Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-07-2006   #1
phan1
All Pro
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 30
Posts: 650
Rep Power: 11 phan1 is ridin' the pine
Default Kubiak's future looks like it rests in the hands and shoulders of Carr.

Anything can happen in the NFL, but right now, it's hard to imagine Kubiak staying if Carr fails to perform up to his billing. It looks like the couple are going to ride the same boat, and it really looks like sink or swim for them. If you believe that Kubiak can get us to the promise land, than you've got to believe Carr can too and vice versa. I really don't think you can route for Kubiak yet expect a change in the QB situation, especially since Kubiak is supposed to be the guy that "knows QBs". Honestly, I would not want Kubiak to continue to be the head coach if Carr flops, because that's pretty much the most important thing he brings to the table. Time to cross your fingers folks! Go team Kubiak/Carr!

On a side note, Andy Ried is another head coach that "knows QBs" and I'd say he's a darn fine coach. Knowing QBs also makes him a really good Offensive Coordinator as well, which hopefully brings Kubiak the same success. Of course you also had Norv Turner trying to be a head coach and we know how that all went...
phan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #2
FirstTexansFan
The Unknown Fan
 
FirstTexansFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: New Braunfels, Tx.
Age: 56
Posts: 2,315
Rep Power: 30093 FirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respectedFirstTexansFan is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via MSN to FirstTexansFan
Default

There are easier ways to make yourself miserable. Contemplating the next firing of a head coach shouldn't be at the top of your list. Wishful thinking on your part perhaps?
__________________
Dread-Head's #1 Fan, Because He Hates The Cowboys As Much As Me!
FirstTexansFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #3
OzzO
.. and then?
 
OzzO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: northside
Posts: 7,133
Rep Power: 65244 OzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respectedOzzO is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to OzzO
Default

Eh, I would say his future rests more on how well the entire team does and if it shows "correct" improvement and gets the fans excited again. Carr is a part of that, but if he doesn't perform and the rest of the team does (which you kinda need to be clicking on all cylinders) then he'll be gone before Kubiak.
OzzO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #4
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
 
cuppacoffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 75
Posts: 4,813
Rep Power: 89864 cuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phan1
I really don't think you can route for Kubiak yet expect a change in the QB situation, especially since Kubiak is supposed to be the guy that "knows QBs".
I've read this a dozen times and I cannot decipher it.

Is it some sort of personal insight or just another form of Carr bashing?

Newsflash: The future of all coaches rests on the performance of their teams, not just the qb.


__________________
My true identity and my deepest freedom comes from Godís infinite love for me, not from what people think of me or say about me.

Last edited by cuppacoffee; 04-07-2006 at 09:20 AM.
cuppacoffee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #5
tsip
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,277
Rep Power: 13 tsip was voted MVPtsip was voted MVPtsip was voted MVP
Default

My concern with Kubiak's take on Carr is that there is no room for error in this situation. IMO, there are 3 things that can happen--(1) Carr is the answer, (2) Carr is not the answer, or (3) Carr gets injured. Two out of three are bad scenarios and--at least at this point-- there is no experienced back-up QB on the roster. For whatever reason, this team will not bring in a proven QB to push Carr for the starting position, so we are left in a very precarious dilema.

Obviously, the 'powers that be' are comfortable so they have only one stand--Carr will be the answer and will not get injured. I guess all we can do is sit back and watch and hope/pray they are correct. Does Kubiak's career in Houston rest on Carr's shoulders?..who knows, but IMO it's kinda like driving your vehicle without liability insurance...someone is gambling the team won't pay now or later.
tsip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #6
cuppacoffee
Resident Grouch
 
cuppacoffee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 75
Posts: 4,813
Rep Power: 89864 cuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respectedcuppacoffee is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsip
My concern with Kubiak's take on Carr is that there is no room for error in this situation. IMO, there are 3 things that can happen--(1) Carr is the answer, (2) Carr is not the answer, or (3) Carr gets injured. Two out of three are bad scenarios and--at least at this point-- there is no experienced back-up QB on the roster. For whatever reason, this team will not bring in a proven QB to push Carr for the starting position, so we are left in a very precarious dilema.

