Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-23-2004   #21
aj.
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,769
Rep Power: 658 aj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

There's nothing more precious than someone calling out someone else's spelling while making multiple spelling errors of their own. Unless it was supposed to be humor or something...

Anyway, from everything I've read and heard the goal is 30 running plays per game (35 passing) with a 2/3 split to DD (20/10 - DD/Hollings).

The backside blocks weren't there on Saturday night. Wade was getting beat to the inside by the Steelers LDE who was shading him to the inside. Since Wade couldn't beat the guy inside it closed the center-left guard gap (where at least two of Hollings runs were designed to go) too early. If you look at the tape, if Wade is able to head off the LDE, Hollings breaks a couple for 20. It's those kind of little things that most people never see.
aj. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004   #22
Fiddy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston/Austin
Age: 26
Posts: 4,314
Rep Power: 18 Fiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVP
Send a message via AIM to Fiddy Send a message via MSN to Fiddy Send a message via Yahoo to Fiddy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
If they do that (basically split the carries between Davis and Hollings), then the coaching staff needs to be replaced...
Why do they need to be replaced??? All they are doing is getting their backs equal touches and are in return keeping them fresh and Davis wont wear down as fast. Plus Hollings is the big play back with his speed, by giving him 10-15 touches a game you are giving your team a threat that can break off a 60 yard TD...
__________________

'Anyone ready to go outside so I can make you look bad?' - Matt Schaub talking to the DBs
Fiddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004   #23
aj.
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,769
Rep Power: 658 aj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

You mean on that one touch where he goes for 60 while the other 14 he goes for minus 2?

DD is the better back right now. Better vision, better cutback ability, better in all aspects except for straight away speed. He needs to get the majority of the carries.
aj. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004   #24
Fiddy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston/Austin
Age: 26
Posts: 4,314
Rep Power: 18 Fiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVP
Send a message via AIM to Fiddy Send a message via MSN to Fiddy Send a message via Yahoo to Fiddy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj.
You mean on that one touch where he goes for 60 while the other 14 he goes for minus 2?

DD is the better back right now. Better vision, better cutback ability, better in all aspects except for straight away speed. He needs to get the majority of the carries.
the line just has to give him some blocks and Hollings will be fine.

I wont agure that DD is the better back right now because I cant, but the key word is 'right now' and you have to let Hollings get his touches so you can see how he develops and if one day he can be a better back then Davis...
__________________

'Anyone ready to go outside so I can make you look bad?' - Matt Schaub talking to the DBs
Fiddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004   #25
aj.
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,769
Rep Power: 658 aj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Touches -smutches. This isn't the NBA. The Texans aren't playing games to get players their touches. Especially backups. What's next, "practice?"

Hollings will see plenty of action but he's not going to 50-50 split carries with DD this year as long as DD is healthy. I see a 2/3 - 1/3 split if everyone is healthy.

Last edited by aj.; 08-23-2004 at 09:18 PM.
aj. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004   #26
MIGHTYTEX
Veteran
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: York, PA
Age: 34
Posts: 158
Rep Power: 11 MIGHTYTEX is ridin' the pine
Default

I haven't been impressed with Tony so far. Week one was fumbling problems and week two the O-line couldn't open a hole but yet when they did he didn't hit them hard to break through to the secondary. I've always questioned his ablity and so far he hasn't shown me anything special.
MIGHTYTEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004   #27
El Tejano
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 9,811
Rep Power: 10969 El Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respectedEl Tejano is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Now I am going to have to duck after I say this, but I wouldn't be suprised if Wells emerges to second string. The only thing I really see that holds him back from all that is just his past reputation. But really what good was it to let go of Mack? Hollings hasn't really moved the ball and keeps fumbling. He is just a smaller Mack (Mackito). Here's hopin Davis stays healthy.
El Tejano is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 08-23-2004   #28
Fiddy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston/Austin
Age: 26
Posts: 4,314
Rep Power: 18 Fiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVP
Send a message via AIM to Fiddy Send a message via MSN to Fiddy Send a message via Yahoo to Fiddy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj.
Touches -smutches. This isn't the NBA. The Texans aren't playing games to get players their touches. Especially backups. What's next, "practice?"
the Texans are still trying to figure out EXCATLY what they have with Hollings so you do need to give him touches in real game situations...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIGHTYTEX
. . .week two the O-line couldn't open a hole but yet when they did he didn't hit them hard to break through to the secondary. . .
Name one play that the oline opened up a hole. And if there was, tell me what the backside blocking did because there were a couple of holes but by the time Hollings got the ball there was already someone in the backfield who came from the backside...
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIGHTYTEX
I've always questioned his ablity and so far he hasn't shown me anything special
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Tejano
Hollings hasn't really moved the ball and keeps fumbling
How soon we forget the Dallas game. Even with the fumbles, Hollings proved that he could run and move the ball effectivley and remember that the defense he was running through was the 1st ranked defense from a year ago...
__________________

'Anyone ready to go outside so I can make you look bad?' - Matt Schaub talking to the DBs
Fiddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004   #29
edo783
Site Contributor
 
edo783's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston, again.
Posts: 7,706
Rep Power: 4641 edo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respectededo783 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Interesting that you mention that ET, I was wondering the same thing. If Hollings doesn't show some real improvement by the season and Wells keeps going well, then Tony could be looking at 3rd back type of reps. I am certainly NOT a Wells fan, but who gets the job done is who you need to use.
__________________


De Oppresso Liber
edo783 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004   #30
swisher
Old School
 
swisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Atascocita
Age: 38
Posts: 1,615
Rep Power: 669 swisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respectedswisher is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Fiddy, are you related to Tony Hollings?

Just kidding.
swisher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004   #31
aj.
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,769
Rep Power: 658 aj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
the Texans are still trying to figure out EXCATLY what they have with Hollings so you do need to give him touches in real game situations
And they will. About 1/3 of them if DD stays healthy. That's enough to reduce wear and tear on DD and figure out exactly what they have with Hollings.
aj. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004   #32
Fiddy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston/Austin
Age: 26
Posts: 4,314
Rep Power: 18 Fiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVP
Send a message via AIM to Fiddy Send a message via MSN to Fiddy Send a message via Yahoo to Fiddy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swisher
Fiddy, are you related to Tony Hollings?

Just kidding.
We have guys sticking up for Wells, someone has to stick up for Hollings...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aj.
And they will. About 1/3 of them if DD stays healthy. That's enough to reduce wear and tear on DD and figure out exactly what they have with Hollings.
Okay, I get it...
__________________

'Anyone ready to go outside so I can make you look bad?' - Matt Schaub talking to the DBs
Fiddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-23-2004   #33
DominatorDavis
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Raleigh NC
Posts: 160
Rep Power: 11 DominatorDavis is ridin' the pine
Default

from Fiddy ...so that means the Texans have already seen something in Hollings to state that he would carry half the load so there was no reason to play him....



I disagree. There was a major reason to continue to play him. Who do they put in there? Split time between two guys who just showed up for practice last week? Its very dangerous to do that. I think that they were keeping Hollings in there two fold: 1) further evaluation of Hollings to see if he can endure a 20 carry game - which he did and 2) quite simply there was no other alternative. It was an act of necessity. I believe that the conservative play was engineered to keep Hollings from injury. Not to take it out on the field and just dominate guys.

There is no doubt that the Texans see something in Hollings. We all do. For those of you who are Hollings bashers I really do feel for you. This guy is special and we are lucky to have him on our team.

More so then that I think that Cower wanted to lay it thick this game since we embarrassed him in 02 with only 47 yards in offense. Its ok though - our guys will not go into the season with malaise and puffed ego's. Cower wanted to show that 02 was just a fluke and that by giving us a good drubbing in the pre-season he has somehow undone all of that which has hurt his own sense of respectability. An expansion team beat him. That is a seasoned coaches worst nightmare.

I personally do not like Cower. I think that he is a spineless back stabbing ego-maniac. More so then that, most former players feel the same.

Lastly, is really sucks that Anderson got hurt. I really liked that guy.

Last edited by DominatorDavis; 08-23-2004 at 11:00 PM.
DominatorDavis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2004   #34
Ediddy73
Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 40
Posts: 213
Rep Power: 11 Ediddy73 is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DominatorDavis
There is no doubt that the Texans see something in Hollings. We all do. For those of you who are Hollings bashers I really do feel for you. This guy is special and we are lucky to have him on our team..
Let me tell you what I see in Hollings. I see an extremely average back with poor anticipation and field vision who is going to make about $111,000 more than DD this year, and even more next year to try to LEARN how to be a RB!! Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? Hollings is barely a college RB in terms of experience. WE don't all see something in Hollings, other than he is really good at running 2 yards and leaning on a defender, or he can't hold onto the ball. If he was a 4th rounder, okay, but he's not. He will forever be linked to the 33rd overall pick in the 2004 draft, and he has not as of yet show me one damn thing that says he's a first day pick, let alone #33 overall. Stop your self now, I know at the time the Radiers were coming off a Super Bowl year, and no one saw 4-12 coming, but I'll go one further. Hollings has shown nothing to prove that he is worth the 64th over all pick. Sorry Fiddy, I know he's kinfolk and all, but he is under-whelming for the money. He should have gone to NFL Europe this year, but he is recovering from knee surgery, strike 2 IMO.
__________________
Support the Troops, Oppose the Policy
Ediddy73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2004   #35
TheOgre
Hall of Fame
 
TheOgre's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Back in the cellar again
Posts: 3,739
Rep Power: 17 TheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVPTheOgre was voted MVP
Default

For all intensive purposes this is Hollings rookie year. Last year he had no speed, which is definitely his biggest attribute. He was 9 months removed from his surgery in preseason last year. Think about that.

E. James and Jamal Lewis looked bad the season they each came back from surgery. Willis MacGahee got injured 2 months after Hollings and is just to contribute for the Bills. Show some patience man. This instance everything, remote control, cell phone, Xbox/PS2 generation seems to have about as much patience as a cat sprayed with water.
TheOgre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2004   #36
Lucky
Moderator
 
Lucky's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 13,042
Rep Power: 132950 Lucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respectedLucky is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ediddy73
He should have gone to NFL Europe this year, but he is recovering from knee surgery, strike 2 IMO.
I think Tony was better off in the Texan weight room and the coaching sessions.

Look the draft pick is spent. No reason to dwell on that unless this current organization fails to turn the Texans into contenders. If the Texans miss on a 2nd round pick, they'll join the list of other teams that have missed on 2nd round picks. Which includes the other 31 teams in the NFL. The draft is a black art, not a science. That's how the Texans can hit on a 4th round pick like Davis. A solid organization's hits & misses will balance out in the end.

I'm not convinced that Hollings won't be a good NFL player. I see a lot of Charlie Garner in his game. But maybe I can't see that the emperor isn't wearing a cup. The overwhelming majority of NFL players have to learn the NFL game before becoming productive. I just don't think the verdict is in on Hollings.
Lucky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2004   #37
NoBullTexan
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Jersey Village
Age: 77
Posts: 225
Rep Power: 11 NoBullTexan is ridin' the pine
Default

Its much easier, ( assuming you have the innate ability), to be a RB becasue it is mostly all in the instincts and vision to see the field. So it doesn't necessarily mean that you have to have all the experience in the world to be a RB. The fumbling in the Dallas game worried me more than how much more he is making than DD. He did better at least in that respect in the P-ugh game, and it truly wasn't all his fault that the O-line weren't doing their jobs. In so far as DD is concerned, believe me, he will more than make up for the difference in salary when his contract comes up again. So whats to worry?
__________________
NoBullTexan
NoBullTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2004   #38
TexanExile
Square 1 again
 
TexanExile's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Singapore
Age: 43
Posts: 1,600
Rep Power: 3475 TexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respectedTexanExile is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

I was down on Hollings after the game last weekend because he was terrible in that particular game. He was and there's no way around that. Not every NFL RB gets to run behind a good offensive line, and they have to make some of their own opportunities when they're not getting much help up front.

BUT--after watching the tape, I definitely agree with aj that Todd Wade got repeatedly crushed by the Pittsburgh d-line. On the other end, Wand was missing assignments and not doing a lot to give the QBs time. Hollings definitely did not get much daylight on the line. I don't think any of our backs would've fared too much better. So I'm trying to be "fair and balanced" on my criticism of Hollings' performance...
TexanExile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2004   #39
BuffSoldier
Hall of Fame
 
BuffSoldier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Tha South Side of Screwston, Texas
Age: 26
Posts: 1,929
Rep Power: 12 BuffSoldier is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiddy
How soon we forget the Dallas game. Even with the fumbles, Hollings proved that he could run and move the ball effectivley and remember that the defense he was running through was the 1st ranked defense from a year ago...
Wow, averaging 3.8 yards per carry, fumbling 3 times and haveing a long run of 14 yards sure was stickin it to 'em. Hollings had an OK game, but I really wouldnt say he was that empressive, I would say most of his success came to the great blocking that the o-line was giving him, they wore out that dallas front 4.

And why would you mention having an average game in the 1st pre seaseon game. Its not like he was amazing. If anything I think he was the 2nd worst out of all the best. Dunta, basically shut down Keyshawn Johnson, Carr completed 6 of 7 passes, the whole defensive front 7 was a monster, the o-line played great, the only person Hollings beat out in that game was Babin , though Babin had a sack and a forced fumble.


Oh, and why is everyone so hung up on Hollings speed? Is that the only thing he can do, run fast? Hes shown no cutback skills, vision, no tackle breaking ablility, and mediocer hands. All that I know he can do is run fast, if thats all you need, why dont we sign Maurice Green after the Olympics and put him in the backfield, Im sure hes much faster than Hollings.
__________________
Pressure bust a pipe.
BuffSoldier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2004   #40
Fiddy
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Houston/Austin
Age: 26
Posts: 4,314
Rep Power: 18 Fiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVPFiddy was voted MVP
Send a message via AIM to Fiddy Send a message via MSN to Fiddy Send a message via Yahoo to Fiddy
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuffSoldier
Wow, averaging 3.8 yards per carry, fumbling 3 times and haveing a long run of 14 yards sure was stickin it to 'em.
Look deeper into the stats Buff:

1-10-HOU23 (11:26) T.Hollings right end to HST 22 for -1 yards (D.Nguyen, T.Newman).
2-11-HOU22 (10:47) T.Hollings left guard pushed ob at HST 36 for 14 yards (R.Williams).
1-10-DAL37 (9:37) T.Hollings left guard to DAL 32 for 5 yards (G.Ellis, D.Coakley).
2-9-DAL24 (7:46) T.Hollings left guard to DAL 23 for 1 yard (J.Brooks).
1-10-HOU25 (4:08) T.Hollings up the middle to HST 27 for 2 yards (M.Wiley).
2-8-HOU27 (3:31) T.Hollings right tackle to HST 31 for 4 yards (L.Glover).
2-9-HOU42 (1:16) D.Carr pass to T.Hollings to DAL 23 for 35 yards (P.Hunter). FUMBLES (P.Hunter), recovered by HST-M.Bruener at DAL 27. M.Bruener to DAL 27 for no gain (D.Coakley).
1-10-DAL18 (:00) T.Hollings left end to DAL 12 for 6 yards (P.Hunter).
1-10-DAL17 (12:35) T.Hollings left end ran ob at DAL 6 for 11 yards (T.Dixon).
1-6-DAL6 (12:06) T.Hollings left end to DAL 6 for no gain (L.Glover).
2-6-DAL4 (11:21) T.Banks FUMBLES (Aborted) at DAL 6, recovered by HST-T.Hollings at DAL 4. T.Hollings to DAL 4 for no gain (L.Glover).
1-10-HOU11 (6:22) T.Hollings left guard to HST 15 for 4 yards (B.James; K.O'Neil).
1-10-HOU26 (5:15) T.Hollings right end to HST 31 for 5 yards (K.Davis).
2-5-HOU31 (4:39) T.Hollings left end to HST 34 for 3 yards (S.Smith).
-----
3-3-DAL4 (3:39) T.Hollings up the middle to DAL 4 for no gain. FUMBLES, RECOVERED by DAL-D.Lee at DAL 4.
1-10-HOU34 (2:51) T.Hollings left end to HST 37 for 3 yards (Ja.Brooks).
2-7-HOU37 (2:08) T.Hollings right guard to HST 37 for no gain (R.Wingrove).


The dash is to seperate a 2 quarter rest

Not even I said that Hollings was a goaline back. If you take away his goaline carries and the 3 carries after an hour and a half on the sideline his 54 yards on 11 carries has a 4.9 ypc average. And please dont say "DD would have gotten it in from the 5 yards out" because I will have to remind you about the game against the Pats when we had the ball at the one and Davis couldnt punch it in from 1 yard out. And then you are going to say that the Pats had the best Defensive line in the league last year, the Cowboys arent a pushover on their Defensive line. And most importantly they are two different backs. And if you count the 3 carries after his one and a half hour on the sideline, the yards per carry goes to 4.1. And if you exclude the one from the 5 yard line again, the average is 4.4 ypc...

The coaches have to know that Hollings isnt going to be a back that can punch it in from within the 10 yard line when the defense can stack the line, he is a speed back that works well in space. 5 yard per carry average in the when he wasnt trying to run between the tackles to punch it in and didnt have to sit on the bench for 90 minutes??? Thats pretty good against a good Cowboy defense...

And dont forget the 30 yard screen play, he fumbled but the play was nice...
__________________

'Anyone ready to go outside so I can make you look bad?' - Matt Schaub talking to the DBs
Fiddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger