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Old 04-12-2006   #1
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Default Wow............. 2006 Quarterback class....

I think I've mentioned before, that I don't watch college football. I don't know Brady Croyle from A.J. Hawk. You won't see me in too many mock threads, or anything like that, since I don't know any of the players. The only College games I've seen are the UT games. Jamaal Charles is from my hometown, he's a good friend of my nephew, and I've talked to him before. He's a good kid, I genuinly like him. I support everything he does, and I will watch every game he's in, & I'll root for him all the way to the NFL HOF. Two, maybe three years, I'll be rooting for him to be drafted by the Houston Texans.
But that is the only way I know Vince Young. My brother-in-law made me watch the 2004 Rose Bowl. I was genuinly impressed, and believe that anyone who wasn't is insane. But I didn't think too much about him, and if Jamaal Charles wasn't playing @UT, I wouldn't have watched the 2005 RoseBowl. NC or not. So, I've watched him all year, and I was saddened, thinking he wouldn't be eligible for the 2005 NFL draft once I found out Houston would have the #1/#2 pick.
I've heard about Matt Lienart. Alot over the last month. But I haven't seen him play other than the RoseBowl.
I've seen a little Jay Cutler working out for the Senior Bowl, But I didn't watch the Senior Bowl.

But I'm watching the NFL Network right now. They're doing their NFL draft preview. & I've got to say wow....... there are some nice QBs in this draft. I'll take a mobile QB over a statue any day. He doesn't have to be Vince Young Mobile, but at least John Elway mobile. And their are many in this draft, that are at least John Elway mobile, and that includes Matt Lienart.

So for all you guys who say that if QB is such a big concern, why isn't Matt Lienart on the list........... Let's put Matt Lienart on the list. I've got questions about his arm strength, but he looks just as if not more mobile than Carr. If he's smarter....... let's take a look at him. Of course, I've always been open to Jay Cutler, Reggie McNeal & Omar Jacobs, but you can add Charlie WhiteHurst, Kellen Clemens to my list of prospects......

But I'm still more familiar with Vince, I know he's got it....... I know he's off the charts in intangibles.... I think he is just as electrifying, and exciting to watch as Reggie Bush, and being a QB, I think that trumps RB......... that's just me though.

I'd be happy if the Texans would draft any of these guys.
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Old 04-12-2006   #2
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Originally Posted by thunderkyss
I think I've mentioned before, that I don't watch college football. I don't know Brady Croyle from A.J. Hawk. You won't see me in too many mock threads, or anything like that, since I don't know any of the players. The only College games I've seen are the UT games. Jamaal Charles is from my hometown, he's a good friend of my nephew, and I've talked to him before. He's a good kid, I genuinly like him. I support everything he does, and I will watch every game he's in, & I'll root for him all the way to the NFL HOF. Two, maybe three years, I'll be rooting for him to be drafted by the Houston Texans.
But that is the only way I know Vince Young. My brother-in-law made me watch the 2004 Rose Bowl. I was genuinly impressed, and believe that anyone who wasn't is insane. But I didn't think too much about him, and if Jamaal Charles wasn't playing @UT, I wouldn't have watched the 2005 RoseBowl. NC or not. So, I've watched him all year, and I was saddened, thinking he wouldn't be eligible for the 2005 NFL draft once I found out Houston would have the #1/#2 pick.
I've heard about Matt Lienart. Alot over the last month. But I haven't seen him play other than the RoseBowl.
I've seen a little Jay Cutler working out for the Senior Bowl, But I didn't watch the Senior Bowl.

But I'm watching the NFL Network right now. They're doing their NFL draft preview. & I've got to say wow....... there are some nice QBs in this draft. I'll take a mobile QB over a statue any day. He doesn't have to be Vince Young Mobile, but at least John Elway mobile. And their are many in this draft, that are at least John Elway mobile, and that includes Matt Lienart.

So for all you guys who say that if QB is such a big concern, why isn't Matt Lienart on the list........... Let's put Matt Lienart on the list. I've got questions about his arm strength, but he looks just as if not more mobile than Carr. If he's smarter....... let's take a look at him. Of course, I've always been open to Jay Cutler, Reggie McNeal & Omar Jacobs, but you can add Charlie WhiteHurst, Kellen Clemens to my list of prospects......

But I'm still more familiar with Vince, I know he's got it....... I know he's off the charts in intangibles.... I think he is just as electrifying, and exciting to watch as Reggie Bush, and being a QB, I think that trumps RB......... that's just me though.

I'd be happy if the Texans would draft any of these guys.
Leinart does not have the mobility of David Carr. I'd put him with the likes of Peyton Manning.
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Old 04-12-2006   #3
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Leinart does not have the mobility of David Carr. I'd put him with the likes of Peyton Manning.
So do I. Matt Lienart just seems slow footed. I thought I heard he ran the 40 close to 5 seconds somewhere. I could be mistaken.
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Old 04-12-2006   #4
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So do I. Matt Lienart just seems slow footed. I thought I heard he ran the 40 close to 5 seconds somewhere. I could be mistaken.
Leinart moves nicely within the pocket though.
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Old 04-12-2006   #5
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leinart has excellent pocket vision, footwork and mobility. he's a LOT more mobile than peyton manning, make no mistake about it. if he's a statue, than so is tom brady.
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Old 04-12-2006   #6
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I still think Leinart is the best QB in the draft. Tailed very closely by Jay Cutler.
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Old 04-13-2006   #7
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Originally Posted by kastofsna
leinart has excellent pocket vision, footwork and mobility. he's a LOT more mobile than peyton manning, make no mistake about it. if he's a statue, than so is tom brady.
I agree, much more mobile than the older Manning....... much like David IMHO, he might not be as fast, but I'd have to see them side by side to say definitly one way or the other.
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Old 04-13-2006   #8
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I can't believe I got negative reputation points for the first post in this thread??


What did I say??

There are some nice QBs in this draft??


WTF??

no explanation, no nothing.
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Old 04-13-2006   #9
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Originally Posted by thunderkyss
I agree, much more mobile than the older Manning....... much like David IMHO, he might not be as fast, but I'd have to see them side by side to say definitly one way or the other.
Two totally different things. Leinart, Big Ben and Brady have mobility within the back field. They have pocket presence and will buy time but are not threats to make things actually happen with their feet (there will be a few plays, but generally). Carr has lacked in that regard (actually it is one of his biggest needs for improvement IMO) but has been a huge surprise to the league in how mobile he is down field, i.e. a threat to pick up first downs with his feet. Over 33% of his rushes resulted in 1st downs the last 3 years.
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Old 04-13-2006   #10
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delhomme and hasselbeck are both in that brady/roethlisberger/leinart category for pocket mobility. and it's no coincidence that the better your pocket presence, the more games you win.
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Old 04-13-2006   #11
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delhomme and hasselbeck are both in that brady/roethlisberger/leinart category for pocket mobility. and it's no coincidence that the better your pocket presence, the more games you win.
Having a compatent coaching staff, An OL, and more than one weapon on offense doesn't hurt either.
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Old 04-13-2006   #12
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
Two totally different things. Leinart, Big Ben and Brady have mobility within the back field. They have pocket presence and will buy time but are not threats to make things actually happen with their feet (there will be a few plays, but generally). Carr has lacked in that regard (actually it is one of his biggest needs for improvement IMO) but has been a huge surprise to the league in how mobile he is down field, i.e. a threat to pick up first downs with his feet. Over 33% of his rushes resulted in 1st downs the last 3 years.
the rest resulted in loss of yardage or a sack
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Old 04-13-2006   #13
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the rest resulted in loss of yardage or a sack
Was that really intended to add something to the conversation or was it a drive by? Are you asserting Carr is not relative to other NFL QB's a fairly effective down field runner (as clearly stated above a separate subject from pocket presence)?
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Old 04-13-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss
I can't believe I got negative reputation points for the first post in this thread??


What did I say??

There are some nice QBs in this draft??


