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Old 04-17-2006   #1
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Default and the Saga begins again

Ever since the second year, there has been a trend.

What might you ask. The fans high on a player that the staff isnt.

2003- Sean Taylor did not make the team.. the screams were heard of pain and horror.

2004- Derrik Johnson- Was skipped over when we traded for a extra third (which got us 2nd pick of the third round).

2005- Can Bush be the boy this time that we skip over for someone else? Lots of people finding Mario Williams is getting a bunch of press lately. Do we trade down or take him here. Wow.
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Old 04-17-2006   #2
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Whichever way we go will change the looks of our franchise for quite sometime.
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Old 04-18-2006   #3
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Dime...uh....sorry. You're trying to sensationalize a Scooby-doo episode.

What's next....your 4 paragraphs on why Harrington was better than Carr....or the blockbuster known as AJ vs. Charles Rogers.

I hear the DYNAMO needs more fans. Have at it (with poignant thoughts like that).

Go Texans!
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Old 04-18-2006   #4
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I heard the same stuff - that we might pass over RB. I think this is smoke and mirrors bs to see if anyone wants to pull a Ditka.
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Old 04-18-2006   #5
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I don't think it is smoke and mirrors. I think it is an honest thought that we might take Mario. I think the staff is still leaning toward Bush -- I would put it at 60/40 myself -- but IMO Mario is hands down one of the best defensive prospects ever in recent years and would give us a ferocious pass rush, which of course is key to causing turnovers in the passing game and bolsters all-round defense. He is young and raw still (not many moves) but hey, he is already that good, will only get better, and is "NFL-ready" to start for any team at the age of 21.

I still think we will end up taking Bush, but don't fool yourself; if Mario comes on and is willing to play for less money, or something else as yet unforseen occurs, I think there is a very decent chance at Mario becoming a Texan April 29.
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Old 04-18-2006   #6
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I'm not trying to negate Mario, but as we get closer to the draft, more and more players will become "the next big thing." Mario has a good chance of being one, but I still think this is a ploy to test the waters/help sign Reggie. The only reason to take a Mario, IMO, is as part of a trade-down deal, and I think that would be a Ditka.

However, if I remember correctly, Cass was the GM of the Redskins who pulled said Ditka, so who knows. Interesting info on the Ditka maneuver and the players the Saints lost:

http://www.drafthistory.com/articles/article23.html
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Old 04-18-2006   #7
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It can't be 'ever' in recent years...it has to be EVER. The fact that Julius Peppers came out more highly regarded just a few years ago negates ever. In fact, a back hasn't been taken since 95 so RB would be a better 'ever.'

Look, this is a simple smokescreen to get a better deal with Reggie.

We're NOT drafting Mario.

We're NOT drafting Vince.

We're NOT going to allow Iran to have nuclear weapons.

There were NO additional gunmen in the grassy knoll.

Thank God the conspiracies end in less than 2 weeks.
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Old 04-18-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAMA
It can't be 'ever' in recent years...it has to be EVER. The fact that Julius Peppers came out more highly regarded just a few years ago negates ever. In fact, a back hasn't been taken since 95 so RB would be a better 'ever.'

Look, this is a simple smokescreen to get a better deal with Reggie.

We're NOT drafting Mario.

We're NOT drafting Vince.

We're NOT going to allow Iran to have nuclear weapons.

There were NO additional gunmen in the grassy knoll.

Thank God the conspiracies end in less than 2 weeks.
I think you hit the the nail on the head. It would have been incredibly stupid if the Texans did not bring in other top prospects to visit. You want to have as much information as you can possibly have before heading into the draft. And that Adam Schefter piece that's flying around here is not something I'm buying into. It doesn't make sense to pass up on the most dynamic college football player in recent memory over Mario Williams who's a physical specimen, but an inconsistent player at N.C.State. We need to win now and Bush gives us that option immediately. I would not be surprise at all if D'Brickashaw Ferguson and A.J. Hawk come into town for a visit.
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Old 04-18-2006   #9
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I also believe Reggie will sign because of his dream to be the first pick ever.
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Old 04-18-2006   #10
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I tend to agree with Jerek. Mario is a serious consideration, but in no way has he passed Bush on the wishlist. I think Bush is our guy, but he could price himself out of the spot or just in general our staff could feel we could get a good RB next year or later in the draft even a Jerious Norwood in the 4th could compete. I am one that thinks DD is good, but Morency if he learns to just run and not dance would be better. I think Bush will give us tremendous options on the offense side of the ball and will be a steve smith type guy at RB. On the other side of that Mario is rated higher than Peppers coming out and is pretty much the best DE to come out since well maybe Peppers or Courtney Brown. Now Brown had some bad years, but coming out of college he was raw.

My comparisons.
Mario: Reggie White w/Julius Peppers speed
Bush: Marshall Faulk w/Steve Smith's hands and toughness

We cannot go wrong either way. We will get alot of options either defensively or offensively. We are going to get a very big time playmaker in this draft and I can't wait till the 29th. Will be Tivo-ing it since I will be in Oslo during the draft.
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Old 04-18-2006   #11
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There is no way Mario should be valued as the number one pick. The only way we should take him, Brick or Hawk is by trading down. To pass up on Bush and Young and grab one of those players at one will be one of the stupidest moves we could make...
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Old 04-18-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAMA
It can't be 'ever' in recent years...it has to be EVER. The fact that Julius Peppers came out more highly regarded just a few years ago negates ever. In fact, a back hasn't been taken since 95 so RB would be a better 'ever.'

Look, this is a simple smokescreen to get a better deal with Reggie.

We're NOT drafting Mario.

We're NOT drafting Vince.

We're NOT going to allow Iran to have nuclear weapons.

There were NO additional gunmen in the grassy knoll.

Thank God the conspiracies end in less than 2 weeks.
Thank you, grammar police. I think that, all things considered, Bush is the slightly wiser choice for this team, but I do not consider him the hands-down consensus pick for the Houston Texans, and it pleases me to see that our FO at least appears to be giving due diligence on this in bringing in other worthwhile prospects.

Williams is as much a game changer on defense -- you know, the boring half of football that wins championships -- as Reggie is on offense. And Williams' measurables are all superior to Julius Peppers, so maybe my "ever" statement isn't so farfetched. The only question marks on Williams are simply lack of national press coverage and exposure. The only reason you aren't hearing much about the guy is because the Reggie/Vince wars have been so ****ing loud in the national media -- let alone on this board in particular -- so do not pretend that Williams is just some also-ran who was brought in so Kubes could do a song and dance for the papers and grab a bargaining chip.

I understand your support for Bush and I would tend to agree with it, but IMO you are parroting the reigning prevalant thought and not giving Williams (or the possibility of a trade, of which no serious trade offer will be made or considered for another week or so) a fair chance.
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Old 04-18-2006   #13
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I am definitly set in the RB camp,but will stand behind whatever our FO does. So far I think they have made smart decisions in FA,which brings me to this. Why would you sign to DE's,if you plan to draft a DE. Does'nt make alot of sense, since many believed we overpayed for Weaver. I for one would like to see alot of our #1 pick. If we take a DE that would mean our offense would suck(again) and our D would have to be on the field for a long,long time. I'm confused as to what they are doing but they're my team and will stand behind them 100%.C'mon 4-29-06!!!!!!!!!!!!!:brickwall
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Old 04-18-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eltoro
There is no way Mario should be valued as the number one pick. The only way we should take him, Brick or Hawk is by trading down. To pass up on Bush and Young and grab one of those players at one will be one of the stupidest moves we could make...
It does appear to be stupid to people who do not look at it from a macro economic standpoint. This is comical as many people on this thread think it came out of no where, especially when those same people were arguing against the feasability of this happening with other posters. I seem to remember it was the posters, pushing the notion that we could take Williams, were stupid and now the FO is stupid.

Please carry on....
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Old 04-18-2006   #15
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From the current ESPN chat:

jorge ( pa)
What's the word on Bush? I hear he may not go number one. If he doesn't go one where does he go and does that start some trading to get him?

TODD MCSHAY
That rumor has begun to circultate, but I'm not buying it. The Texans brought in M. Williams for 2 reasons: 1) In case they trade down, and 2) In order to gain some sort of leverage in the contract negotiations with Bush's agent, Joel Segal.

TODD MCSHAY
I have heard that the Jets are aggressively seaking a trade with the Texans b/c they want Bush. However, it would take an awful lot to get the Texans to budge -- picks No.'s 4, 29, 35 and possibly another 3rd rounder thrown in there.

PART II

chad(san antonio)
Let's say the Texans are able to trade down, would Vince Young be a possible pick say at 4 or 5?

TODD MCSHAY
No chance. If the Texans trade down it will be with the mindset of drafting either DE M. Williams or OT D. Ferguson.

Last edited by Errant Hothy; 04-18-2006 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 04-18-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy
TODD MCSHAY
I have heard that the Jets are aggressively seaking a trade with the Texans b/c they want Bush. However, it would take an awful lot to get the Texans to budge -- picks No.'s 4, 29, 35 and possibly another 3rd rounder thrown in there.
I'm not sure that even this would be enough picks. Every year is the best draft ever. So taking a bunch of players who are touted as the best players ever might not be the wisest decision. However, I have to admit that all those late picks in the first and the early second round would give the Texans a lot of nice projects.

Assuming they take Mario at 4, who do you think the other picks would go to? They could easily take one or two linemen and a pretty reputable cornerback/safety, I think.
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Old 04-18-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eltoro
There is no way Mario should be valued as the number one pick. The only way we should take him, Brick or Hawk is by trading down. To pass up on Bush and Young and grab one of those players at one will be one of the stupidest moves we could make...
Disagree with you on Vince...I'd take Bush or Hawk or Ferguson or Williams over Young. He'd be my last of the big 5 to take.

I do agree with you that the only way we should take Williams, Brick or Hawk is by trading down. The Aints threw a huge wrench in the machine, though, when they acquired Brees this offseason. Now THEY hold the trade card to be most coveted by teams desiring to move up.

This recent Wlliams hyping is by Texans front office design because they realize they haven't played the game enough...and they're going on a fishing expedition to see if they can trade out at all. Too little, too late if you ask me.

It'll be Texans taking Bush at no. 1 overall.
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Old 04-18-2006   #18
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What I'm trippin on is how all of you don't want to draft Reggie because he "never played against any NFL like teams" but with this Mario Williams kid who played for North Carolina State (who plays teams like NC, Duke etc...) noone is even thinking of that.
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Old 04-18-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sco-tai
Dime...uh....sorry. You're trying to sensationalize a Scooby-doo episode.

What's next....your 4 paragraphs on why Harrington was better than Carr....or the blockbuster known as AJ vs. Charles Rogers.

I hear the DYNAMO needs more fans. Have at it (with poignant thoughts like that).

Go Texans!
How can a Rookie here comment? You dont even know the point. Wait till I jingle your bell later before you talk.

For the rest of you, I just remember seeing people thinking we are going with a player like Taylor, or DJ and have been let down when someone who might be a shoe in, might not be on the top of the list. Come the 29th.. I hope we take Bush, but if we dont take him or trade down, I am fearing the woes to hit this board again. It took 3-4 months to get people over DJ. Same for Taylor.
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Old 04-18-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Tejano
What I'm trippin on is how all of you don't want to draft Reggie because he "never played against any NFL like teams" but with this Mario Williams kid who played for North Carolina State (who plays teams like NC, Duke etc...) noone is even thinking of that.
It is a frivolous comparison IMO (Williams is the man but Bush won't succeed) but the same kind of talk is nothing new on this board (Young sucks because he just played against college teams but Bush is great, vice versa).

However, what people do not really grasp of Williams, he is pretty much unrivaled in the history of the game as far as a total athletic package. No one in the history of football has combined his speed, size, and strength at the D-line position. The guy is 6'7", 295 and has been timed in the 40 and cone drills as being faster than many NFL LBs. That, my friends, is a freak of nature.

Bush has fantastic speed and moves and his game tape speaks for self. He is a fantastic athlete in his own right, and while Reggie Bush himself is not readily comparable to any past players (some have said Sayers, Sanders, Faulk, etc.) you are either too young to remember or some kind of revisionist historian if you think Bush hasn't been done before in some form or fashion, athletically speaking. Many NFL scouts and analysts are calling Mario Williams the best pure athlete in this draft, and rightfully (and verifiably so).

I still say we are going Bush, but this is not a smokescreen, this is the Texans taking a serious look at the real deal on the defensive side of the ball. I think Bush is slightly the more advantageous pick in terms of what he brings to the table for the Texans, but as guys like KT have pointed out, Bush's agent allegedly intends to take Bush's suitors for every last nickel he can get, and if a guy like Mario Williams is willing to play for substantially less, well that is going to balance the already close scales in his favor.

Will be an interesting ten days, that is for sure!
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