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Old 04-06-2006   #1
Frank_The_Tank
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Default Alex Smith Career Stats #1 Pick Last Year vs Vince Young Career Stats

O.K. They both played in Shotgun Based Offenses.

Alex Smith Career Totals
Games Played 25
RUSHING ATT 286 YRDS 1434 LOSS 362 NET 1072 TD 15 AVG 3.75
PASSING ATT 587 COMP 389 YRDS 5203 TD 47 INT 8
Two Point Conv 1
Receiving NO 3 YDS 38 TD 0
CAREER TOTAL TD 62 POINTS 372
National Championships 0


http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDet...=732&player=11

Vince Young Career Totals
Games Played 37
RUSHING ATT 457 YRDS 3448 LOSS 321 NET 3127 TD 37 AVG 6.84
PASSING ATT 718 COMP 444 YRDS 6040 TD 44 INT 28
Two Point Conv 2
Receiving NO 1 YDS 48 TD 0
CAREER TOTAL TD 81 POINTS 488
National Championships 1

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDet...=703&player=10
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Old 04-06-2006   #2
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Alex Smith #1 overall and was taken over Cadillac Williams, and Ronnie Brown both who were just as good if not better than Reggie Bush, and Alex Smith played in a very weak Conference! He was drafted by a Team in dire need of a QB because the one they had was terrible, kinda sounds familiar, and he had to sit out most of the year last year and learn while the 49ers continued to stink and they tried to force him out their and it backfired. He only had one TD as a rookie, and it was against the Texans LOL! Young is way better than Smith and he still does not get the props.

Last edited by Frank_The_Tank; 04-06-2006 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 04-06-2006   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDave350
Vince Young Career Totals
Games Played 37
RUSHING ATT 457 YRDS 3448 LOSS 321 NET 3127 TD 37 AVG 6.84
PASSING ATT 718 COMP 444 YRDS 6040 TD 44 INT 28
Two Point Conv 2
Receiving NO 1 YDS 48 TD 0
CAREER TOTAL TD 81 POINTS 488
National Championships 1

http://web1.ncaa.org/d1mfb/playerDet...=703&player=10
VY accounted for 81 touchdowns in his college career? Am I crazy, or is that a lot of touchdowns?
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Old 04-06-2006   #4
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The INT ratio is interesting, but I always remember vince throwin alot of them.
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Old 04-06-2006   #5
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BigDave, nor Ronnie Brown, Caddilac, or Ced Benson is the kind of prospect Reggie Bush is.

Think of it this way since u will never be in the Bush Bandwagon.(even though u will be once he gets drafted by the Texans)

Leinert was considered better than Alex Smith last year and better than VY this year, but Bush is considered a better prospect than Leinert. Therefore

Bush > Leinert > VINCE YOUNG > Alex SMith
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Old 04-06-2006   #6
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Wait a second. Alex Smith and Vince Young ran similar offenses. Alex Smith put up 1 passing touchdown. And you want Young why? Ok, he is better than Smith, but even the devilish Carr put up like 9. And that was on an expansion team with cottage cheese for a line. These arguments are getting weaker and weaker.
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Old 04-06-2006   #7
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I agree....... this is a poor argument, and never really should have been brought up.

I kinda see where BigDave350 is headed, but AlexSmith is soooo bad, there are too many angles that can be turned against the Draft Vince Young argument.

The 49ers drafted him #1 overall, because he was the best of a poor lot of players(relatively speaking) much the same way David Carr was.

Cadillac & Ronnie Brown shared the ball in college, so it was looked at as a negative last year....... definitely not the kind of player you'd want to take with the #1 overall........ But, I guess because of thier success in '05, it has turned into a plus for Reggie, much like Vick's struggles in Atlanta have turned into negatives for Vince.

In the case of the 49ers, they couldn't get out of that spot, and had to do something. Looking back, is a bit easier to figure out what they should've done.
But the 49ers have been making bad decessions almost 10 years running now. Even though everyone wants to blame Terrell for their problems, it goes much deeper than that.......... he was just their scapegoat.
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Old 04-06-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss
The 49ers drafted him #1 overall, because he was the best of a poor lot of players(relatively speaking) much the same way David Carr was.
No, the 49ers were reaching for a QB in a weak class. Carr was a legit top pick. I can't remember any football expert at that time say Carr was a reach (though Kiper & Ourlads had Harrington higher).

The Texans were drafting a young QB and putting him behind a vet offensive line. The problem was that line never materialized. That's when the troubles began as Casserly & Capers tried to piece together a front wall made of scraps. Knowing now how that scenario would play out, of course it was a bad choice to take a QB #1. But no one had that foresight, and the selection of David Carr as the first pick was never questioned.

And you're right, Alex Smith is a really bad example to bring up to justify Vince Young as the 1st pick in the draft. But I wouldn't give up on Smith, he still has talent. Alex Smith is, however, an excellent example to illustrate that Young should not play in his rookie season.
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Old 04-06-2006   #9
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If Smith came out in this draft he would be the 4th best QB on the board. Bad comparison. He was taken on his upside potential, and in this draft he would lose that battle to VY.
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Old 04-06-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDave350
Alex Smith #1 overall and was taken over Cadillac Williams, and Ronnie Brown both who were just as good if not better than Reggie Bush...
Stop it. You're killing me.
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Old 04-06-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDave350
Alex Smith #1 overall and was taken over Cadillac Williams, and Ronnie Brown both who were just as good if not better than Reggie Bush
Reggie Bush is the next Gale Sayers. I didn't hear anything like that about Cadillac and Ronnie. Reggie was a better college player, but I'm not going to jump ahead and say he will be a better NFL player.
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Old 04-06-2006   #12
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If you want to talk about a prototypical back for the incoming offense, then Ronnie Brown is definetely that type of runner. He's like Mike Anderson between the tackles with the speed to pull away from most LBs and safeties, and has enough strength to drag cornerbacks and push the pile. He has good hands out the backfield, can block, and play in short yardage. If Ronnie were in this year's draft and the Texans had to take a running back, I would hope they trade out of the top spot, accumulate an extra pick, and bring in Brown. I don't see how anybody could see that as a crazy idea.

He might not ever been sent to run 40 yards downfield and catch passes in college, but IMO, that's what receviers are for, and I don't think Bush will be utilized in that aspect as much as people believe...
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Old 04-06-2006   #13
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This is a good comparison, Young is much more poslished passer his Snr Season than Alex Smith and Alex was a shotgun throw every play QB, Vince Could hang with the guy as a passer. You Bush Homers scream and cry "Its not fair you can't compare Bush and Young as rushers " because the stats and film show that Vince is a better runner than Reggie Bush. Well I now compare him to the #1 last year. Its funny with you guys, you say Bush this Bush that, Vince blows his stats away, you say Cad. Williams, Ronnie Brown, Bush is better, dude, have you forgotten why most people feel that the USC being crowned Nat Champs is bogus, its because of Aurburn... You guys should get off your knee's for long enough to grasp reality.
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Old 04-06-2006   #14
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Oh and after looking at the Pro Day, Vince is way better, and way more accurate than Matt Leinart. In three years we'll see which of the three QB's in this years draft are in the playoffs and who are riding pine. We wont have to worry about Reggie in three years because he is going to be injured so often that his name will be a ancient memory.
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Old 04-06-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDave350
You guys should get off your knee's for long enough to grasp reality.
Apperantly we need to grasp the reality were Ryan Leaf was drafted ahead of Payton Manning also.

Smith and Young ran very similar offenses in college, the difference was (and i doubt anybody will dispute this) is that VY is a better athlete then Smith. And VY had more plays called for him to run then Smith ever did. Add to that the VY played with alot more talent (by several orders of magnitude) then Utah could ever dream of putting on the feild. Comparing VY to last years Qb class is weak, cause last years QB class sucked...bad; if VY's numbers weren't better then that poor group of QBs he'd likely be a 2nd round pick not a top 10.
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Old 04-06-2006   #16
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Ever thought the reason Vy has better stats is because Texas focused the offense around him. He was pretty much all they had. USC had to share the ball around many other talented athletes.

Now, why haven't I seen a comparison between Leinart and Young yet based on just the passing stats? Since passing is what he will have to do majority of the time in the NFL anyways.
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Old 04-06-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSig44
Ever thought the reason Vy has better stats is because Texas focused the offense around him. He was pretty much all they had. USC had to share the ball around many other talented athletes.
And Vince still won the national championship, beating the reigning national champions. This should really say a lot about Vince Young.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KSig44
Now, why haven't I seen a comparison between Leinart and Young yet based on just the passing stats? Since passing is what he will have to do majority of the time in the NFL anyways.
I've done it before, and Vince beats him.
1) Fact- Vince didn't play 4 full quarters.... Vince sat after he blew out the opposing D.
2) Matt had more attempts than Vince
3) Vince had a higher effeciency rating.
4) extrapolate Vince's passing yards by multiplying Vince's YPA by the extra number of attempts Matt had, and Vince beats him..... by 200/300 yards if I remember right..

But no one wants to hear that....... that kind of stuff gets swept under the rug...."of Course Vince had better passing stats..... it was a simplified offense".... or something similar.

So........ Vince is a better runner than the best RB in the draft...... Vince is a better passer than the best QB in the draft.........
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Old 04-06-2006   #18
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No one mentions the fact that VY started 7 of 12 games as a RS Frosh...so his stats are a bit fattened by that, Smith only played two seasons.

My biggest concerns about VY are not his strengths, but his weaknesses:

Quote:
His mechanics need a lot of improving. Shows a low release point and, for the most part, shot-puts the ball as a passer. A better runner than passer at this point. Does not show a good comprehension of reading defenses and making progression reads. Is extremely raw as pocket passer and will need a lot of developmental tutelage in that area in the NFL. Most of his experience has been as a shotgun quarterback in a "read-option" system. Still lacks ideal decision-making skills. Shows adequate-to-good, but not great arm strength. Tries to force things when they are not available. Must learn to better protect the football. Takes too many chances when protection is breaking down and throws too many passes up for grabs. Is impatient in the pocket. Frequently takes off too early and does not allow his receivers enough time to separate. There is also concern regarding his mental capacity due to his marginal score on the Wonderlic Test.
Sounds like too much of a project. Raw talent can only carry you so far. Hell Vick was a better QB and had the smarts & QB IQ to make it work in the NFL......the same is not said about VY.
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Old 04-06-2006   #19
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The UT National Championship says more for the UT as a team than it does just for VY. Without that defense, they would have lost it easy.

Also, you disregard the previous two years with USC winning the NC. Sure UT beat them head to head, but I think it was more because of the defenses (a top 5 vs. a 50 something) than it was one player. VY's numbers made up for the lack of overall playmakers on offense that USC did have and Texas didn't.
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Old 04-06-2006   #20
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Career points is a stupid way to calculate the worth of a player. Why not look at the stats that go into a QB rating??
Smith: PASSING ATT 587 COMP 389 YRDS 5203 TD 47 INT 8
Smiths Rating:
Percent Completion: 66.27%
YPA: 8.86
TD/Int Ratio: 5.88
Rating: 115.2

Young: PASSING ATT 718 COMP 444 YRDS 6040 TD 44 INT 28
Percent Completion: 61.84%
YPA: 8.41
TD/Int Ratio: 1.57
Rating: 92.84

So if you look at it reasonably, as a passer, VY was SIGNIFICANTLY POORER than A. Smith. A Smith had higher Completion percentages, higher Yards Per Attempt, and a MUCH higher TD/INT ratio as well as QB RATING (calculated using http://www.brucey.net/nflab/statistics/qb_rating.html) And guess what? Because he played in the same style of offense as VY, his SUCKING in the NFL means VY will probably be EVEN WORSE. So whats the point of your argument again?
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