Obviously, the 'powers that be' are comfortable so they have only one stand--Carr will be the answer and will not get injured. I guess all we can do is sit back and watch and hope/pray they are correct. Does Kubiak's career in Houston rest on Carr's shoulders?..who knows, but IMO it's kinda like driving your vehicle without liability insurance...someone is gambling the team won't pay now or later.
Finally found something I can agree on with a tsip.

So far the Rosenfelds signing is the only question I have about our offseason acquisitions.

I am not in the camp that says that someone has to be here to push Carr. I don't recall anyone pushing Elway, P Manning, Farve, or even Aikman. Either you have "it" or you don't have it. I will defend Carr until he has a surrounding cast and proves once an for all that we need to make a change. That hasn't happened yet.

But as tsip mentions, I don't feel comfortable with Rosenfelds. I was holding out hope for Ragone, but I guess Kubiak doesn't have the hope for him that I do.

__________________
My true identity and my deepest freedom comes from Godís infinite love for me, not from what people think of me or say about me.
cuppacoffee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #7
Mike Kerns
LYSB Podcast
 
Mike Kerns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: West Houston
Section: My Living Room
Age: 36
Posts: 2,645
Rep Power: 1518 Mike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to Mike Kerns Send a message via Yahoo to Mike Kerns Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Kerns
Default

I am one of the biggest Carr supporters here. If he gets some time to throw the ball & make plays & he still doesn't perform, then I will go along with all this bashing. It's not like he has been Harrington, who had tons of weapons & time to throw the ball & just couldn't do it. Give him a chance.
Mike Kerns is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 04-07-2006   #8
Bobo
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Age: 62
Posts: 1,375
Rep Power: 0 Bobo does not work well with others
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by phan1
Anything can happen in the NFL, but right now, it's hard to imagine Kubiak staying if Carr fails to perform up to his billing. It looks like the couple are going to ride the same boat, and it really looks like sink or swim for them. If you believe that Kubiak can get us to the promise land, than you've got to believe Carr can too and vice versa. I really don't think you can route for Kubiak yet expect a change in the QB situation, especially since Kubiak is supposed to be the guy that "knows QBs". Honestly, I would not want Kubiak to continue to be the head coach if Carr flops, because that's pretty much the most important thing he brings to the table. Time to cross your fingers folks! Go team Kubiak/Carr!

On a side note, Andy Ried is another head coach that "knows QBs" and I'd say he's a darn fine coach. Knowing QBs also makes him a really good Offensive Coordinator as well, which hopefully brings Kubiak the same success. Of course you also had Norv Turner trying to be a head coach and we know how that all went...
More along the line of the offensive line -- and defense. Carr has already shown he can do the job in 2004.
Bobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #9
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 36,490
Rep Power: 326894 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default

If the QB doesn't do well, then the rest of the team won't do well. Even though Reggie Bush is supposed to be the next Barry Sanders, if teams can give minimal attention to the passing game, he'll have his work cut out for him. Kubiak's career in Houston, I don't particularly believe is married to Carr's future hear. Not yet anyway. If Carr struggles, and continues to show the problems that he has in the past, problems that you can't blame on the OLine, the running game, or the reciever talent, and Kubes still refuses to pull him...... then yeah, he'll go down with that ship.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tsip
My concern with Kubiak's take on Carr is that there is no room for error in this situation. IMO, there are 3 things that can happen--(1) Carr is the answer, (2) Carr is not the answer, or (3) Carr gets injured. Two out of three are bad scenarios and--at least at this point-- there is no experienced back-up QB on the roster. For whatever reason, this team will not bring in a proven QB to push Carr for the starting position, so we are left in a very precarious dilema.
I don't like this kind of thinking. I'd rather go with unknown backups hungry for a chance, than to have big name back-ups, that think they are good enough to start, and don't take any of the blame for their situation. Tommy Maddox, Charlie Batch, John Kitna to name a few. there are reasons these guys will be riding the bench next year, and IMHO, none of them have done anything to suggest other wise.

& I was a huge Kitna fan.

Dave Ragone has been a back up for 3 years now right?? Sage for 6...... we've got plenty of experienced back up QBs. From what I understand, Sage is the kinda guy that can come in off the bench, and actually do something. Will he be a starter?? who knows.......... but all the "experienced" guys out their have proven that they can't.

Now, I'd like for the Texans to draft Vince....... but that's only so he can "push" Carr by letting him know that 2006 will be a job Resume for him. If Kubiak really thinks David can be an Elite QB, then it makes no sense to Draft Vince.

I want an Elite QB, I think Vince can be Elite, I think Dave's shown that he can't. I understand you don't need to be Elite to win a Superbowl. I understand there are plenty of Elites past, present, and future that haven't/won't win a SuperBowl. So I can understand if GK passes on Vince.

But let's say you are a QB guy........ who do you draft?? An Elite RB?? or an Elite QB??
__________________
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #10
Mike Kerns
LYSB Podcast
 
Mike Kerns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: West Houston
Section: My Living Room
Age: 36
Posts: 2,645
Rep Power: 1518 Mike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respectedMike Kerns is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to Mike Kerns Send a message via Yahoo to Mike Kerns Send a message via Skype™ to Mike Kerns
Default

Quote:
But let's say you are a QB guy........ who do you draft?? An Elite RB?? or an Elite QB??
The elite RB. He helps make the QB an elite QB. See Drew Bress w/ Ladanian Tomlinson.
Mike Kerns is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #11
Bobo
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Age: 62
Posts: 1,375
Rep Power: 0 Bobo does not work well with others
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frak The Jags
The elite RB. He helps make the QB an elite QB. See Drew Bress w/ Ladanian Tomlinson.
RBs are a dime a dozen. If they weren't, then the Colts would have kept James. If you have a good line, you can stick anybody behind it and it will succeed. If anybody should know that, it should be Kubiak.
Bobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #12
bckey
Hall of Fame
 
bckey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 54
Posts: 2,332
Rep Power: 15763 bckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respectedbckey is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cuppacoffee
I am not in the camp that says that someone has to be here to push Carr. I don't recall anyone pushing Elway, P Manning, Farve, or even Aikman. Either you have "it" or you don't have it. I will defend Carr until he has a surrounding cast and proves once an for all that we need to make a change. That hasn't happened yet.

That is what we will find out this year. Either Carr has it or he doesn't. The surrounding cast is here and the right coach is here.
bckey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #13
Bobo
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Age: 62
Posts: 1,375
Rep Power: 0 Bobo does not work well with others
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bckey
That is what we will find out this year. Either Carr has it or he doesn't. The surrounding cast is here and the right coach is here.
I don't see any real change in the OL at this point. Flanagan is basically an old guy with just a year or two left who is pretty well beaten up. Besides him, the OL hasn't changed. Carr has already proven he can do the job -- something neither the OL nor Kubiak has yet to do.
Bobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #14
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 36,490
Rep Power: 326894 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default

If Jabar Gaffney leads Philly in recieving, if Milford Brown finishes the year starting for the Arizona Cardnals.... If our line at the end of the year is the same as it is now, we'll know we wasted another year trying to squeeze blood out of a turnip.
__________________
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #15
Bobo
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Age: 62
Posts: 1,375
Rep Power: 0 Bobo does not work well with others
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FirstTexansFan
There are easier ways to make yourself miserable. Contemplating the next firing of a head coach shouldn't be at the top of your list. Wishful thinking on your part perhaps?
Seeing that I didn't want Kubiak here in the first place, I contemplate it with relish.
Bobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #16
Trenches
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 171
Rep Power: 9 Trenches is ridin' the pine
Default

a good TEAM doesnt need the QB to be the savior. IF we had a good defense and could run the ball well, Carr could be a 'caretaker' type of QB and probably do fine. Unfortunately, the way this team is being set up, Carr is going to have to do WAY more than he should have to. You can keep on kidding yourself, but this defense is going to stop nobody. Its obvious we are trying to recreate the 'greatest show on turf'. Should have hired Martz if they were going to spend all their money of the offensive side of the ball. face it, they are trying to get people back to the stadium.
Trenches is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #17
SESupergenius
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

How many times does it have to be stated, our success hinders on the abilities of the defense. I am judging Kubiak and Co. more on how they are doing in the defensive department instead of the offensive one. switching to the 4-3 alone may cure this, but there are just so many issues with the defense that it would be hard to rectify in one off-season. If Carr flops, we go after another QB in a couple of years, but Kubiak will be safe for at least 3 years because Carr was not his pick. He may have had input in keeping him, but ultimately is was based on the ineptitude of the previous coaching and current GM staff.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #18
Bobo
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Age: 62
Posts: 1,375
Rep Power: 0 Bobo does not work well with others
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SESupergenius
How many times does it have to be stated, our success hinders on the abilities of the defense. I am judging Kubiak and Co. more on how they are doing in the defensive department instead of the offensive one. switching to the 4-3 alone may cure this, but there are just so many issues with the defense that it would be hard to rectify in one off-season. If Carr flops, we go after another QB in a couple of years, but Kubiak will be safe for at least 3 years because Carr was not his pick. He may have had input in keeping him, but ultimately is was based on the ineptitude of the previous coaching and current GM staff.
I think it's clear a team can win with a mediocre QB. Look at the Ravens for example. They won the SB with Dilfer at QB. Then they turned around and got rid of him -- and haven't returned to the SB since. SD made the SB with Stan Humphreys at QB. That's why I believe that Carr, being at least as good as Dilfer and Humphreys (probably somewhat better for that matter) is more than competent to ultimately get the job done. He proved that much in 2004. But you aren't getting the job done if you are on your back looking at the sky for most of the game.
Bobo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #19
CoastalTexan
Veteran
 
CoastalTexan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Houston
Posts: 461
Rep Power: 30 CoastalTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedCoastalTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedCoastalTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedCoastalTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedCoastalTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedCoastalTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedCoastalTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedCoastalTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedCoastalTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedCoastalTexan is a quality contributor and well respectedCoastalTexan is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via AIM to CoastalTexan
Default

Remember when Carr scored 24 points in one quarter against Arizona, calling his own plays Without D. Davis???? Then in the 2nd half Pendry took over and we had a field goal or something. I'd say dont bash Carr till he has a decent coach/line. I remember watching that quarter (something the ATX Vince Love crowd won't remember by the way) thinking dang, imagine if he did that the whole season.
CoastalTexan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2006   #20
phan1
All Pro
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 30
Posts: 650
Rep Power: 11 phan1 is ridin' the pine
Default

Just so you know guys I'm a total Carr supporter. Sorry if my post was overtly negative; it wasn't meant to be. I'm just saying that IMO, the success of Kubiak being our head coach has a whole lot to do with the success of David Carr because that is the #1 thing he brings to the table. Right now, he is mostly billed as the guy who is going to turn Carr around, turn our offense around, and help our offense win some games for once. I'm totally routing for Carr and Kubiak and hope that they can start winning some games.

But I'm also realistic. Carr hasn't been that great of a QB for us, and from history, it looks like he's becoming more of a "caretaker" than a bonefide playmaker. Right now, I think it's fair to say that he looks like a good version of Trent Dilfer. I'm really hoping Kubiak turns him into a playmaker, but the odds are probably 50/50 I think. We are definitely going to know what type of player he is after this upcoming season, cause all the excuses are going to end here. He now has the weapons; he has an average Oline if somebody is smart enough to put the right personel in. This is going to be Carr's guts or glory year IMO, and this really determines what direction our franchise is headed for the next 3-4 years.

Last edited by phan1; 04-07-2006 at 05:16 PM.
phan1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:10 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger