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Old 04-03-2006   #1
wrestler4life
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Default Who doesn't want Bush now?

After running a 4.33, verting over 40" and benching 225- 24 times, what is he going to have to do for the Vince lovers to realize that Bush is the best thing for the Texans?
DRAFT BUSH NOW!!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-03-2006   #2
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Originally Posted by wrestler4life
After running a 4.33, verting over 40" and benching 225- 24 times, what is he going to have to do for the Vince lovers to realize that Bush is the best thing for the Texans?
DRAFT BUSH NOW!!!!!!!!!
Its never been about not wanting Bush, it's more about not wanting David Carr (your other boy from California). At least from my perspective that is.
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Old 04-03-2006   #3
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His strength is a definite bonus. Oh and he officially weighed in at 202 pounds. I loved the quote that when he took off his shirt, some people thought he was wearing body armor. hahaha he'll just explode into defenders
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Old 04-03-2006   #4
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Originally Posted by kbourda
Its never been about not wanting Bush, it's more about not wanting David Carr (your other boy from California). At least from my perspective that is.

and let's not forget it's also about wanting Vince Young (your boy from Houston) .... and as you and I both know, perspective is a very important thing ...
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Old 04-03-2006   #5
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I'll say it - I'd still rather have Vince Young.

Given that Kubiak is bringing in (warning: oversimplification) a "plug and play" system for running backs, I'm just not going to put that high of a premium on a running back. I do, however, put a high premium on quarterbacks who are outstanding leaders. I don't want a quarterback who is skilled at not getting in the way of the rest of the team's success. I want one who leads in creating that success.

I don't share the oft-expressed feeling that the Texans just need 21 All Pros on the field to make David Carr successful. I realize that's an exaggeration, but I see opinions expressed here that just about reflect that level of non-realism.

I have nothing against Bush. He looks like a great prospect, and I'll cheer for him to make big plays when he's in a Texans jersey next fall.

I'd prefer Vince Young. It's not like this is the first time the Texans have picked someone other than who I wanted at a given spot.

It happens.
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Old 04-03-2006   #6
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These numbers are fairly irrelevant. I happen to be one of the few, apparently, that sees value in both picks. I do think the safer bet is to stick with Carr and draft Bush. But I also strongly believe that in the next 10 years Vince Young will lead an NFL team to at least one Super Bowl. I can't say the same for my confidence in Reggie, Matt Leinart or even David Carr. But if the goal is to improve this team immediately - you have to pick Bush.
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Old 04-03-2006   #7
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Originally Posted by Tulip
I don't share the oft-expressed feeling that the Texans just need 21 All Pros on the field to make David Carr successful. I realize that's an exaggeration, but I see opinions expressed here that just about reflect that level of non-realism.
You must be reading my mind. One of the most brilliant posts made.
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Old 04-03-2006   #8
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"These numbers are fairly irrelevant. I happen to be one of the few, apparently, that sees value in both picks. I do think the safer bet is to stick with Carr and draft Bush. But I also strongly believe that in the next 10 years Vince Young will lead an NFL team to at least one Super Bowl. I can't say the same for my confidence in Reggie, Matt Leinart or even David Carr. But if the goal is to improve this team immediately - you have to pick Bush."

true. everyone in the nfl and college has similar numbers

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Old 04-03-2006   #9
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Originally Posted by Tulip
I'll say it - I'd still rather have Vince Young.

Given that Kubiak is bringing in (warning: oversimplification) a "plug and play" system for running backs, I'm just not going to put that high of a premium on a running back. I do, however, put a high premium on quarterbacks who are outstanding leaders. I don't want a quarterback who is skilled at not getting in the way of the rest of the team's success. I want one who leads in creating that success.

I don't share the oft-expressed feeling that the Texans just need 21 All Pros on the field to make David Carr successful. I realize that's an exaggeration, but I see opinions expressed here that just about reflect that level of non-realism.

I have nothing against Bush. He looks like a great prospect, and I'll cheer for him to make big plays when he's in a Texans jersey next fall.

I'd prefer Vince Young. It's not like this is the first time the Texans have picked someone other than who I wanted at a given spot.

It happens.
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Old 04-03-2006   #10
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Obviously this thread was made for me, so i'll bite.

I dont want reggie bush now. Didnt want him during the whole "bush bowl" fiasco, didnt want him pre rose bowl, dont want him post rosebowl. Reasonable men can agree to differ, and I want Vince. You don't know whats best for the Texans. Neither do i.You know why? Because you dont know ANYTHING that these prospects are going to do in the NFL. No clue. We can speculate, but here is my question to all of the people who think Vince Young would be such a horrible pick.

If Vince Young was really such a horrible player, and if he really was just a "homer" pick, then why do most mock drafts have him going anywhere from 1-10 in the nfl draft? Obviously people believe he can be successfull in the nfl. Also, people routinely say he will have to sit for 2-3 years. You dont know that...what if there is an injury to Carr and he is pressed into service immediately? More so than that, what if he has a rothlisberger-esque first season, and goes 14-0 as a starter? what then.....rookie QB's can suceed. Vince could suceed in Houston

My final point. We dont NEED reggie bush. Nobody can say that he is a need based pick. So saying we dont need vince young isnt a good counter arguement. We dont NEED either of them. Its a luxury pick. Then it comes down to who you think is better. Some think Vince, some think Bush. It doesnt matter which conviction you have, just dont bash others for having it.
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Old 04-03-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulip
I'll say it - I'd still rather have Vince Young.

Given that Kubiak is bringing in (warning: oversimplification) a "plug and play" system for running backs, I'm just not going to put that high of a premium on a running back. I do, however, put a high premium on quarterbacks who are outstanding leaders. I don't want a quarterback who is skilled at not getting in the way of the rest of the team's success. I want one who leads in creating that success.

I don't share the oft-expressed feeling that the Texans just need 21 All Pros on the field to make David Carr successful. I realize that's an exaggeration, but I see opinions expressed here that just about reflect that level of non-realism.

I have nothing against Bush. He looks like a great prospect, and I'll cheer for him to make big plays when he's in a Texans jersey next fall.

I'd prefer Vince Young. It's not like this is the first time the Texans have picked someone other than who I wanted at a given spot.

It happens.
I can't give you any more rep points...... says I've got to spread them around. But I believe this is a very good post.

This "hypocrisy" has been around long before Vince declared himself eligible for the draft. When a team goes 2-14, then get's all giddy about drafting a running back, when the running game is the only good thing you've got going for you...... they gripe & whine about our QB not getting enough time to do what he needs to do, so to help, they want to draft a running back. Then blame the F.O. for not doing what they promised to do.

Yet, talk about drafting a QB........ and it doesn't make sense. We already have a #1 pick at QB...

History shows running backs get hurt early in their careers...... Ours has put up some very nice stats despite the injuries...... but he's "injury prone"

The offensive line has been tweaked, rearranged, shuffled, and what not. we've added players, we've removed players. Every year, something is done to the offensive line.......... but just try to say that our QB is "sack prone"

but to answer your question...... I want Bush on our team. I think we'd have a real offensive powerhouse. But not at the expense of Vince Young. I'm in this for the long haul, and I think Vince will improve our team more, over the long term.

Matt........ He was probably the best QB in the draft before Vince declared. He may have been a legit #1 last year, or the year before..... most likely in 2002. But IMHO, anyone who drafts Matt while Vince is on the board may be looking for a job in the not to distant future. Yeah, thinking like that may be exactly why I'm not a pro NFL scout................. what's your excuse??

Edit:My rant about hypocrisy is in response to a few posts that do not appear to be here anymore.
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Old 04-03-2006   #12
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Default Now that both UT and USC have had their pro-days, what will the Texans do at #1?

NO is looking to trade down.
All the press points to RB.
Whether or not I like it, thats what we're doing I'm almost positive.
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Old 04-03-2006   #13
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Bob Allen and John McClain have already said that the Texans WILL be drafting Reggie Bush. Unless some other team grossly overpays for the #1 pick I think this debate is over.
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Old 04-03-2006   #14
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I think we are going to pick Bush and I will be happy with that -- he is an elite player. If the Texans decide to go with VY i'll be happy as well, because clearly the staff will have seen something that many are missing. More than likely drafting VY would indicate Carr is a bigger liability than the Texans have let on.

I won't be happy if we trade down -- the #1pick this year is a rare opportunity to have one of two elite players in the draft. I understand the logic of trading down, but the gambler in me wants to take a shot at one of the big names.
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Old 04-03-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss
I can't give you any more rep points...... says I've got to spread them around. But I believe this is a very good post.

This "hypocrisy" has been around long before Vince declared himself eligible for the draft. When a team goes 2-14, then get's all giddy about drafting a running back, when the running game is the only good thing you've got going for you...... they gripe & whine about our QB not getting enough time to do what he needs to do, so to help, they want to draft a running back. Then blame the F.O. for not doing what they promised to do.
TK this is a straight forward response not a RB post. However it does involve him. At USC they ran a form of the Zone Blocking Scheme, which helps him in this offense,also it has been said that he is very good at picking up the blitz,and blocking them out. That has been a weakness in every running back that we have.I am a RB supporter but in no way would I be depressed if we got VY. I think in the running back department if the FO goes that way you get a potential gamebreaker with good blocking skills, and good hands that can only compliment DD's play. I believe they could be the best RB duo in the NFL this year as all around contributors. We will just have to wait and see.
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Old 04-03-2006   #16
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word on the streets is that he needs to get bulkier legs. so im not fully convinced yet. sarcasm.
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Old 04-03-2006   #17
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Fact: You can't play 2 QB's on the field at the same time (you can, but it makes no sense).
Fact: You can play 2 RB's on the field at the same time.
Fact: The Texans want to win now
Fact: Carr just signed a huge extention that will kill the cap if we cut or trade him
Fact: DD makes big $$, but see fact 2

Both picks are very athletic, but I am not sold on VY as a NFL QB. Bush's game correlates to the NFL and he was succesful in college in all the things he will be asked to do in the NFL, and has done them at a high level for the last 2-3 years. VY has not been very effective passing the ball until this year. Yes, he makes plays with his legs, but I don't think you can count on that in the NFL (see Michael Vick, see Cunningham). So it comes down to his arm which he has never sat in the pocket and beaten a good team with just his arm. That is what will have to happen in the NFL, opposing defenses will not be scared of his 4.57 scrambling ability. They have seen it before in a QB that can run a sub 4.4 (Vick). I feel for where they are right now in ability and what they can offer a team immediatly, Bush is the safer pick and the risk/reward ratio is a lot closer with him with the ceiling being just as high as with VY. I pick Bush easily.
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Old 04-03-2006   #18
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I just saw Bob Allen's report on YouTube where Reggie says he'll meet with the Texans on Thursday. I bet they start working on a contract...

**edit**
Just saw the other thread about it. Seems like a foregone conclusion now.
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Old 04-03-2006   #19
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Marginal utility folks. We're gonna pay 50+ million to improve our strongest position, where we've already got a ton of money commited. RB is a freak, but there are questions. Yes, he is multidimensional. Do we need him? Not really, and certainly not at that price. VY isn't a need pick, but we have a lot more issues at his position, where the play has not been adequate.
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Old 04-03-2006   #20
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Originally Posted by swtbound07
If Vince Young was really such a horrible player, and if he really was just a "homer" pick, then why do most mock drafts have him going anywhere from 1-10 in the nfl draft?
There are only a couple of people saying VY is going to be a bust or that Bush will be a bust. The great majority of folks on either side of the VY/Bush debate see talent and potential in both but more in one or the other or like kbourda & Tulip cast there vote VY's way out of dislike for Carr. That said, there is an obvious homer quality to the debate or Leinart would be a favorite of at least a few people and he is never even discussed--as you say, the vast majority of mock drafts have Leinart as the top QB.

Quote:
More so than that, what if he has a rothlisberger-esque first season, and goes 14-0 as a starter?
Big Ben didn't have a Big Ben-esque season--he had a very good season jumping into the QB spot on a Super Bowl quality team. In other words he had the 21 other guys around him that Tulip finds silly for Carr to need. But hey, I am sure Big Ben would have found a way to lift the 31st ranked D and make them contenders. It isn't about "giving Carr" 21 guys to succeed, it is about fielding a solid team--something the Texans did not do with the exception of a running game last year. Even the running game wasn't as solid as people act like it was. The Texans were 15th in total rushing yds, but 308 of those yds came from Carr--take those out and the Texans fall to the 24th spot.
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