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Old 04-18-2006   #1
[[Gary Kubiak]]
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Default I smell a Peek or Babin Trade!

I just feel that this will happen one way or another. Two guys who were drafted to fit a 3-4 specifically. They can't be LBs cause they can't cover worth a lick on the 4-3.

More indications:

Weaver and Kalu
Peek getting a 1st round grade = inflating his value?

We could get a 2nd rounder for either guy.

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Old 04-18-2006   #2
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Originally Posted by [[Gary Kubiak]]
I just feel that this will happen one way or another. Two guys who were drafted to fit a 3-4 specifically. They can't be LBs cause they can't cover worth a lick on the 4-3.

More indications:

Weaver and Kalu
Peek getting a 1st round grade = inflating his value?

We could get a 2nd rounder for either guy.

Both guys were 4-3 DE's in college drafted by the old regime to play LB in the 3-4. I don't see them being traded without seeing what they can do at DE.
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Old 04-18-2006   #3
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Originally Posted by texan279
Both guys were 4-3 DE's in college drafted by the old regime to play LB in the 3-4. I don't see them being traded without seeing what they can do at DE.
True, but I don't think they were rated very high as 4-3 defensive ends - they were rated higher as tweeners. I'm wondering if one will remain at LB. We'll see what happens - I'm sure they'll get every chance to prove themselves.
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Old 04-18-2006   #4
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I get the feeling that Wong won't be on this team at the start of the season.
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Old 04-18-2006   #5
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Originally Posted by Runner
True, but I don't think they were rated very high as 4-3 defensive ends - they were rated higher as tweeners. I'm wondering if one will remain at LB. We'll see what happens - I'm sure they'll get every chance to prove themselves.
On Babin...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/foo...ers/48367.html

Explosive pass-rushing prospect that's been a complete defender on the college level. Breaks down, plays with leverage and quickly gets off the snap. Fast off the edge, immediately alters his angle of attack and pursues from the backside with speed. Outstanding range and makes plays in every direction. Smart, locates the ball and known as a player that spends a lot of time studying film. Deceptively strong and puts up good numbers in the weight room. One of the fastest defensive ends at the Combine and turned in a great workout.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/jason_babin

Outstanding pass rusher and two-time All-American who is one of the fastest down linemen in the game of football … The former high school state wrestling champion also excels on special teams, using his excellent leaping ability to block three punts during his career … The Defensive Hard Hat Award winner also saw time on offense the last two years, blocking in the Power-I formation … Started 25 of 47 games for the Broncos, recording 299 tackles (202 solos) with 38 sacks for minus-188 yards, 75 stops for losses of 283 yards, 43 quarterback pressures, eight forced fumbles, two fumble recoveries, two pass deflections and three receptions for 35 yards (11.7 avg) … His 38 sacks topped the old school career-record of 34 by Joel Smeenge (1986-89) and his 75 stops behind the line of scrimmage broke Smeenge's previous WMU record of 66. Has good body structure with a thick chest, broad shoulders and developing thighs and calves … Leader by example who needs to be accounted for by the opponent … Plays with pain, practices hard and has outstanding character off the field … Has good short-area quickness and acceleration, quickly locating the ball … Shows above-average lateral agility and good effort in his pursuit to the ball … Effective wrap-up tackler who stays low in his pads and drives hard with his legs to rock the ball carriers back … Very effective edge rusher who uses his hands well to grab and maintain position … Has good flexibility and knee bend to get down the line of scrimmage … Has the sudden burst to close on the quarterback and inside run plays.

http://www.nflfans.com/draft/2004/sh...ey=Jason+Babin

He has been a dominant DE against the run and pass. He plays with intensity and enthusiasm & is a disruptive force. Jason has agility, good leverage, good run diagnostics, quick, finishes well, and a leader on the field. There is no doubt that he has had an extremely successful college career at DE. “Twice chosen MAC Defensive Player of the Year, Babin leads the nation in tackles for loss (2.75 per game) and ranks second in pass sacks (1.25 per game). The 6-4, 276-pound Babin also paces the MAC with 33 TFLs and 15 sacks and topped the Broncos in tackles (115). Babin is exploring his post-season options after having received invites from the East-West Shrine, Hula Maui and Senior bowl games.”
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Old 04-18-2006   #6
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The reason I wouldn't think there would be a trade is that there is no value to the Texans in doing it. Their value isn't that high right now (except maybe Peek), so teams would underpay for them. The idea of trading someone appeals if others will overpay, not just give you scraps for them.

Besides, the other poster was right. They were brought in because they were athletic DEs (maybe a little undersized) who could be (supposedly) ideal OLB in a 3-4. That turned out to NOT be the case, at least in Babin's situation. But that doesn't mean he couldn't contribute in a 4-3. At least, if we give them a chance, they could play well enough to be worthwhile as trade bait.

But trading them now makes no real sense unless someone comes knocking with real value for them.
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Old 04-18-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texan279
On Babin...
I get the point you are making, but you have to be fair. This is why so many people are surprised when highly touted draftees enter the pros and aren't instant pro-bowlers. They sounded perfect! Look at all the posts where people here are thinking 3rd and 4th rounders are instant starters - they aren't looking at both sides of the coin.


From the same sources:

NEGATIVES: Slow-shedding blocks or handled by ordinary lineman. Neutralized at the point in run defense.

Negatives: Timed speed is deceptive, as the player shed 20 pounds before his workout and generally plays in the 280-pound range Not as explosive when he's at his playing weight Shows strength against the run, but does not split the double team or neutralize blockers when engaging in head-up action Weight-room strength does not translate to the football field (would rather elude than take on the blocker) Uses his hands well, but is not a hit-and-shed type Best pass rushing off the edge, as he would rather not take on and defeat the offensive tackle or tight end (tries to throw rather than use shed moves to disengage).

Cons: Has been playing weak schedules and may struggle against big time talent. He needs to add power to the lower body to hold up against the big boys. He also should improve his balance and brush up his overall techniques for the NFL.
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Old 04-18-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner
I get the point you are making, but you have to be fair. This is why so many people are surprised when highly touted draftees enter the pros and aren't instant pro-bowlers. They sounded perfect! Look at all the posts where people here are thinking 3rd and 4th rounders are instant starters - they aren't looking at both sides of the coin.


From the same sources:

NEGATIVES: Slow-shedding blocks or handled by ordinary lineman. Neutralized at the point in run defense.

Negatives: Timed speed is deceptive, as the player shed 20 pounds before his workout and generally plays in the 280-pound range Not as explosive when he's at his playing weight Shows strength against the run, but does not split the double team or neutralize blockers when engaging in head-up action Weight-room strength does not translate to the football field (would rather elude than take on the blocker) Uses his hands well, but is not a hit-and-shed type Best pass rushing off the edge, as he would rather not take on and defeat the offensive tackle or tight end (tries to throw rather than use shed moves to disengage).

Cons: Has been playing weak schedules and may struggle against big time talent. He needs to add power to the lower body to hold up against the big boys. He also should improve his balance and brush up his overall techniques for the NFL.
All prospects have negatives, I was pointing out what was said about him as a DE since you said you didn't think babin or Peek were rated high as DE's, look at what I highlighted. And everything that was written about him that I posted was written abouty him playing DE in college.
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Old 04-18-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texan279
All prospects have negatives, I was pointing out what was said about him as a DE since you said you didn't think babin or Peek were rated high as DE's, look at what I highlighted. And everything that was written about him that I posted was written abouty him playing DE in college.
Right - he was a DE in college. All I'm saying is that he was drafted higher to be a 3-4 OLB than he would have been as a 4-3 DE. Many of the negatives listed detracted more from him as a DE than as an OLB, for instance the speed/explosiveness vs weight item.
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Old 04-18-2006   #10
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Originally Posted by Runner
Cons: Has been playing weak schedules and may struggle against big time talent.
Will this be the epitaph for Babin's NFL career ?
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Old 04-18-2006   #11
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Will this be the epitaph for Babin's NFL career ?
We can hope not. I think he is a better player than he's had the opportunity to show so far. I also wouldn't be surprised if we mixed in some 3-4 sets this season, so that might help.

If this year goes poorly for him he may eventually end up on another 3-4 team, and that may not be all bad for him. Players with 3-4 experience are harder to come by.
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Old 04-18-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [[Gary Kubiak]]
I just feel that this will happen one way or another. Two guys who were drafted to fit a 3-4 specifically. They can't be LBs cause they can't cover worth a lick on the 4-3.

More indications:

Weaver and Kalu
Peek getting a 1st round grade = inflating his value?

We could get a 2nd rounder for either guy.

2nd rounder for Babin?

lmao!

now that is funny
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Old 04-18-2006   #13
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I agree with the sentiment that it would be nice to trade them for something and start fresh - but we couldn't get a 3rd for both of them.

Plus, we need bodies and one of them might pan out. If not, we draft a RDE next year (and a CB since Buchy will be given another chance this year also).

Babin, in the Chronicle last weekend, said that the "dropping back" and coverage required by a LB had confused him and slowed him down (or words to that effect). Maybe (hopefully) restoring him to his old position where he does not have to think as much will let him develop.

My dream trade: Buchy, Wade and #65 for a high 2nd rounder.
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Old 04-18-2006   #14
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Originally Posted by Xman
My dream trade: Buchy, Wade and #65 for a high 2nd rounder.
that would be great, but I dont think there is that big of sucker out there. apparently we were the only ones stupid enough to trade for P Buck and sign Wade to LT money.
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Old 04-18-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trenches
that would be great, but I dont think there is that big of sucker out there. apparently we were the only ones stupid enough to trade for P Buck and sign Wade to LT money.
Maybe a running team could use Wade (or Miami would want him back).
Plus, we take the hit on the signing bonus, so whoever traded for him would get him at a much cheaper cap price than we are paying.
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Old 04-18-2006   #16
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My dream trade: Buchy, Wade and #65 for a high 2nd rounder.
I'd take a 8 pack of McNuggets for that trade.
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Old 04-18-2006   #17
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Trade babin...I like it
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Old 04-18-2006   #18
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i'll take babin.
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Old 04-18-2006   #19
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i'll give up a 3rd rounder in next year's draft at best for him. saban likes young talented players in the front 7, he'd be a great addition. not a starter, but depth is as important as your starters.
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Old 04-18-2006   #20
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If we had a team considering trading for Babin we should be happy. That guy needs to worry less about exotic hunting....and more about trying to be an NFL player.
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