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Old 04-23-2006   #1
elgie
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Default Mr. McNair, Kubiak, Casserly - Too Smart for Bu$h hype!

The following is a compilation of arguments from myself and many other sources together in one place for easy reference:

I contend that Reggie Bu$h should not be the #1 pick for the Houston Texans, despite the fact there is no denying heís one of the most talented and exciting players to enter the draft. He is not an ideal fit for the running scheme they will employ. There are real issues about his durability in that system. Itís an unwise financial decision given the salary cap space and money necessary to sign: such a highly-touted Hei$man Trophy that youíve led everyone including Bu$hís agent to believe youíll pick, and a Tailback that will still require yet another good Tailback to help share the workload (but not share the salary!) He will not directly impact the offense to the degree an Offensive Lineman or Quarterback would. He will not be as much of an upgrade over current options at Tailback that 2 or even 1 lineman (2 via trade-down) would be at their positions. The current Tailback position is the most productive part of the offense, so why would you start tinkering there first when you have so many other glaring needs elsewhere? Weak leaders too often make decisions based on public opinion, right or wrong. But real leaders make decisions by weighing the risk/reward ratio, and with Bu$h itís too high to justify his selection at #1 for Houston.

An expansion of the above points for clarification follows:

Running scheme Ė Everyone knows this system turns moderately-touted tailbacks into 1200yd.+ rushers. Donít need a high-priced hyped Hei$man tailback. Donít want one. Too espensive.
Look at Denver's tailback history. They saved money by plugging in moderately priced, durable tailbacks, then when the tailbacks performed at the highest level, they wanted to get paid, naturally. They either got the contract or they got replaced by another moderately-priced tailback. With Bu$h, you don't get to first reap the benefits of low-cost production, instead you pay top Hei$man dollars right out of the gate without him having first proved himself in your system.


Imact on offense Ė Forget about Bu$h returning kicks (technically defense.) You donít use your expensive Ferrari to run across town at rush hour to buy that loaf of bread. Also forget about runs up the middle when people know itís coming. So weíre talking about a part-time role player. We're talking about dilution of practice time and playbook/chalktalk study among Tailback duties and Receiver duties. At least a lineman plays most snaps and is directly involved in the outcome of the play. Bu$h will not make the players around him better nearly to the extent that a standout lineman will. If an Offensive Lineman plugs a hole in a porous line, then all of a sudden Carr stays upright, has more time to find receivers who have more time to get into their routes and get open. Suddenly opposing linebackers aren't stacking the box, and suddenly Davis, Morency, and Wells have better holes and running lanes. Suddenly opposing defenses stay on the field longer and tire, increasing the possibility of defensive mistakes and bigger offensive plays. Look at Priest Holmes, Terrell Davis, Emmitt Smith (just 3 of so many others I could mention.) None had the fastest wheels. Didn't need them. They had the patience, vision, and power to run behind superior lines that lifted them to greatness.


Big upgrade at the tailback position? When Bu$h pushers talk about how much better Bu$h will be than Davis alone, we never hear about production numbers. Thatís because in order to be a large upgrade, heíd need to put up CRAZY numbers. Sorry, this isnít USC vs. Fresno State. This is the NFL where much greater parity exists. If youíre expecting 3-4 TDs and 400 all-purpose yards each game, prepare to be disappointed.


So many glaring needs elsewhere. Despite what beat writers say, Iím not convinced the free-agent acquisitions are enough. Why take a chance at finding a sleeper at those needy positions in the 2nd, 4th, 5th rounds or later? Each round later represents a drop-off in talent. When you have a big need, why wouldn't you want the best talent available? I've read magazines as far back as 3 years ago stating that Houston has done little to improve their pass protection. Funny (not) how some things never change. How many sacks does Carr need to take before he's given the best left guard money can buy? How many 1st round skill-players are underperforming for the Texans? Could it be the lines are keeping them from reaching their potential? Of course! Rather than give the lines the first priority, with the lone exception of Travis Davis, Houston has kept throwing good money after bad on skill players, yet ignored key line positions until the 3rd, 4th, 5th rounds or later. How has that strategy been working, Texans fans? Drafting Bu$h onto this team is almost like installing a top-of-the-line boutique home theater system into a house with a leaky roof, broken windows, and faulty furnace. Youíll never be able to fully appreciate the sound quality, and your money will be wasted. Want another metaphor? Itís almost like a female car-crash victim going into the ER and coming out with a set of breast imlants. Nice to look at, but not the smart thing to do.


Public Opinion. Donít believe the hype. As usual with a Hei$man trophy winner and flashy player, there seems to be a national sportmedia drumbeat for Reggie Bu$h to be the first pick by the Texans. By one writer's own admission this pick would create more buzz for the Texans than say, a defensive lineman would. This writer also knows a flashy Hei$mann trophy winner will provide more interesting articles than a lineman would. Seems
to me the Texans should be most concerned with which players will provide more improvement and more wins, not more buzz. However, nothing creates buzz and sells like a winner does. Media and fans alike always fall into what I call ďteenagerĒ mode this time of year. A typical teenager is too easily seduced by marketing, publicity, and what the crowd thinks is the hot thing. Right now, that is Reggie Bu$h. Teenagers are impulsive-driven and typically go after the sexy thing, not the smart thing. A common argument is that no GM wants to be the one to turn down Bush and have him go to another team and turn out to be an all-pro. Counter-argument: you can also say that any pick Houston makes is a potential all-pro that another team misses out on. So it's irrelevant. Also, again, do you make this decision based on fear of what others will think or from fear of missing out on what might be? No, you do it based on fit and how it makes your team better. I trust Houston will see through the hype and do the smart thing, not the sexy thing.
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Old 04-23-2006   #2
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Wow........

I wish I would have had a first post like that.
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Old 04-23-2006   #3
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everything you said is discredited for the "bu$h" thing.
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Old 04-23-2006   #4
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Originally Posted by kastofsna
everything you said is discredited for the "bu$h" thing.
Why? Bush will (and rightfully should) ask for a humongous signing bonus/salary, and we've heard the rumoured reports that his agent and the Texans may have talked numbers but are very far apart, thus leading the Texans to look toward Mario Williams. So why would a little dollar sign for emphasis change everything? Please discredit the arguments presented with actual reasons, insead of dismissing everything with one blanket 'huffy' retort.
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Old 04-23-2006   #5
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Now that's a well thought out post. Welcome to the board & keep it coming. There's a lot of posters on this board that have crossed over to the dark side of the media hype.
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Old 04-23-2006   #6
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Great job elgie, welcome to the boards.

Very seldom do I read that large of a posting, but then again very seldom does a posting that large contain punctuation.

Could've done without the dollar signs in Bush's name though. Any agent that doesn't try to get the maximum deal for his client would be justifiably fired. That shouldn't be a knock on Bush.

I have slowly warmed up to the idea of a trade down (though I don't trust the Texans to do this without getting fleeced). I'm a huge Reggie Bush fan but Barry Sanders taught me that you can love a player while hating his team. I can be a Texans fan and still be a Bush fan even if he winds up (shudder) a flaming thumbtack.

I can't help feeling that the Texans may yet find a way to come out of this draft without one of the truly elite players. It's Casserley's version of Aversion Therapy I suppose.
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Old 04-23-2006   #7
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Default I have 666 posts. Pretty spooky, huh?

What we think they shoudl do, and what they WILL do are two separate things.

I like your ability to spell, as well as the concept of paragraphs. There's a lot of posters who have 1,000 posts and don't know how to spell or break the text up with (Gasp!) the "enter" button on the keyboard.

Back to topic: We're drafting Bush because he's the guy you pick at number 1. I wish we'd trade out and grab 'Brick. But...we don't have that luxury because the Saints acquired a veteran QB and that makes getting 'Brick very hard because the Saints can get him to protect Brees' blindside.

No, after all the hoping and wishing...it's goig to Bush unless we get a deal from the Jets, and what's scary is that we might even entertain San Fran. Now wouldn't that be a kick in the pants if the team we beat last year to GET the No. 1 pick actually comes out and gets the guy we were GOING to get? Ouch. That would make us look verrrrrrrry dumb, if you ask me.

