Elway/Montana........ Running QB??

[thunderkyss]

Just curious as to what you guys think... I think Elway was a running QB in the early 80s...... then became a scrambler..

Montanna, I've never thought of as a running QB, but definitely a scrambler.


just trying to get my definitions straight..... what do yall think??

[mexican_texan]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

Just curious as to what you guys think... I think Elway was a running QB in the early 80s...... then became a scrambler..

Montanna, I've never thought of as a running QB, but definitely a scrambler.


just trying to get my definitions straight..... what do yall think??

They weren't Michael Vick scramblers, but they could make and keep plays alive with their legs.

[HJam72]

I think there should be 3 categories:

1) Runner

2) Scrambler (meaning able to get 1st downs, but not break long runs)

3) Pocket Mover (meaning able to avoid the pressure, but not much on on doing the other two.)

I think Elway was a scrambler (and a runner when younger) and that Montana was a pocket mover. I think Brady is a pocket mover and Carr is a scrambler.

OK, come on with the jokes about how Carr is not a scrambler and that he's a fetal positioner.

[thunderkyss]

No, I'll give you Carr as a scrambler.

but Monatana a pocket passer?? Brady?? they don't break the line of scrimmage, but they are definitely scramblers....... just a different kind of scrambler.

[gtexan02]

Ok there are 4 categories:

1) Runner (Prefers to Run and is a threat to score everytime he breaks the pocket)
2) Scrambler (Can run and pass, but is really only a threat for a 1st down)
3) Pocket Mover (Prefers to pass, can break pocket to avoid pressure in the backfield)
4) Statue (Can move around in pocket, but rarely breaks it)

Therefore Vick = 1, Carr = 2, Brady = 3, and Bledsoe = 4

[HJam72]

Originally Posted by gtexan02

Ok there are 4 categories:

1) Runner (Prefers to Run and is a threat to score everytime he breaks the pocket)
2) Scrambler (Can run and pass, but is really only a threat for a 1st down)
3) Pocket Mover (Prefers to pass, can break pocket to avoid pressure in the backfield)
4) Statue (Can move around in pocket, but rarely breaks it)

Therefore Vick = 1, Carr = 2, Brady = 3, and Bledsoe = 4

Yeah, I'll go with that.

[Runner]

The difference between a jogger and a runner is an entry blank. ~ George Sheehan


Sorry - wrong sport.

[kastofsna]

you have your runners (cunningham, vick, v young), your scramblers (elway, s young, culpepper), your great footwork/pocket presence guys (montana, brady, leinart), and your statues (bledsoe, leftwich, boller). there's another, less rare category, and that is the "scrambler who has no clue how to scramble." rob johnson is clearly the most prominent member of this club.

[Kaiser Toro]

Pocket presence and footwork are usually the lowest common denominator for the best at their position and are the ones that ususally are playing for championships in my opinion. All of the others are usually reserved for discussions on how they were exiciting, never lived up to their potential or put up gaudy statistics but never yielded a championship.

Yes that was an opinionated wide sweeping brush.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

Pocket presence and footwork are usually the lowest common denominator for the best at their position and are the ones that ususally are playing for championships in my opinion. All of the others are usually reserved for discussions on how they were exiciting, never lived up to their potential or put up gaudy statistics but never yielded a championship.

Yes that was an opinionated wide sweeping brush.

So Manning & Marino have poor pocket presence, and footwork??

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

So Manning & Marino have poor pocket presence, and footwork??

I would think of them having great ability to read defenses, quick release and very good to strong arms more so than I would say they are like Montana, Brady, Aikman, Staubach, Bradshaw and Carr.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

I would think of them having great ability to read defenses, quick release and very good to strong arms more so than I would say they are like Montana, Brady, Aikman, Staubach, Bradshaw and Carr.

I'm even more confused..... are you saying Peyton/Marino had good pocket presence or not??

[threetoedpete]

Originally Posted by thunderkyss

I'm even more confused..... are you saying Peyton/Marino had good pocket presence or not??

Both of those guys have/had leathal releases. They built a wall around Marino, and when he ran, they broke out the sundial. By pocket prescence, you mean did they know the pocket was going to break down befor they got sacked, yeah.
You can look up Marino's stats and if I remember correctly, even with his sundail speed, his release of the football was so good, no one could get to him. I think Peyton is pretty much the same way. Their release is/was so quick it makes it very difficult to get them down on the ground. And that, is one of the reasons that dropped Rogers down to Green Bay a couple of drafts ago. Guys with long looping wind ups slide in the draft. They're easier to sack. & don't be too shocked in a couple of weeks if the same thing doesn't happpen to Lionheart. Not say it "will" happen. But it could.

[thunderkyss]

Originally Posted by threetoedpete

Both of those guys have/had leathal releases. They built a wall around Marino, and when he ran, they broke out the sundial. By pocket prescence, you mean did they know the pocket was going to break down befor they got sacked, yeah.
You can look up Marino's stats and if I remember correctly, even with his sundail speed, his release of the football was so good, no one could get to him. I think Peyton is pretty much the same way. Their release is/was so quick it makes it very difficult to get them down on the ground. And that, is one of the reasons that dropped Rogers down to Green Bay a couple of drafts ago. Guys with long looping wind ups slide in the draft. They're easier to sack. & don't be too shocked in a couple of weeks if the same thing doesn't happpen to Lionheart. Not say it "will" happen. But it could.

Yeah, I got all that, but he put them in the same group as Bradshaw & Carr.

[Double Barrel]

For some reason, I've always thought the term "scrambling QB" was like Roger Staubach or Fran Tarkenton. QBs who would scramble around behind the line of scrimmage until a receiver finally got open. Maybe the definition of the term is changing, though, with the new breed of "running QB".