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Old 04-24-2006   #1
bulldawgtexan
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Default Fantastic article concerning picking Bush or Williams

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft0...ael&id=2419503
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Old 04-24-2006   #2
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very good article that echoes a lot that has been spoken here

just a snippet for critics of Williams:
Critics point to the fact that 13 of Williams' 14 sacks last season came in the Wolfpack's final seven games and wonder about his consistency. Williams offered an interesting explanation for that. It took him four games to figure out how to better deal with cut blocks. Instead of wasting time pushing down with both hands on blockers' shoulder pads and stepping around the block the way linemen are taught, Williams learned how to handle blockers with one hand or just hurdle them. He had three sacks in NC State's fifth game, against Wake Forest.

A longtime defensive line coach says that on film, Williams appears to be playing a bit "cautious." Williams concurred with the observation. At NC State, the ends' first responsibility was outside containment (bootlegs, reverses) and at one point they weren't even allowed to take an inside rush. That discipline might give the impression that Williams was taking plays off. "I don't feel like my play changed from the beginning of the season to the end of the season," he said. "Maybe my numbers were different, but I ran the same way."
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Old 04-24-2006   #3
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Default Another nice Mario Williams article

Says here that he drives a Ford F250 diesel truck. I guess that's all he could fit in.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW...ubauer2102.htm
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Old 04-24-2006   #4
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Default A good reason why not to draft Bush!! (Long but great article)

I think he has good point. The Texans can't lose either way with Williams or Bush but defense wins Championships. The offense is ready to take off but the defense still needs a lot help. I know I am going to get bashed and ask what the heck I know about football. I do know that Williams will be a better pick than bush in the long run.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft0...ael&id=2419503

Sorry you guys for the long Thread I pasted the link.

Thanks

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Old 04-24-2006   #5
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article had a lot of very valid points....thanks for the finding and sharing it, but thats a hard decision and although we cant really go wrong with the 1st pick...it will be interesting to see which way we go on the 29th.
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Old 04-24-2006   #6
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Please cut it down to a quote. We don't allow full length articles from anything other than HoustonTexans.com. Also, provide a link. I'm moving this to the NFL Draft forum.
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Old 04-24-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texasguy346
Please cut it down to a quote. We don't allow full length articles from anything other than HoustonTexans.com. Also, provide a link. I'm moving this to the NFL Draft forum.

Here ya'll go

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft0...ael&id=2419503
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Old 04-24-2006   #8
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I think money is also an issue with Bush and his expectations I believe far and away exceed those of Williams. I feel very similarly. It's one way to throw water on the Bush-VY thing. In reality Williams fills more of a hole than either Bush or VY do. Its funny, but perhaps we can't see the tree for the forest.
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Old 04-24-2006   #9
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I know a good reason not to draft Bush, He is a cheat who will take a bribe! Enough said!
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Old 04-24-2006   #10
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Ok most people know on the boards that I am a big Mario and Winston fan. I know Bush is big time and I think he can greatly help the team, and boy would the shootouts with teams be fun, similar to the Chiefs I think. I thought this was a good article with some valid points, I just wish he would not have used some of the faulty logic that some people use to support their guy. This guy is bad because of this, eventhough my guy does some of the same things he is great. Anyway a definate worthwhile read, and bravo to Michael Smith for being ballsy enough to write it.
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Old 04-24-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
I think money is also an issue with Bush and his expectations I believe far and away exceed those of Williams. I feel very similarly. It's one way to throw water on the Bush-VY thing. In reality Williams fills more of a hole than either Bush or VY do. Its funny, but perhaps we can't see the tree for the forest.
For the umpteenth time, need/"hole" should not be the leading criteria a team uses for the #1 overall. But if it were, we just expended our biggest hunk of
FA funds on a guy who will be playing the same position as Williams, and we already have edge rushers like Peek who can play that position on thirds if we choose to move Weaver inside on those downs.
And if an owner is so miserly that he would actually consider passing on the Drafts most talented player for a lesser player to save some cap, well how's it go: "penny wise and pound foolish", he should just trade out of the top pick for the best deal he can to save those bucks if that's such a high priority.
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Old 04-24-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy
For the umpteenth time, need/"hole" should not be the leading criteria a team uses for the #1 overall. But if it were, we just expended our biggest hunk of
FA funds on a guy who will be playing the same position as Williams, and we already have edge rushers like Peek who can play that position on thirds if we choose to move Weaver inside on those downs.
And if an owner is so miserly that he would actually consider passing on the Drafts most talented player for a lesser player to save some cap, well how's it go: "penny wise and pound foolish", he should just trade out of the top pick for the best deal he can to save those bucks if that's such a high priority.
For the mpteenth time I will say there is a good chance the league owners would not like to see a large increase paid to this year's number 1 pick. People like Ralph Wilson are up in arms about the new bargining agreement with respect to the smaller clubs and the impact it will have on them. Therefore, in return for the agreement I believe there is a lot of pressure on the bigger owners to tone things down for the smaller owners. No, I do not know this to be the case, except from listening to the discussions and comments by other owners.

As to Williams he is only a tick or two below Bush in his overall evaluation. As a matter of fact there are a number of NFL types that Williams is indeed the better player over the long haul. That evaluation includes comparisons to both Bush and VY.

We have done a lot with our offense and the defense could certainly use some help. Given all of the nonsense out there right now it would seem that Williams is now the better option.
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Old 04-24-2006   #13
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Very good article. It definitely makes you think. Hearing about how the defense scheme, kept Mario from pursuing helps explain a bit of what others have complained about.

I'll be happy w/ either pick.
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Old 04-24-2006   #14
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After reading the article i kinda agree with him. Williams does still have upside and is the prototypical size.

They said the only reason we wouldn't draft williams is because we have soo much money tied to the defensive line. Weaver, Robaire, Payne, TJ being a first rounder, and Babin too. Still i'm salivating thinking about Weaver and Williams bookends with Payne, Smith, and TJ rotating in the middle. Plus babin backing up the ends. Thats a stout line if i ever heard of one.

Plus Kubiak will do a better job than capers at rotating the backs in so Morrency will definately get some touches.

I'd like to trade down a spot or two to get him thats my only qualm.

Either way we get Bush or Williams i am happy
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Old 04-24-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacquescas
After reading the article i kinda agree with him. Williams does still have upside and is the prototypical size.

They said the only reason we wouldn't draft williams is because we have soo much money tied to the defensive line. Weaver, Robaire, Payne, TJ being a first rounder, and Babin too. Still i'm salivating thinking about Weaver and Williams bookends with Payne, Smith, and TJ rotating in the middle. Plus babin backing up the ends. Thats a stout line if i ever heard of one.

Plus Kubiak will do a better job than capers at rotating the backs in so Morrency will definately get some touches.

I'd like to trade down a spot or two to get him thats my only qualm.

Either way we get Bush or Williams i am happy

Ditto!!!
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Old 04-24-2006   #16
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I like Michael Smith and noticed my head bobbing in agreement a few times during the article, but then I came across this assertion and realized that he did somethin to alter his mindstate:

"Houston would never forgive the Texans if it turns out they picked Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan. Except the Texans would be picking Shaquille O'Neal."

Obvious hyperbole, way out in the deep end.

For the Texans (Kubiak), this upcoming season is about one thing; improving the play of QB David Carr. He's been locked up financially, he's not getting traded, Kubiak has to find a way to make this guy shine. Bush is the only logical solution to making Carr and the offense produce in the shortest amount of time.

So, are the Texans going to let another game changing DE slip out of their hands? Yes. Will the offensive results make it worth it? They better. Other DEs will be around to help the Texans D, taking Bush is a chance to get instantly better on one side of the ball. Whether that's the correct approach is debatable, but that's what's coming...
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Old 04-24-2006   #17
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This article deserves to be bumped back up the page.

At least for considering some of the knocks on Williams and whether they are unfounded or not. (The things repeated ad nauseum on talk radio and MBs by people who have never seen him play).
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Old 04-24-2006   #18
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What about for the critics who say he plays too high?

I do like the fact he drives a big truck, kinda got that southerner in him huh? That I like!
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Old 04-24-2006   #19
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he made a good point about the chiefs and the Colts.. high powered offenses that haven't done much without a complimentary defense.
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Old 04-24-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by black00ls1
I think he has good point. The Texans can't lose either way with Williams or Bush but defense wins Championships. The offense is ready to take off but the defense still needs a lot help. I know I am going to get bashed and ask what the heck I know about football. I do know that Williams will be a better pick than bush in the long run.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft0...ael&id=2419503

Sorry you guys for the long Thread I pasted the link.

Thanks
Defense does indeed usually win championships and I agree that I think Mario is the better pick for our team in terms of who will create a bigger impact for us, although I won't go so far as to say that I "know" Mairo will be a better pick than Bush. However, as I've said I think he will create a bigger impact for our team and DEs typically last longer than RBs as well, and I also think that the offensive moves they've made this offseason, including bringing in Kubiak, will give us a good enough product on offense and defense should be our bigger concern right now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
For the mpteenth time I will say there is a good chance the league owners would not like to see a large increase paid to this year's number 1 pick. People like Ralph Wilson are up in arms about the new bargining agreement with respect to the smaller clubs and the impact it will have on them. Therefore, in return for the agreement I believe there is a lot of pressure on the bigger owners to tone things down for the smaller owners. No, I do not know this to be the case, except from listening to the discussions and comments by other owners.

As to Williams he is only a tick or two below Bush in his overall evaluation. As a matter of fact there are a number of NFL types that Williams is indeed the better player over the long haul. That evaluation includes comparisons to both Bush and VY.

We have done a lot with our offense and the defense could certainly use some help. Given all of the nonsense out there right now it would seem that Williams is now the better option.
I agree with your whole post.

Clips from the article I particularly like (and some of which I have been more or less stating for the last couple weeks):
Quote:
Choosing Williams over Bush is the smart choice if not the most popular. It isn't that Williams is the better player; a college scouting director whom I swear by told me that Bush is the best player he's ever evaluated, that Bush received a rating one point below perfect on his scale, while Williams graded out one point behind Bush. So I believe the Texans are in fact torn between Bush and Williams, whom they have rated equally atop their draft board.
Quote:
Consider what happened (or didn't) this offseason with regard to several high-profile running backs. Indianapolis let Edgerrin James go as a free agent (the same James general manager Bill Polian drafted after he dealt Marshall Faulk to St. Louis, and the same Polian who, when he was in charge of the Bills, picked Thurman Thomas in Round 2). Shaun Alexander re-signed early with Seattle because the money was with the Seahawks and not on the open market. Free agents Jamal Lewis (Baltimore) and Ahman Green (Green Bay) ended up re-signing with their old clubs for short money.
Quote:
The Texans should take Williams because he plays the position with more impact, D-end. Good running backs come in all sizes, shapes and rounds. Great pass rushers are rare. That's why backs don't get paid what ends do.
Quote:
Running backs, which have the shortest career span of any position, seem to come and go, often because teams decide to let them. New Texans coach Gary Kubiak knows this, having served as offensive coordinator in Denver, where the system -- the same one he's brought with him to Houston -- has produced five different 1,000-yard running backs (and a few yards short of two more last year) in Mike Shanahan's 11 years as head coach. None of those backs was a first-rounder. So Kubiak should be able to get plenty of production, if not the home runs, out of Domanick Davis (3,195 yards in three seasons), Vernand Morency, or whomever.
Quote:
But even if he [Bush] goes on to be the best ever, Bush still won't change the game. Championships still are won with defense.
Quote:
Any good defense begins with an effective pass rush, which is why you don't pass up a chance to get a freak like Williams and why if you can help it you don't let the good ones go. Two years ago, the Giants acquired the No. 1 overall pick, Eli Manning, from the Chargers, but did so without general manager Ernie Accorsi's including a then-little-known defensive end by the name of Osi Umenyiora in the deal. Indianapolis let four-time 1,500-yard rusher James walk partly because it is going to need money to sign end Dwight Freeney. Notoriously frugal New England just broke the bank for Richard Seymour, perhaps the best defensive lineman in all of football.
Quote:
The question is: What are the Texans trying to build? Short-term excitement or a title contender? Was owner Bob McNair sincere when he told the Texans' brain trust not to concern itself with selling tickets but, because winning fills seats, to select the best football player for the team long term?
Houston's first mission has to be to catch the Colts, whom the Texans haven't beaten in eight tries. The teams that give Indianapolis trouble (New England, San Diego, Pittsburgh) are the ones that pressure Peyton Manning.
Quote:
So, Houston, you want to try your luck in a shootout with the Colts? Take Bush. Want to get to Manning? Get Williams.
Quote:
Houston would never forgive the Texans if it turns out they picked Sam Bowie over Michael Jordan.
Except the Texans would be picking Shaquille O'Neal.
Quote:
"I've seen solid players, impact players," Titans coach Jeff Fisher told The (Nashville) Tennessean, "but nobody that has a potential to impact a defense like [Williams]."
Quote:
The game hasn't seen a man of Williams' size (6-foot-7, 295 pounds and growing -- he could carry 310) and strength (35 reps of 225 on the bench press) who moves (40-yard dash time in 4.6 to 4.7 seconds, 40-inch vertical jump) with the knee-bend that he does. Cross Peppers with Seymour and add a touch of Minnesota's Kevin Williams and you get this kid. Peppers, scouts say, was more fluid in his change of direction and a bit quicker than Williams but was not as physical and didn't have as good a motor coming out of North Carolina. There hasn't been a defensive end prospect with Williams' package in years. Asked to whom he would compare Williams, our college scouting director replied, "Nobody. I've never seen anybody like him."
Quote:
With Bush, you're talking 15-20 touches a game plus a few returns. Williams will play 60 snaps a game and give the Texans more for their money. Speaking of money, it's true the Texans have a lot of it invested in their defensive line. Travis Johnson and Jason Babin are former first-round picks, Antwan Peek will play for the first-round restricted tender this year, Robaire Smith was a big signing two years ago and Anthony Weaver just got $12.5 million to sign. Perhaps the last thing the Texans need to do is invest more money in their defensive line, but they don't have anyone like Williams.
Quote:
Another thing: Williams has more -- yes -- upside than Bush. He's 21 years old, still raw. Dare I say it: We may already have seen the best of Bush. I can't help but wonder if it's possible for him to look any better or even as good, and the same goes for Matt Leinart, without the line and the supporting cast he played with at USC. It's like, Tom Cruise stars in a lot of good movies, but you add Jack Nicholson, Kiefer Sutherland, Kevin Bacon and Demi Moore and you've got "A Few Good Men."
Wait until Williams gets NFL coaching and learns how to really use those long arms. At NC State the coaches didn't spend a lot of time teaching hand techniques and such. "I feel like the sky's the limit," Williams said.
Quote:
Williams says he'd like to go No. 1 overall, but he's more concerned about where his team picks in the future.
"I want to go to a team that's going to best utilize my abilities, so I can help them win a championship," he said, "and maybe next year we can be at the 32nd pick."
and my personal favorite:
Quote:
The choice of Williams comes down to whether the Texans want to sell tickets now or distribute Super Bowl tickets later.

Last edited by MorKnolle; 04-24-2006 at 10:39 PM.
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