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Old 04-01-2006   #1
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Default No Spin Zone: "The Carr Factor"

Just thinking about something:

Even with all the moves we're making, and regardless of the "potential" for our team, we still must overcome the "Carr Factor" that sadly has plagued this team.

The o line didn't block well (bad coaching? bad players? both?) and even when they did, Carr seemingly couldn't settle down to make the reads and go through his progressions correctly (shell-shocked? not as good as we thought? both?).

(1) O Line is getting upgraded with the addition of a very reliable center to help push back the surge up the middle that Carr was getting.

(2) The o line coaching is supposedly going to be better under the new regime.

(3) Solid TE who knows the new coach's system gives Carr a very reliable and dangerous target who can split the seams and make the big plays that the great TEs in this league are making.

(4) Possible addition of a solid # 2 Wr (Moulds) and perhaps the addition of a slot receiver (Pathon) coupled with AJ and Mathis could give the Texans a very uniquely gifted set of WRs.

(5) Either we get Bush who can play everything and might even challenge Kris Brown for kicking duties, or we trade the pick so we can make the addition of a very solid left tackle ('Brick) to guard David's blindside. Either way, we're getting a very talented player on offense who will start immediately.

All that's left is to see if Carr can succeed. It's practically all on his shoulders to make it work now. And I just sense that we have a full season of NFL football starting in September before ANYBODY gives us a second look. That means few stories on the sports programs, regardless of if we get Bush or not.

Face it: The NFL talking heads on FOX and CBS and ESPN will focus MORE on Carr and they will be scrutinizing his every single move this season. There will be pressur eon this guy from all angles because he has no room to point a finger or pass blame onto the coaches or players.

The "Carr Factor" is what this season is all about. Not the coaches. Not the new players. It's all riding on Carr, and he'll be in the biggest pressure cooker of his life. If you thought we hammered him hard this past season, it will pale in comparison to what will be said on these boards and around the country if the guy can't break our team out of the starting gates fast. The biggest game of his life, and our team's life, is the opening game of this coming season. I know he's a competitor, and competitors live for this type of stuff, but can you imagine what Carr will be thinking when he trots out onto the field for the first play of the year? He's gotta' be thinking that he's either about to become the QB he thinks he is, or he's going to be booed out of Texas if the game gets away from them. We'll all have knots in our stomachs that opening offensive drive.

Should make for good TV, eh?
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Old 04-01-2006   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976
(1) O Line is getting upgraded with the addition of a very reliable center to help push back the surge up the middle that Carr was getting.
So one guy who has been in the league for 10 years is an upgrade of the whole OL? Seems to me that is a small and somewhat questionable step, seeing that Flanagan is rather long in the tooth. There needs to be an awful lot of work on that OL to see real improvement, and that will take years to develop -- whether Kubiak is there or if they kept Capers. Personally, I don't think Kubiak knows what he is doing by bringing in 10-year vets like Moulds and Flanagan when this team obviously has to slowly build to competitive status.
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Old 04-01-2006   #3
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Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976
Face it: The NFL talking heads on FOX and CBS and ESPN will focus MORE on Carr and they will be scrutinizing his every single move this season.
I don't think the national media gives a hoot about Carr, except for a passing mention when they have to talk about him in regards to looking at the entire NFL. The Texans at this point are non-entities outside Houston and most have made their assessment about Carr -- good, solid QB, very poor OL. Heck, a few weeks ago I was listening to a network review of the new NFL coaches and Kubiak wasn't even mentioned. He wasn't even an afterthought.
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Old 04-01-2006   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo
So one guy who has been in the league for 10 years is an upgrade of the whole OL? Seems to me that is a small and somewhat questionable step, seeing that Flanagan is rather long in the tooth. There needs to be an awful lot of work on that OL to see real improvement, and that will take years to develop -- whether Kubiak is there or if they kept Capers. Personally, I don't think Kubiak knows what he is doing by bringing in 10-year vets like Moulds and Flanagan when this team obviously has to slowly build to competitive status.

That's also a 10 year vet who puts McKinney back in his correct position. You also have a HC and OC who know a thing or two about putting together lines that can run block and maintain a pocket.
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Old 04-01-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo
So one guy who has been in the league for 10 years is an upgrade of the whole OL? Seems to me that is a small and somewhat questionable step, seeing that Flanagan is rather long in the tooth. There needs to be an awful lot of work on that OL to see real improvement, and that will take years to develop -- whether Kubiak is there or if they kept Capers. Personally, I don't think Kubiak knows what he is doing by bringing in 10-year vets like Moulds and Flanagan when this team obviously has to slowly build to competitive status.

The biggest improvement to our offensive line will be Sherman.
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Old 04-01-2006   #6
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As for Carr, the consensus outside of bitter Houston fandom is that he's a QB with a great arm and promise who has suffered without much pass protection or passing options.
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Old 04-01-2006   #7
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Carr is the key. Mark my words. It will be a weekly story, a saga, on the NFL sports shows. They'll paint him as the survivor of a shipwrecked team, the guy who fans gave up on...but who had the tenacity to hang tough with Kubiak and the calvary charging to his rescue. Or, he'll be painted as one of the biggest draft busts of all time, even bigger than Ryan Leaf...he'll be roasted by fans and the media will swoop down for the kill.

Mark my words. With all the new changes and free agency upgrades/draft upgrades...the story on the Texans will be Carr and how he does or does not lead this team.

Bradford couldn't hack it at WR. Some days we'd cheer the guy for making the big catch, then we'd flame him for not showing up at all on the easy ones.

Gaffney couldn't hack it at WR. We argued forever if he was really a number 2 WR in the NFL or if he just was on the edge and would never get over the top like we felt he could.

Billy Miller, at one time, was the guy the front office was lauding...and then he was cut. Hasn't really made a splash anywhere else, has he?

2006 will be pivotal year for our team, due in large part to how well or how poorly Carr leads this team. The failures will placed squarely upon Carr's shoulderpads...even if the failures can be proven to NOT be his fault.

It'll be a story.
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Old 04-01-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el toro
As for Carr, the consensus outside of bitter Houston fandom is that he's a QB with a great arm and promise who has suffered without much pass protection or passing options.
And the consensus for those wearing Carr-colored glasses is that he has done a great job and lived up to his extension.

Anyone could have posted up the numbers that he did with a porous line these last four years, and get this they would have counted against the cap in the neighborhood of 1 million per year, not 7.

Does he have potential? Yes. Does he deserve a second chance? Probably. Has he earned the second chance at 8 mil per? Not in my opinion.
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Old 04-01-2006   #9
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Originally Posted by el toro
As for Carr, the consensus outside of bitter Houston fandom is that he's a QB with a great arm and promise who has suffered without much pass protection or passing options.
I wonder how many Texans game have they watched?

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Old 04-01-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el toro
As for Carr, the consensus outside of bitter Houston fandom is that he's a QB with a great arm and promise who has suffered without much pass protection or passing options.

Quote:
Originally Posted by axman40
I wonder how many Texans game have they watched?

Considering that the consensus is that of NFL people who get paid for their knowledge and objectivity I would assume they've watched plenty.

Anyone with a semblance of objectivity would have to be disappointed in Carr's performance to date. He was a #1 overall draft pick. Still it's difficult to judge because he's taken a beating like no other QB I can remember, and I'm roughly the same age as the Earth.

Hopefully the beatings will stop after morale improves (and personnel improves and coaching improves) and then it'll be much easier to judge the man. If Carr gets a real chance to succeed this year and he fails, then let the hammer fall.
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Old 04-01-2006   #11
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Face it: We have ownership that is dedicated to giving a respectable player every chance in the world to show their worth.

It's why Capers was kept all year long.

It's why Carr was given a bloated deal even though he didn't truly earn it, which is debateable because the line was pretty bad most of the season until the end when it firmed up a little.

Carr should have been released to test the market, with the Texans matching the offer to retain him...which "could have" resulted in a figure less than $8 mill. And we'd definitely have just as highly a paid QB as we now have with Carr...it would have been Brees, etc., or worse...it could have been Vince Young.

We got Carr. End of story, whether it was handled right or not. It was done. They are giving him a chance, and we'll certainly know after this season if it was the right move or not. But it IS definitely all on his shoulders. All of it. Whereas last year, it wasn't 100% his fault.
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Old 04-01-2006   #12
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Staying with Carr and using free agency and the draft to improve the offensive talent and maximize Kubiak's scheme is not a bad strategy. If the team opted to drop Carr and then pickup a rookie QB with the top pick then we'd be looking at 2 to 3 more seasons of sucking, guaranteed. At least now we have a real shot at winning...soon. If Kubiak (not anyone else) feels that Carr has that ability to lead a top flight offense then perhaps we shouldn't dismiss that out of hand.
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Old 04-01-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976
Or, he'll be painted as one of the biggest draft busts of all time, even bigger than Ryan Leaf...he'll be roasted by fans and the media will swoop down for the kill.
Ok, thats a little extreme don't you think. If Carr did bust he would be NOWHERE even close to the faliure that was Ryan Leaf.

Ryan Leaf was a guy that many felt was better than Peyton Manning comming out of the draft.

He is a guy that had sophmoric explosions at the media and just could flat out not play the game, His comp.% avg was 48% and his TD to INT. ratio was 14 to 36.

As Carr sits right now, he is nowhere near Ryan Leaf

Ryan Leaf is out of the league, Carr would easily get another job somewhere else.
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Old 04-01-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el toro
Staying with Carr and using free agency and the draft to improve the offensive talent and maximize Kubiak's scheme is not a bad strategy. If the team opted to drop Carr and then pickup a rookie QB with the top pick then we'd be looking at 2 to 3 more seasons of sucking, guaranteed. At least now we have a real shot at winning...soon. If Kubiak (not anyone else) feels that Carr has that ability to lead a top flight offense then perhaps we shouldn't dismiss that out of hand.
This is the problem. Most people assume that since one want to get rid of Carr that means draft a QB? No get a journeyman QB take that 6 million delta and spend and draft on the deficincies. Superstar QB's have a bigger effect on cap mismanagement than they do championships in the salary cap era.
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Old 04-01-2006   #15
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Originally Posted by gpshafer_1976
Carr should have been released to test the market, with the Texans matching the offer to retain him...which "could have" resulted in a figure less than $8 mill. And we'd definitely have just as highly a paid QB as we now have with Carr...it would have been Brees, etc., or worse...it could have been Vince Young.
If Carr was released, there would have been a ton of teams out to get him and it would have cost much, much more to re-sign him. You underestimate the value of David Carr. This guy threw for more than 3,000 yards one year when the OL was just as bad as it is now. Carr may never be Peyton Manning, but there's only one of those guys around. The rest of the QBs in the NFL are pretty average for the most part and two of those QBs led teams to the Super Bowl this past season.
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Old 04-01-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobo
If Carr was released, there would have been a ton of teams out to get him and it would have cost much, much more to re-sign him. You underestimate the value of David Carr. This guy threw for more than 3,000 yards one year when the OL was just as bad as it is now. Carr may never be Peyton Manning, but there's only one of those guys around. The rest of the QBs in the NFL are pretty average for the most part and two of those QBs led teams to the Super Bowl this past season.
You are crazy if you think anyone would have signed him for what the extension was.
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Old 04-01-2006   #17
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
This is the problem. Most people assume that since one want to get rid of Carr that means draft a QB? No get a journeyman QB take that 6 million delta and spend and draft on the deficincies. Superstar QB's have a bigger effect on cap mismanagement than they do championships in the salary cap era.
They had a journeyman QB as the backup last season. So you commit yourself to a longer turnaround process by going that route.
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Old 04-01-2006   #18
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I'm one of the biggest Carr Homers there is on this board. I saw him play at Fresno State, became a Texans fan because they drafted him, have an autograph of him at Miami during the Texans 2nd season.

However, how can you fault someone when the oragnization he's played with has given him little to nothing to play with? We, as fans, know all the reasons, no need to go over them again for the billionth timie. Has Carr made bad plays, yeah, and I'll be the first to admit it.But what I think some people fail to see is that a player can only play as well as the rest of the team.

But I will say this, if Carr can't help turn this team around within the next two years, then get rid of him...fine by me. I understand that if someone is producing, you have to remove them. Now, finally, after the first four years, the organization appears to be putting an actual team around him. So, if Carr doesn't succeed with the actual chance of being able to succeed, then fine...boot him.
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Old 04-01-2006   #19
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You are crazy if you think anyone would have signed him for what the extension was.
So we have a HC now that wants to give him a shot at being what he can be behind an improved line and offensive playbook. That extension just might end up being $ well spent. I might feel differently if Carr received that extension to quarterback Capers' offense for 3 more seasons. But he didn't.
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Old 04-01-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by el toro
So we have a HC now that wants to give him a shot at being what he can be behind an improved line and offensive playbook. That extension just might end up being $ well spent. I might feel differently if Carr received that extension to quarterback Capers' offense for 3 more seasons. But he didn't.
It is simply called Fair Market Value. Why spend extra for no value added?
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