he just needs more time, different coaches and more money to showcase it. As long as GQ wants him to pose for their magazine we should forgive his mediocrity and find others to blame for his failures. If we hold on long enough maybe we'll see him lead this team another 300-yard passing game. Or more wins than losses in a season.
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Old 04-24-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk75
AJ your on my list buddy, the list of people I will call out after Carr does well next year.
put me on it with an exclamation point.
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Old 04-24-2006   #14
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A well thought out post Battlered to be responded to (mostly) with sarcastic rebuttals. When I first read your post, I was thinking that this will start some intelligent conversation on the boards, but then it went through the same 'ol "discussions" of... haven't seen it yet, why give him more years?

Ah well. My input - I agree to keep Carr another year. If an "apologist" so be it, but to have the staff previously in place and promises not kept to improve the line year after year, less than adequate recievers (in amount of targets and individually as well - save AJ), "square" players placed into "round" positions for a "hey, let's try this" and McNair's hands off approach to his new business as "he hasn't been in the NFL as long" as other unmentionables....

... yeah, I think Carr gets at least another year. If not for all the other reasons, for what I've seen mentioned on the MB's and articles about other coaches, scouts, GM's, whatever, noting the Carr is a good QB.

Agree with DB's above post (seem to agree with alot he posts) that it's defintely a "put up" year for Carr - need to see the steps to improvement to result in him getting another season after this with the Texans. A great guy, but like others on this board - it's what's best for the Texans first - and everyone has their own opinion as to what's best. Here's hoping the new staff knows that answer for the draft and upcoming season and the fans turn their frustrations away from each other and towards the opposing teams in our Bullpen. (group hug later)

Battleread - I think you just summed up nicely what I've been wondering for a while. I think I'd be happy with either Reggie or Mario for our first pick (1st overall or otherwise). Both will be a step up from what we currently have and at least would be contributing to the team in a positive direction.

Good post.
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Old 04-24-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hulk75
AJ your on my list buddy, the list of people I will call out after Carr does well next year.
...and I hope like hell you can call me on it...
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Old 04-24-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by battlered
I AUTOMATICALLY give Carr 2 years grace. 1 year for all the players including Carr to gel together and learn the new system... so we might lose a majority of our games at the beginning of the season. And the 2nd season Carr & Company should be able to perfect the new offensive/defensive schemes.
I am not going to give him two. ( that's where I am leaning now )

The reason is the money... if we are paying him the most money, he should be the best player on the team. A poor defense should inflate his stats not deflate them. Reason being he will spend more time/ get more plays on the field/ have to throw the ball more to catch up.

He's not a rookie anymore, he should be able to adjust with the new coach and 'flame-on' without the training wheels.
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Old 04-24-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goatcheese
Carr has put alot of work into learning the new system, and I think we could see immediate success. Kubiak cut Plummers ints down from 20 to 7 his first year in the system(although in 5 fewer games), and Carr already knows how to make good dicisions. The biggest problem is protection and I believe coaching and healthy starters could shave 30 sacks off last years total. Being less predictable will help alot too. We should be able to see if Carr has what it takes by the end of 2006, and will know if we need a QB by the time draft day comes around.
Bingo........

David's has all the tools... and he's no dummy. We've got two speedy #1 recievers, a WR/TE, pass catching FB & HB.. and a run game that should keep defenses honest(regardless who we draft).

It may be optomistic to believe the OL coaching alone will drop the sack count by 30, but add a little QB coaching, and it should be totally believable.

I refuse to coddle David anymore..... he's a big boy, and he's got plenty of experience. He's never had a problem with INTs, and we know he can operate an offense against bad-to-mediocre defenses. With the Talent he has around him, we shouldn't expect anything less than probowl production. We've made it clear(I think) that he is the leader of this team, now he has to act like it.

He's got to show that he can pick up and beat a blitz. Or at least not take a sack... throw it at the feet of a reciever, over his head, into the stands, get outside the tackle, and hit their mascot.

IF he makes a bad play, he has to bounce back, if he gets booed(It won't be me) he has to perform regardless.

And regardless(irregardless) what you think, I don't think Carr is anything like Jake Plummer. To me, Jake is more in the vein of Brett Farve... Carr, is more like Archie/Peyton Manning....... Dan Marino...... I think Carr is more of a true Quarterback. I think Carr is potentially better than Jake can ever hope to be.

I expect the Houston Texans to avg in the high 20s in points..... 26 ppg, 28 ppg, 30 ppg. I expect him to have close to 4000 yards, if not more. I expect David to keep defenses honest, by beating the blitz, and avoiding sacks... Only the very best teams should ruffle his feathers...

But I wouldn't run him out of town, if he doesn't hit these marks.... I wouldn't run him out of town, if we fail to win 5 games.