WTF??

no explanation, no nothing.
I know who it is...and he gives negative rep points for simply not being in tune with his agenda, so don't feel bad. There are a handful of guys like this and I disabled a few of them from giving or taking rep points since it’s really not in the spirit of the reputation system....but whatchagonnado? Not everyone will be fair, or will use this correctly.
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Old 04-13-2006   #15
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
Two totally different things. Leinart, Big Ben and Brady have mobility within the back field. They have pocket presence and will buy time but are not threats to make things actually happen with their feet (there will be a few plays, but generally). Carr has lacked in that regard (actually it is one of his biggest needs for improvement IMO) but has been a huge surprise to the league in how mobile he is down field, i.e. a threat to pick up first downs with his feet. Over 33% of his rushes resulted in 1st downs the last 3 years.
I started this thread, after watching an NFL network piece on the QBs in the draft. I saw highlights of Matt move....... picking up first downs, rushing for touchdowns....... he looked pretty good. I know they were the highlights, and I know it's not part of his game. I'm not saying he is better than Carr, but in those shots, he moved a lot like Carr, and I mean that in a good way. I'm not arguing his pocket presence, or his use of the pocket. I'm just saying I thought he was a statue...... but he's actually pretty Mobile.......

Kinda like Bledsoe...... it's not part of his game, but he can make plays with his legs every now and then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kastofsna
delhomme and hasselbeck are both in that brady/roethlisberger/leinart category for pocket mobility. and it's no coincidence that the better your pocket presence, the more games you win.
I guess that's why even though the Saints have had QB after QB, Aaron Brooks is the New Orleans Saints winningest QB to date?? Or why McNabb managed to get to the NFC championship game three games running, and one SB...... Why Elway, and Montanna have winning records as Starters, and a few SuperBowls to boot.

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Originally Posted by Vinny
I know who it is...and he gives negative rep points for simply not being in tune with his agenda, so don't feel bad. There are a handful of guys like this and I disabled a few of them from giving or taking rep points since itís really not in the spirit of the reputation system....but whatchagonnado? Not everyone will be fair, or will use this correctly.
Sir, if you're not going to tell me who it is, does it really make since to tell me you know who it is?? Now I'm mad at him, and you.......

a "simple don't feel bad" would have been nice.

Thanks dude
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Old 04-13-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss
I can't believe I got negative reputation points for the first post in this thread??


What did I say??

There are some nice QBs in this draft??


WTF??

no explanation, no nothing.
First: I have never given negative rep to anyone, so it wasn't me.

Second: There is nothing wrong with being pro-Young.

That being said, the only thing I questioned in the post was that you are so adamantly pro-Young while admitting you don't watch much college ball. It made me wonder what you compare Young against to put him on so high a pedestal.

I'm not very firm in my draft opinions because I haven't watched enough of the top players at any given position enough to form my own opinion. I've seen a couple of games for some of the top prospects, but not enough for a real evaluation of the top 50 draft candidates by any means. Gleaning facts from all the available sources is interesting, but so much is slanted I don't know how much value it has.


I was going to let this slide, but you asked (kind of).
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Old 04-13-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss
Sir, if you're not going to tell me who it is, does it really make since to tell me you know who it is?? Now I'm mad at him, and you.......

a "simple don't feel bad" would have been nice.

Thanks dude
Ok, next time I'll just let you wonder if someone is being fair or if your posts just suck and you can't see it, but I'm not going to let you guys get into PM flame wars on this site. If you are going to be mad at me for trying to make you feel better....you go girl.
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Old 04-13-2006   #18
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Don't feel too bad about the negative rep. They hit me for saying things like "Vince Young's capable of throwing long bombs."

Then they never have the stones to leave a comment or identify themselves.
Just part of the game.
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Old 04-13-2006   #19
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First: I have never given negative rep to anyone, so it wasn't me.

Second: There is nothing wrong with being pro-Young.

That being said, the only thing I questioned in the post was that you are so adamantly pro-Young while admitting you don't watch much college ball. It made me wonder what you compare Young against to put him on so high a pedestal.


I was going to let this slide, but you asked (kind of).
I don't watch college football, because for me, Sunday is dedicated to the NFL... If I start watching college ball on Saturday, then I may lose my wife and kids.

Every now and again, when a special player comes along, I'll try to catch a game, if I'm intrigued, I'll try to catch another and another.

This happened a while back, my Brother in law was telling me I've got to watch this guy by the name of Donovan McNabb. So I went over, and watched a game with him. I said, "Syracus?? I didn't know they had a football team." anyhow I watched the first half of that game, and wasn't impressed at all. Then during halftime, they showed this Virgini Tech game,(it was bowl week, I remember now) & they had this bad ess QB running all over the place. We ended up watching the second half of that game. That was exciting. I watched a few of that guys games the following year. I think he went #1, which I thought was crazy....... the guy barely threw the ball. Of course, that was Michael Vick. I like watching that guy play, don't get me wrong..... but I wouldn't want him on my team, and I didn't agree with the big deal Atlanta gave him, when he has yet to play 16 games in the regular season.

then Joey Harrington caught my eye. I watched six of his games, & I was very impressed, very intrigued........ I didn't catch his last few games, so I really didn't have an idea of where he was going to end up in the draft. I knew Houston would most likely take a QB with the first, so I was hoping it would be Joey.

My brother in Law told me that wasn't going to happen, that there was this kid, that was probably going to be the next Aikman(where I thought of Harrington at the time as the next Farve). I watched a few NFL draft shows, where they go over the prospects, I saw David, and I said, "hmmmmmmmmmm. not bad"

David got drafted by the Texans, Joey got drafted by Detroit...... I figured Joey would probably be out of the league in 5 years.

My Brother n law invited me to his place, again, to watch the 2005 Rosebowl. And I saw an awesome little QB playing for UT.... he totally captured every camera, and regardless which teams offense was on the field, he was the guy the announcers were talking about. Exciting, but I didn't care for that style personally.

Of Course, Jamaal Charles just happened to get recruited by UT. We didn't expect him to play much, but a lot of folks in my family decided to watch every UT game just in case he got to play..... We saw him play live at home, but figured he was going to be a small fish, and not play much, especially with Mack Brown who favored the older players, regardless of talent. Jamaal got in on that first game, and tore it up...... he eventually played in every game I think. But all the while, this QB, that I saw the year before, kept taking over games....... It seemed to me, the first half he would play from the pocket. but it wasn't working for him, often getting himself and the team behind.... It wasn't that he wasn't making the right reads, or bad throws, things just wasn't clicking for him and the offense. It seemed like every second half he would put on his running shoes, and change the game. But he wasn't just running like he had the year before, he was mixing it up pretty well. So well, that his passing #s were comparable to "pocket passers" and his running numbers were up there with the best runners. This kid looked like the best of both worlds.

In all my campaigning, I usually stay away from direct comparisons........ If I do, it's normally using stats, or the things (Matt's) supporters accept as true... week arm, statue.

Reggie Bush, I'll admit (and have) to only watching two games. ONe, early in the season, I was told I need to watch him....... I must have caught a bad game. I only watched the first half, he barely got the ball, and he didn't look like a homerun threat when he did. I then went out and finished cutting my grass.

Then I watched him in the RoseBowl. on that touchdown run, where he did turn the corner......... that was impressive.......... that I think is the only time he showed his speed in that game. Even on that play where he made the lateral pass...... he got ahead of everyone, but he didn't look as fast...... may have been because of all the open field, where on the sideline I could see how fast he was moving past the people on the sideline.

But my argument against Reggie has been more along the lines of we don't need a running back as much as we need a QB. I actually started the whole thing, so the Bush folks could see that my arguments to draft a QB are just as silly as their argument to draft a RB........ Trade down, was the right move back then.

I don't know Reggie Bush....... if he's everything you guys and the "experts"(and I trust the guys here, Vinny, Morknolle, Jerek, and infantrycak more than I trust Mel Kipper, John Clayton, etc... on player evaluation).. then wonderful. I can't wait till Sept 10th.

At the same time, I know, and you know there is a chance David won't be more than good........... some people are fine with that. You can win a superbowl with just good. You can win a super bowl with a fair RB too.
My biggest fear, is that we'll be looking for a QB in two years..... two years, Vince will be disecting defenses, breaking ankles, and making probowlers look silly. Maybe.
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Old 04-13-2006   #20
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Originally Posted by Vinny
Ok, next time I'll just let you wonder if someone is being fair or if your posts just suck and you can't see it, but I'm not going to let you guys get into PM flame wars on this site. If you are going to be mad at me for trying to make you feel better....you go girl.

I jus play'n
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