Anyways, welcome to the board.
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Old 04-23-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bad
Could've done without the dollar signs in Bush's name though. Any agent that doesn't try to get the maximum deal for his client would be justifiably fired. That shouldn't be a knock on Bush.
True..... True
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Old 04-23-2006   #9
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Originally Posted by elgie
Why? Bush will (and rightfully should) ask for a humongous signing bonus/salary, and we've heard the rumoured reports that his agent and the Texans may have talked numbers but are very far apart, thus leading the Texans to look toward Mario Williams. So why would a little dollar sign for emphasis change everything? Please discredit the arguments presented with actual reasons, insead of dismissing everything with one blanket 'huffy' retort.
seems pretty childish to me. but i've been called the same thing...MANY times. or time$.
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Old 04-23-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elgie
The following is a compilation of arguments from myself and many other sources together in one place for easy reference:

I contend that Reggie Bu$h should not be the #1 pick for the Houston Texans, despite the fact there is no denying heís one of the most talented and exciting players to enter the draft. He is not an ideal fit for the running scheme they will employ. There are real issues about his durability in that system. Itís an unwise financial decision given the salary cap space and money necessary to sign: such a highly-touted Hei$man Trophy that youíve led everyone including Bu$hís agent to believe youíll pick, and a Tailback that will still require yet another good Tailback to help share the workload (but not share the salary!) He will not directly impact the offense to the degree an Offensive Lineman or Quarterback would. He will not be as much of an upgrade over current options at Tailback that 2 or even 1 lineman (2 via trade-down) would be at their positions. The current Tailback position is the most productive part of the offense, so why would you start tinkering there first when you have so many other glaring needs elsewhere? Weak leaders too often make decisions based on public opinion, right or wrong. But real leaders make decisions by weighing the risk/reward ratio, and with Bu$h itís too high to justify his selection at #1 for Houston.

I disagree completely. At USC they ran a form of the Zone Blocking, so RB would be coming into a familiar scheme. The only issues of durability come from people writing newspaper articles,talking on sportcenter, and posting on MB's. Just because he played with another talented back he shared plays. Not a bad idea either considering it lessened chances for injuries for both. And you are right he will not have the same impact as an OL, or QB. He will have all 11 on defenses attention.Not knowing where or how he is going to be used on the play or if at all. And anyone drafted #1 is gonna cost $$$$.


An expansion of the above points for clarification follows:

Running scheme Ė Everyone knows this system turns moderately-touted tailbacks into 1200yd.+ rushers. Donít need a high-priced hyped Hei$man tailback. Donít want one. Too espensive.
Look at Denver's tailback history. They saved money by plugging in moderately priced, durable tailbacks, then when the tailbacks performed at the highest level, they wanted to get paid, naturally. They either got the contract or they got replaced by another moderately-priced tailback. With Bu$h, you don't get to first reap the benefits of low-cost production, instead you pay top Hei$man dollars right out of the gate without him having first proved himself in your system.

This is a "Houston Scheme not Denver". Expect different formations and plays.


Imact on offense Ė Forget about Bu$h returning kicks (technically defense.) You donít use your expensive Ferrari to run across town at rush hour to buy that loaf of bread. Also forget about runs up the middle when people know itís coming. So weíre talking about a part-time role player. We're talking about dilution of practice time and playbook/chalktalk study among Tailback duties and Receiver duties. At least a lineman plays most snaps and is directly involved in the outcome of the play. Bu$h will not make the players around him better nearly to the extent that a standout lineman will. If an Offensive Lineman plugs a hole in a porous line, then all of a sudden Carr stays upright, has more time to find receivers who have more time to get into their routes and get open. Suddenly opposing linebackers aren't stacking the box, and suddenly Davis, Morency, and Wells have better holes and running lanes. Suddenly opposing defenses stay on the field longer and tire, increasing the possibility of defensive mistakes and bigger offensive plays. Look at Priest Holmes, Terrell Davis, Emmitt Smith (just 3 of so many others I could mention.) None had the fastest wheels. Didn't need them. They had the patience, vision, and power to run behind superior lines that lifted them to greatness.

Agree on returns,but thats it. Listen to the people who coached and played against and with him. He hits full speed at 2- 3 step, has great vision to hit the hole and get thru.


Big upgrade at the tailback position? When Bu$h pushers talk about how much better Bu$h will be than Davis alone, we never hear about production numbers. Thatís because in order to be a large upgrade, heíd need to put up CRAZY numbers. Sorry, this isnít USC vs. Fresno State. This is the NFL where much greater parity exists. If youíre expecting 3-4 TDs and 400 all-purpose yards each game, prepare to be disappointed.

Correct this is not college. Just as people say" Don't say he can do it,till he has played.Don't say he can't till they prove he can't!


So many glaring needs elsewhere. Despite what beat writers say, Iím not convinced the free-agent acquisitions are enough. Why take a chance at finding a sleeper at those needy positions in the 2nd, 4th, 5th rounds or later? Each round later represents a drop-off in talent. When you have a big need, why wouldn't you want the best talent available? I've read magazines as far back as 3 years ago stating that Houston has done little to improve their pass protection. Funny (not) how some things never change. How many sacks does Carr need to take before he's given the best left guard money can buy? How many 1st round skill-players are underperforming for the Texans? Could it be the lines are keeping them from reaching their potential? Of course! Rather than give the lines the first priority, with the lone exception of Travis Davis, Houston has kept throwing good money after bad on skill players, yet ignored key line positions until the 3rd, 4th, 5th rounds or later. How has that strategy been working, Texans fans? Drafting Bu$h onto this team is almost like installing a top-of-the-line boutique home theater system into a house with a leaky roof, broken windows, and faulty furnace. Youíll never be able to fully appreciate the sound quality, and your money will be wasted. Want another metaphor? Itís almost like a female car-crash victim going into the ER and coming out with a set of breast imlants. Nice to look at, but not the smart thing to do.


Public Opinion. Donít believe the hype. As usual with a Hei$man trophy winner and flashy player, there seems to be a national sportmedia drumbeat for Reggie Bu$h to be the first pick by the Texans. By one writer's own admission this pick would create more buzz for the Texans than say, a defensive lineman would. This writer also knows a flashy Hei$mann trophy winner will provide more interesting articles than a lineman would. Seems
to me the Texans should be most concerned with which players will provide more improvement and more wins, not more buzz. However, nothing creates buzz and sells like a winner does. Media and fans alike always fall into what I call ďteenagerĒ mode this time of year. A typical teenager is too easily seduced by marketing, publicity, and what the crowd thinks is the hot thing. Right now, that is Reggie Bu$h. Teenagers are impulsive-driven and typically go after the sexy thing, not the smart thing. A common argument is that no GM wants to be the one to turn down Bush and have him go to another team and turn out to be an all-pro. Counter-argument: you can also say that any pick Houston makes is a potential all-pro that another team misses out on. So it's irrelevant. Also, again, do you make this decision based on fear of what others will think or from fear of missing out on what might be? No, you do it based on fit and how it makes your team better. I trust Houston will see through the hype and do the smart thing, not the sexy thing.
We will know in a Week!!!!
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Old 04-23-2006   #11
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We march to the same kazoo elgie. Welcome to the terrordome.
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Old 04-23-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kastofsna
everything you said is discredited for the "bu$h" thing.
Not when you consider that Bu$h and his family jeopardized USC's run for a "third" straight MNC and his Heisman chances for a house paid for by his agent.
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Old 04-23-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elgie
The following is a compilation of arguments from myself and many other sources together in one place for easy reference:

I contend that Reggie Bu$h should not be the #1 pick for the Houston Texans, despite the fact there is no denying he’s one of the most talented and exciting players to enter the draft. He is not an ideal fit for the running scheme they will employ. There are real issues about his durability in that system. It’s an unwise financial decision given the salary cap space and money necessary to sign: such a highly-touted Hei$man Trophy that you’ve led everyone including Bu$h’s agent to believe you’ll pick, and a Tailback that will still require yet another good Tailback to help share the workload (but not share the salary!) He will not directly impact the offense to the degree an Offensive Lineman or Quarterback would. He will not be as much of an upgrade over current options at Tailback that 2 or even 1 lineman (2 via trade-down) would be at their positions. The current Tailback position is the most productive part of the offense, so why would you start tinkering there first when you have so many other glaring needs elsewhere? Weak leaders too often make decisions based on public opinion, right or wrong. But real leaders make decisions by weighing the risk/reward ratio, and with Bu$h it’s too high to justify his selection at #1 for Houston.

An expansion of the above points for clarification follows:

Running scheme – Everyone knows this system turns moderately-touted tailbacks into 1200yd.+ rushers. Don’t need a high-priced hyped Hei$man tailback. Don’t want one. Too espensive.
Look at Denver's tailback history. They saved money by plugging in moderately priced, durable tailbacks, then when the tailbacks performed at the highest level, they wanted to get paid, naturally. They either got the contract or they got replaced by another moderately-priced tailback. With Bu$h, you don't get to first reap the benefits of low-cost production, instead you pay top Hei$man dollars right out of the gate without him having first proved himself in your system.


Imact on offense – Forget about Bu$h returning kicks (technically defense.) You don’t use your expensive Ferrari to run across town at rush hour to buy that loaf of bread. Also forget about runs up the middle when people know it’s coming. So we’re talking about a part-time role player. We're talking about dilution of practice time and playbook/chalktalk study among Tailback duties and Receiver duties. At least a lineman plays most snaps and is directly involved in the outcome of the play. Bu$h will not make the players around him better nearly to the extent that a standout lineman will. If an Offensive Lineman plugs a hole in a porous line, then all of a sudden Carr stays upright, has more time to find receivers who have more time to get into their routes and get open. Suddenly opposing linebackers aren't stacking the box, and suddenly Davis, Morency, and Wells have better holes and running lanes. Suddenly opposing defenses stay on the field longer and tire, increasing the possibility of defensive mistakes and bigger offensive plays. Look at Priest Holmes, Terrell Davis, Emmitt Smith (just 3 of so many others I could mention.) None had the fastest wheels. Didn't need them. They had the patience, vision, and power to run behind superior lines that lifted them to greatness.


Big upgrade at the tailback position? When Bu$h pushers talk about how much better Bu$h will be than Davis alone, we never hear about production numbers. That’s because in order to be a large upgrade, he’d need to put up CRAZY numbers. Sorry, this isn’t USC vs. Fresno State. This is the NFL where much greater parity exists. If you’re expecting 3-4 TDs and 400 all-purpose yards each game, prepare to be disappointed.


So many glaring needs elsewhere. Despite what beat writers say, I’m not convinced the free-agent acquisitions are enough. Why take a chance at finding a sleeper at those needy positions in the 2nd, 4th, 5th rounds or later? Each round later represents a drop-off in talent. When you have a big need, why wouldn't you want the best talent available? I've read magazines as far back as 3 years ago stating that Houston has done little to improve their pass protection. Funny (not) how some things never change. How many sacks does Carr need to take before he's given the best left guard money can buy? How many 1st round skill-players are underperforming for the Texans? Could it be the lines are keeping them from reaching their potential? Of course! Rather than give the lines the first priority, with the lone exception of Travis Davis, Houston has kept throwing good money after bad on skill players, yet ignored key line positions until the 3rd, 4th, 5th rounds or later. How has that strategy been working, Texans fans? Drafting Bu$h onto this team is almost like installing a top-of-the-line boutique home theater system into a house with a leaky roof, broken windows, and faulty furnace. You’ll never be able to fully appreciate the sound quality, and your money will be wasted. Want another metaphor? It’s almost like a female car-crash victim going into the ER and coming out with a set of breast imlants. Nice to look at, but not the smart thing to do.


Public Opinion. Don’t believe the hype. As usual with a Hei$man trophy winner and flashy player, there seems to be a national sportmedia drumbeat for Reggie Bu$h to be the first pick by the Texans. By one writer's own admission this pick would create more buzz for the Texans than say, a defensive lineman would. This writer also knows a flashy Hei$mann trophy winner will provide more interesting articles than a lineman would. Seems
to me the Texans should be most concerned with which players will provide more improvement and more wins, not more buzz. However, nothing creates buzz and sells like a winner does. Media and fans alike always fall into what I call “teenager” mode this time of year. A typical teenager is too easily seduced by marketing, publicity, and what the crowd thinks is the hot thing. Right now, that is Reggie Bu$h. Teenagers are impulsive-driven and typically go after the sexy thing, not the smart thing. A common argument is that no GM wants to be the one to turn down Bush and have him go to another team and turn out to be an all-pro. Counter-argument: you can also say that any pick Houston makes is a potential all-pro that another team misses out on. So it's irrelevant. Also, again, do you make this decision based on fear of what others will think or from fear of missing out on what might be? No, you do it based on fit and how it makes your team better. I trust Houston will see through the hype and do the smart thing, not the sexy thing.
WoW! This is a great post. I disagree only on one point CC isn't to smart for the Bu$h hype. In fact, he think it make sense to draft Bu$h with the first pick in the draft. A part-time slot back who average only 13 carries per game. And who wasn't even the best running back on his college team. All I can say is this is unbeliveable! Crazy! But, maybe this is why we have the first pick in this year's draft.

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Old 04-23-2006   #14
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Totally disagree with Elgie. If he posted it about 3 months ago then it would have made sense but not after every hole has been filled. Now the draft is about BPA with every pick regardless of position. It is obvious that burnt orange is the color of choice for Elgie.
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Old 04-23-2006   #15
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Originally Posted by BornOrange
Not when you consider that Bu$h and his family jeopardized USC's run for a "third" straight MNC and his Heisman chances for a house paid for by his agent.
Maybe you should actually read the article first, because what you said makes no sense at all.
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Old 04-23-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornOrange
Not when you consider that Bu$h and his family jeopardized USC's run for a "third" straight MNC and his Heisman chances for a house paid for by his agent.
i think you're a bit lost with the story.
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Old 04-23-2006   #17
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Originally Posted by HeroTime
Totally disagree with Elgie. If he posted it about 3 months ago then it would have made sense but not after every hole has been filled. Now the draft is about BPA with every pick regardless of position. It is obvious that burnt orange is the color of choice for Elgie.

Nope. Vince Young is also the wrong pick. Why must it be either Bush or VY with some people? For the record, Texans should forego the #1 pick for additional picks/players that will fix problems. As for every hole having been filled, that's a matter of opinion and mine is they haven't. Flanagan has seen the Pro Bowl, but I fear he's damaged goods coming off knee surgery and being 33 this season. Is he going to be the athletic, mobile O-linemen this system requires? Kubiak apparently hopes so otherwise he wouldn't be here? Point being though, their free agency pickups were not the best available, IMO.

Thanks for the welcome, nice to be here. I've learned some things here and have been entertained, for better or worse!
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Old 04-23-2006   #18
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Greetings elgie,

What a dynamic as well as beautifully written post. Your sort of talent, just does not come along very often upon this great website.....

WELCOME TO THE CLUB! .....for the once seemingly ominous clouds above, seem to be parting at just the proper occasion -- for we really have not seen anything just yet.....

OUR NATIVE SON VINCE YOUNG, IS INDEED COMING HOME TO PLAY KIND ELGIE!

....cannot wait to feast my eyes upon your written articulation then.....
MONARCH

Last edited by MONARCH; 04-23-2006 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 04-23-2006   #19
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Originally Posted by kastofsna
i think you're a bit lost with the story.
Yeah, I skimmed through the article and didn't read it in its entirety before linking to it. Michaels may not have been technically an agent. However, if he was a USC booster the same would apply.

However, if the family did nothing wrong then why did they move out within 24 hours of being approached by a reporter?

Last edited by BornOrange; 04-23-2006 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 04-23-2006   #20
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The Texans were clearly on the lookout for a motherlode offer for that #1. I think the reported interest in Williams served two purposes: (1) leverage for the negotiations with Bush and (2) signalled that they were entertaining trading the pick. They didn't receive any offers to their liking, so now they're buckling down and trying to get Bush signed, which makes sense as you don't want to create any animosity by not having the #1 player in the draft signed before draft day.

As for ignoring public opinion...well, the public wants VY. So that's taken care of.

Anyways, the original post contains a variety of arguments already discussed, chopped, dissected, hashed, re-hashed and chewed on in this forum. Time to move along.
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