But if he's got less than 2800 yards passing, if we have a game won, and he throws an interception late in the game, that costs us the game(more than once). If he has more than 10 sacks accountable to him.... he runs the wrong way.... he falls down, and waits for someone to jump on him..... That's pretty much it... as long as he doesn't do any of these, I won't consider him a failure...... a bust.

What's funny though...... Most of these Carr loyalist will not afford the same excuses, the same leeway to the most productive back we've had since the inception of the franchise...... and it's not like we haven't tried.. DD was supposed to be a backup........

they won't afford these excuses to any of the FA we've brought in in the past. Regardless if they were drafted in the same spots as the player they want to draft in 2006. Steve Mckinney, Victor Riley, PBuch(even after cursing our pass rush).

Our very own draft picks Milford Brown, Fred Weary, .......... no leeway....... Seth Wand.. none whatsoever.


But our quarterback get's a six year grace period.
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Old 04-24-2006   #18
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I've made the excuse in the past, that coaching has been the biggest problem with this team. But, Carr has to shoulder some of the blame as well. He improves this year, and early, or the "DUMP CARR" threads will out number the Bush/Young posts.
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Old 04-24-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swtbound07
put me on it with an exclamation point.
you don't want to be on this list...... chances are better than great, that Carr will have a good year........ the details may be a little sketchy.... just like in 2004, he had a good year, but he still had problems he needed to address. His appologist argued at the time, and will argue in the future.

But it's 2007, that you have to worry about Carr's performance.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by A4toZ
Ah well. My input - I agree to keep Carr another year. If an "apologist" so be it, but to have the staff previously in place and promises not kept to improve the line year after year, less than adequate recievers (in amount of targets and individually as well - save AJ), "square" players placed into "round" positions for a "hey, let's try this" and McNair's hands off approach to his new business as "he hasn't been in the NFL as long" as other unmentionables....
What do you expect them to do?? Bring in Free agents to shore up our line?? Someone like Victor Riley or Steve Mckinney, who started a majority of the games they played for their old team....
Or you could expect them to draft someone, anyone right?? Milford Brown, Chester Pitts, Fred Weary in 2002, Seth Wand & Chance Pearce in 2003, Drew Hogdon in 2005. Pitts, Weary, and Wand all 3rd round and above........ Milford Brown, will probably be starting on another team in 2006.

What exactly is it that you wanted them to do??
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Originally Posted by A4toZ
... yeah, I think Carr gets at least another year. If not for all the other reasons, for what I've seen mentioned on the MB's and articles about other coaches, scouts, GM's, whatever, noting the Carr is a good QB.
They are saying Carr has the potential to be good, the potential to be great...... much the same way you would say about Matt Lienart, or Brodie Croyle...... except David has a 4 year headstart on them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A4toZ
Agree with DB's above post (seem to agree with alot he posts) that it's defintely a "put up" year for Carr - need to see the steps to improvement to result in him getting another season after this with the Texans. A great guy, but like others on this board - it's what's best for the Texans first - and everyone has their own opinion as to what's best. Here's hoping the new staff knows that answer for the draft and upcoming season and the fans turn their frustrations away from each other and towards the opposing teams in our Bullpen. (group hug later)
So you must feel that it is a possibility, however slight it is in your mind, that David will need replacing Next year........ it sure would be nice, if we had someone who has the potential to be an elite QB on the team to learn the system at the same time as Carr...... so theoretically, we wouldn't miss a beat in 2007.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A4toZ
Battleread - I think you just summed up nicely what I've been wondering for a while. I think I'd be happy with either Reggie or Mario for our first pick (1st overall or otherwise). Both will be a step up from what we currently have and at least would be contributing to the team in a positive direction.

Good post.
how do you know?? If I were to say Vince would be a step up from what we have, what would you say?? That he hasn't played a down?? that NFL Defenses are faster?? that he can't read a defense?? But everything we have seen about David to date, suggests, that NFL defenses are too fast for him... that he can't read a defense.....

How well is DD going to do with Kubiak calling the shots?? How do you know Morency isn't the next Terrell Davis?? How do you know how Babin and Peek are going to do in a 4-3?? Weaver?? How well is Kalu going to play next to Travis Johnson, Robaire Smith, or Seth Payne?? How do you know??
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Old 04-24-2006   #20
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Default No way

We cant give carr only two years im for a full pledge 4 to 5 years and if he still plays like the mediocre QB he is i say we bring in another Coaching staff and we give him another 4 to 5 years cant anybody see its the coaching and not Carr so basiclly we bring in aq new coaching staff eveyr 4 to 5 years and we give carr another shot everytime. been a while since i posted like a full blooded david carr
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