Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-11-2006   #1
Ibar_Harry
Hall of Fame
 
Ibar_Harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,219
Rep Power: 15 Ibar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVP
Default Money and Defense

Are these the issues now facing the Texans. Today they brought in a top Defensive pick. Is this a sign that we might be thinking trade down and not taking either Young or Bush.

I'm beginning to wonder if both would literally break the bank, since we have been very active in FA. Is it possible that they are saying we have a QB, DD and Morancy, Moulds & Putzier, so offensively we are in pretty good shape. There is so much controversy about the number 1 pick that may be they have decided to try to get more for their money and trade down or at least be prepared if that option arises. I think there is tremendous anxiety in the Texans organization as to what should be done. I don't believe it is a clear cut decision.

Defensively we were hurt very badly by injuries in year 2 and have never recovered from that fiasco. Players are still recovering from that period. Perhaps we have a suitor who is willing to give us a bomb shell deal. We have seen the Texans before take a course that was a surprise. Most certainly the last two years have gone kind of against the grain, so may be they are thinking the same way this year.

After all if we could get 3 or 4 players for the number 1, we might be better off as a whole. There is no question the 2 top guys are excellent, but you have only so much money with the salary cap. We need defensive players, so I think its a real possibility. They have talked to the top 2 prospects agents and I don't think they were shy about what they were asking. If you recall the Bush press conference he did mention he wouldn't be low balled. I have a feeling there might be more to this than meets the eye.
Ibar_Harry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #2
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
 
dalemurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Austin
Section: Bullpen/ 636
Age: 40
Posts: 5,719
Rep Power: 52681 dalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Ibar, I would love to see us have 7 of the first 100 picks in this draft. Dumb luck is going to get you 3 or 4 good players. Barring injuries, the only thing that will ruin this draft for the Texans, IMO, is spending the first pick on a long holdout. I like the idea of avoiding that result even at the cost of the player that may be highest on their board.
dalemurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #3
Ibar_Harry
Hall of Fame
 
Ibar_Harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,219
Rep Power: 15 Ibar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy
Ibar, I would love to see us have 7 of the first 100 picks in this draft. Dumb luck is going to get you 3 or 4 good players. Barring injuries, the only thing that will ruin this draft for the Texans, IMO, is spending the first pick on a long holdout. I like the idea of avoiding that result even at the cost of the player that may be highest on their board.
I'm just getting a funny feeling about this thing. Both of these guys are looking for top dollar. I do believe Vince would be the cheaper of the 2, but given what they have done with Carr's contract I think he would have to be a whole lot cheaper. I'm simply talking economics, not skill. That's why I'm beginning to wonder about what we might do.

Add in the fact that Kubiak says use must be able to run the ball and stop the run. We had problems with stopping the run last year, but Weaver will definitely help, but we are still weak defensively. When you have 3 or 4 shots you are more likely to have success, plus you are going to pay them a whole lot less. I really think reality is setting in and that's what they are considering.
Ibar_Harry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #4
dalemurphy
Hall of Fame
 
dalemurphy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Austin
Section: Bullpen/ 636
Age: 40
Posts: 5,719
Rep Power: 52681 dalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respecteddalemurphy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I hope so. I've really warmed up to the idea of drafting Bush. However, as a rule, I think the first pick of the draft is overvalued both in position and financially. Especially with a draft like this one, there is such depth and it's depth in all of our need areas: CB, OT, LB... I would still like to see a trade down even if the value is considered to be particularly good- as long as it's for picks in this year's draft. I would love for someone like Jerry Jones to trade us pick #18, #50, #82 for our #1 and then brag about how they took advantage of us. Meanwhile instead of Bush, those picks could net us something like: Jimmy Williams, Colledge, Ko Simpson... which combined with the rest of our draft 33, 65, 66, 98 would make the next few years around here a hell of a good time!
dalemurphy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #5
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 45,055
Rep Power: 299943 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy
I would love for someone like Jerry Jones to trade us pick #18, #50, #82 for our #1 and then brag about how they took advantage of us.
I would love to trade down for good value and know the value chart isn't the bible, but that is half the value according to the chart. Recently teams have paid a premium to move up rather than getting that kind of discount. On the general idea I agree though, although as AJ has pointed out, having a ton of picks coming up for contract renewal at the same time could be a serious problem down the road as well.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #6
Ibar_Harry
Hall of Fame
 
Ibar_Harry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2,219
Rep Power: 15 Ibar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVPIbar_Harry was voted MVP
Default

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3785598.html

Here are some further comments on Willians including some comments by Bob McNair. Sounds like defense might be an issue. However, I still think money might be a big factor.
Ibar_Harry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #7
Erratic Assassin
All Pro
 
Erratic Assassin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 534
Rep Power: 13 Erratic Assassin was voted MVPErratic Assassin was voted MVPErratic Assassin was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy
as a rule, I think the first pick of the draft is overvalued both in position and financially. Especially with a draft like this one, there is such depth and it's depth in all of our need areas: CB, OT, LB... I would still like to see a trade down even if the value is considered to be particularly good- as long as it's for picks in this year's draft.
Same here. I don't like having all that money tied up in one player. Everyone covets the #1 overall pick because it's glamorous. I'd love to trade with some ego-maniac who wants his trophy-wife player and pick up some solid players who are more of a value, while actually addressing our need positions.
__________________
Apparently they don't teach you how to use toaster ovens in business school!
Erratic Assassin is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 04-11-2006   #8
Malloy
Site Contributor
 
Malloy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: CPH
Age: 40
Posts: 5,536
Rep Power: 10235 Malloy is a quality contributor and well respectedMalloy is a quality contributor and well respectedMalloy is a quality contributor and well respectedMalloy is a quality contributor and well respectedMalloy is a quality contributor and well respectedMalloy is a quality contributor and well respectedMalloy is a quality contributor and well respectedMalloy is a quality contributor and well respectedMalloy is a quality contributor and well respectedMalloy is a quality contributor and well respectedMalloy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erratic Assassin
Same here. I don't like having all that money tied up in one player. Everyone covets the #1 overall pick because it's glamorous. I'd love to trade with some ego-maniac who wants his trophy-wife player and pick up some solid players who are more of a value, while actually addressing our need positions.
We should give the Cowboys a call then
__________________
Insanity is my only means of relaxation
Malloy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #9
texman8
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: north houston
Posts: 447
Rep Power: 11 texman8 is ridin' the pine
Default

The trade down scenario ,IMO, would only work if it will guarantee getting Mario Williams or even Bush. With Saints there at #2, they could take Williams so we could lose out on him.

Which team is willing to trade up with us? Jets? Titans? Not sure these teams are willing to pay the price to do it. I don't want us to undersell our position.

As far as tying up too much money in one position.....at DE, Williams can play opposite Weaver or take his place when Weaver move inside. at RB, Bush will split his time at RB and WR. Texans can structure the #1 pick's contract to minimize cap problems by offering incentives,by backloading the deal,or by offering voidable years. I don't think money will be a major problem since McNair is willing to spend what's necessary in bonuses. We will see if Bush's agent will be unreasonable.
texman8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #10
texman8
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: north houston
Posts: 447
Rep Power: 11 texman8 is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malloy
We should give the Cowboys a call then
Haha. They're going to have to give us a Ricky Williams deal (Ditka).
texman8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #11
nunusguy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 8,991
Rep Power: 185 nunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respectednunusguy is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by [[Gary Kubiak]]
If we trade to 4-5 Mario or Hawk willbe there. We really need to help our D in the draft.
Chances are Mario is a top 3, top 4 is even more certain but Hawk will very well be available at 5 and he would be a valuable addition to our D and even though LBs aren't as highly valued as DL he is such a tremendous prospect who could be the "John Vilma" of our defense, who is not only a big time palyer but the team D captain. But Hawk can play any LB position in the 4-3 (probably any LB position in the 3-4 for that matter), and he is an every down back because of his speed and athletictism.
I'm a huge Reggie fan and will be thrilled if we pick him, but I do have one real reservation about taking him with the highest draft pick - the risk of injury. Anybody is suseptible to injury in the NFL of course, but for obvious
reasons the risk is higher, probably much higher for running backs. For that reason, the right deal getting us approximate value for the #1 should be
given every consideration.
nunusguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #12
tulexan
Hall of Fame
 
tulexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Age: 30
Posts: 5,080
Rep Power: 27 tulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famertulexan is a Hall of Famer
Default

Even though the FO is saying that he isn't brought in just to gain leverage for contract negotiations, I believe he is. Bush doesn't want to go #2. Not only will he be getting a lot less money, but he will be playing in New Orleans and there is also no guarantee that he will go #2.
tulexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #13
Bearfan Blue and Orange
Veteran
 
Bearfan Blue and Orange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 43
Posts: 389
Rep Power: 9 Bearfan Blue and Orange is a team player
Default

I have been saying the last 2 weeks that they need to trade down and get 3 or 4 picks for Bush, I have this gut feeling that He is going to be a HOLDOUT because everyone has made the mistake of putting this guy on a pedistal where no-onw can touch him. If you can get a team to stack the money that high to reach him, then he may walk off the pedistal and collect.

Watch, Vince young will not be going to the Titans, and will probably fall to #8 with the Raiders because I believe the teams between the Titans and the Raiders do not have the desparate need for a QB.

I know one thing, no matter where Bush ends up, I will be waiting for that one time when he meets the 260 LB in the NFL that lights his A** UP... WELCOME TO THE NFL!!! There are no Bushes in the NFL... Only OAK Trees!!!
Bearfan Blue and Orange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #14
Trenches
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 171
Rep Power: 9 Trenches is ridin' the pine
Default

McNair better make damn sure he is willing to pay what Bush and his agent want because this guy has been made into a football God and will settle for nothing less than being paid like one. I could see a LONG holdout if our camp wants to break him.

As far as trading down, we are not going to get 3-4 picks. Why go to #1 when you can go to #2 and get the player you want? Which, interestingly, why do you hear nothing about other teams being in love with Bush and wanting to trade up? Maybe its just me but I hear zero talk about that. IMO, having such a huge contract is going to make creating a well rounded team very tough to do.
Trenches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #15
Bearfan Blue and Orange
Veteran
 
Bearfan Blue and Orange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 43
Posts: 389
Rep Power: 9 Bearfan Blue and Orange is a team player
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trenches
McNair better make damn sure he is willing to pay what Bush and his agent want because this guy has been made into a football God and will settle for nothing less than being paid like one. I could see a LONG holdout if our camp wants to break him.

As far as trading down, we are not going to get 3-4 picks. Why go to #1 when you can go to #2 and get the player you want? Which, interestingly, why do you hear nothing about other teams being in love with Bush and wanting to trade up? Maybe its just me but I hear zero talk about that. IMO, having such a huge contract is going to make creating a well rounded team very tough to do.

Although if he is the Football God everyone has made him to be. He should be able to snap the ball to himself, throw it 30 yards downfield, block the LB and still outleap the CB for the ball and have enough energy to break it the rest of the 20-30 yards for the TD...

NOT... Let's get back to reality. Are we forgetting that football is probably the true TEAM sport today. One player does not make the team, but One player can BREAK the team. When Reggie gets this contract, years from now who is going to be able to sign him??? If he stays healthy the whole time I guarantee the team that drafts him will not be able to afford to keep him, he is not going to take a cut.
Bearfan Blue and Orange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #16
TheOgre
Hall of Fame
 
TheOgre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Back in the cellar again
Posts: 3,739
Rep Power: 17 TheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVP
Default

I think our pass defense will stink this year. That will be our team weakness.
__________________
"...the Texans select...Adrian Peterson, RB, University of Oklahoma."
TheOgre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #17
Meloy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,834
Rep Power: 14 Meloy was voted MVPMeloy was voted MVPMeloy was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy
I hope so. I've really warmed up to the idea of drafting Bush. However, as a rule, I think the first pick of the draft is overvalued both in position and financially. Especially with a draft like this one, there is such depth and it's depth in all of our need areas: CB, OT, LB... I would still like to see a trade down even if the value is considered to be particularly good- as long as it's for picks in this year's draft. I would love for someone like Jerry Jones to trade us pick #18, #50, #82 for our #1 and then brag about how they took advantage of us. Meanwhile instead of Bush, those picks could net us something like: Jimmy Williams, Colledge, Ko Simpson... which combined with the rest of our draft 33, 65, 66, 98 would make the next few years around here a hell of a good time!
You would trade from the # 1 pick for the 18th? I am open to a bombshell but that ain't it. You have to stay in top 4 or 5 and pick up A LOT to do that. Listen, Bush is considered to be the best back prospect in NFL history. He offers you a back, a return guy and a receiver. Of course he wants some bucks. He will not be a signing problem and will be in camp on time.
Meloy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #18
Bearfan Blue and Orange
Veteran
 
Bearfan Blue and Orange's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 43
Posts: 389
Rep Power: 9 Bearfan Blue and Orange is a team player
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meloy
You would trade from the # 1 pick for the 18th? I am open to a bombshell but that ain't it. You have to stay in top 4 or 5 and pick up A LOT to do that. Listen, Bush is considered to be the best back prospect in NFL history. He offers you a back, a return guy and a receiver. Of course he wants some bucks. He will not be a signing problem and will be in camp on time.
This is just my opinion, but if I am going to pay Bush that much... 1. he is not going to do kick, and 2. he will be minimal at lining up as a WR. I am paying you to be a threatening RB, that is what he better do. We will send you in motion once and a while and you will get looks out of the backfield, but RB first.

I feel bad for the team that gets to draft him, he will not be signed by anyone by the start of training camp, and hopefully he gets into training camp.
Bearfan Blue and Orange is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #19
kiwitexansfan
Site Contributor
 
kiwitexansfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Age: 37
Posts: 9,241
Rep Power: 72750 kiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respectedkiwitexansfan is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I too have been for drafting defense, but that to me means in rounds 2-7.
Round one you have to draft a beast. Be that Bush, Young, Williams one of those guys has to be ours. If we can get that and trade down as well so be it but I don't want to shoot for the moon and have it blow up in our face
kiwitexansfan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2006   #20
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
 
swtbound07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Tampa, Florida
Age: 28
Posts: 9,474
Rep Power: 904 swtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meloy
You would trade from the # 1 pick for the 18th? I am open to a bombshell but that ain't it. You have to stay in top 4 or 5 and pick up A LOT to do that. Listen, Bush is considered to be the best back prospect in NFL history. He offers you a back, a return guy and a receiver. Of course he wants some bucks. He will not be a signing problem and will be in camp on time.

first of all, you dont know he wont hold out. He might.

Second, I can think of 20 backs i would rather have on my team coming out of the draft than reggie bush.

in no particular order
barry sanders
gale sayers
walter payton
earl campbell
thurman thomas
ladanian tomlinson
larry johnson
jim brown
emmitt smith
priest holmes
marshall faulk
eric dickerson
shawn alexander
oj simpson
edgerrin james
terrell davis
Curtis Martin
Warrick Dunn
Tiki Barber
Brian Westbrook
and as a bonus, dominack davis


I dont think Reggie is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and i dont think his pro career will revolutionize the position. Im just saying, comparing him to running backs who have had brilliant and even great careers is ridiculous. If he ever sniffs a barry sanders like rushing career i would be shocked.
__________________

Sig by Michaelm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Maher
"I'll show you Obama's birth certificate when you show me Sarah Palin's high school diploma"
swtbound07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:53 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger