No WR or T, I don't believe this! - Houston Texans Message Board & Forum

pittbull · 03-13-2006

Did the Grandmaster, Charley Casserly, not see the same problem many of us saw last year? Inconsistent line play and no strong threat at #2 WR to take the heat off AJ? What are they doing in FA? I know they said they didn't want to overspend to bring in decent free agents, but sometimes its a cultural change and bringing in these guys can help. Point blank, the O-line needs an upgrade and preferably someone with a nasty streak. Bottom-line, the entire team was soft the past couple of seasons, and that might help. AS for WR, I love Gaffney at the slot, but without a good #2, forget about it. Jeb Putzier or whatever other TE they want to bring in will not take pressure and triple teams off Johnson enough. I'm starting to see the same type of signings we always have had. Does Givens deserve $4Mil a year, I doubt it, but they have to extend themselves a bit to bring in someone who can stretch the field and go across the middle. Come on, they kept BRadford last year! Not one team wanted to bring him in for a look.....................and we kept him!!! Time for Charley to go, and bring in a real G.M. for this stuff! Suggestions: With whose left, Tackle LJ Shelton. At WR? Who knows, but we have to get someone beside Bradford, Mathis, or whoever else is left on the roster!

**Vinny** · 03-13-2006

Pitts is a much better LT than LJ Shelton. You don't bring in guys just to bring in guys. Pitts actually shut out Freeney twice once the Texans figured out that you should put your best LT at LT. John McClain was on 610am this morning and said the Texans told him the person that gave up the most sacks last year was David Carr. He gave up over 20 sacks and the backs and TE's gave up about 12.

CoastalTexan · 03-13-2006

I always believe everything John Mcclain says.

**Vinny** · 03-13-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoastalTexan

I always believe everything John Mcclain says.

Well, if you can't see it by watching games and you won't believe McClain, Kubiak mentions that Carr was a big part of the sack problem on the video on the front page too. Solving our offensive problem isn't just as simple as bringing in a Tackle to replace Pitts.

Frills · 03-13-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny

Pitts is a much better LT than LJ Shelton. You don't bring in guys just to bring in guys. Pitts actually shut out Freeney twice the Texans figured out that you should put your best LT at LT. John McClain was on 610am this morning and said the person that gave up the most sacks last year was David Carr. He gave up over 20 sacks and the backs and TE's gave up about 12.

McClain is also a VY supporter and has been known to blow things way overboard.

Sad actually he used to be somewhat of a non biased reporter...he needs a transfer to New York.

**Vinny** · 03-13-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frills

McClain is also a VY supporter and has been known to blow things way overboard.

Sad actually he used to be somewhat of a non biased reporter...he needs a transfer to New York.

Ok, Kubiak lied to him. We will run with that.

nunusguy · 03-13-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoastalTexan

I always believe everything John Mcclain says.

Yea me to. Its really amazing how gullible some people are when it comes to believing what McClain, Justice, and others in the Chronicle say.

**TEXANS84** · 03-13-2006

If you read what Vinny wrote, Kubiak even mentions Carr is part of the sack problem via the video on the main page. Its not a McClain/Young lovefest, its the truth. Any person knows that Carr was part of the problem.

Johnny Utah · 03-13-2006

Remember the Texans also have a draft that they will use to fill the other holes on the roster. No need to overspend on a WR when they already had to overspend for a DE. If we are able to bring in Putzier then I will be content with the FA additions this offseason.

McClain did say that the o-line is not great, but not nearly as bad as people think it is. He said that Carr, RB's, and coaching were all part of the problem.

Frills · 03-13-2006

Last year Carr also has Grade AAA+ coaching, and when he did have an actual QB coach, Pendry and Capers tried a horrible O-line "experiment"

So he runs out of bounds for a 2 yd loss instead of throwing it away, he gets a sack, and the locals get angry...in a 2-14 campaign did it really matter?

**Vinny** · 03-13-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frills

Last year Carr also has Grade AAA+ coaching, and when he did have an actual QB coach, Pendry and Capers tried a horrible O-line "experiment"

So he runs out of bounds for a 2 yd loss instead of throwing it away, he gets a sack, and the locals get angry...in a 2-14 campaign did it really matter?

This argument was about the fact that we need linemen to cure the problems....I'm just pushing the fact out that LJ Shelton replacing Pitts isn't the cure. When your QB gives up 20+ sacks all by himself, switching out lineman isn't going to help it.

TexanBacker93 · 03-13-2006

We kept Bradford last season at the veterans minimum. If not there it was pretty close. Givens wants #1 WR money. He's not good enough for that kind of money. If you look at his production against what he wants you can't give it to him. People want him because they've seen him in Super Bowls and he came from Humble. I'd rather look at Antonio Bryant or even Reche Caldwell who will sign for half of what Givens is asking for. Givens reminds me of Peerless Price. He's going to end up somewhere as the #1 guy and he won't succeed. He'd do well here since the Texans have Andre, but not at $25 million.

Putzier will help a lot. Having a receiver that can work the middle of the field will keep the safeties from keying off on AJ every play. He gets more single coverage and he's going to put up 2004 numbers again.

I don't think there are any LTs available that are better than Pitts. Shaffer might have been an upgrade, but he signed quickly and for a good chunk. Ashworth and Walker are other possibilities, but I still wouldn't put them at LT over Pitts. I would still expect them to draft 1 or 2 linemen. If the team signs Flanagan to start at center the line is going to be improved.

The team can't change every position in one season. Small changes will still affect this team. It won't take much to get the team to the .500 level this season and then the coaches will have a better feel for the personalities and talent on the roster and make the playoff push in 2007.

Trenches · 03-13-2006

great. so our QB AND our line is the problem. that was Carr's best excuse that he had no time to throw, etc. at what point do we give up on Carr? Once Kubiak has had a chance to work with him? He is developing bad habits that will be hard to break. In fact, the whole team is. Losing is a one of the hardest habits to break. Ask an Detroit fan. We are quickly becoming a joke of a franchise. This team looks no better now than it did in year 2. Still the same questions. I hope Bush is truely Barry Sanders reincarnated becuase thats what its going to take.

**Kaiser Toro** · 03-13-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trenches

I hope Bush is truely Barry Sanders reincarnated becuase thats what its going to take.

Agreed. If we do go with Bush and do not trade him the expectations will be astounding and I am not sure if any player, unit or coach would be able to live up to them. But as Napoleon Dynamite said, "Just tell them to pick Reggie, extend Carr and all of their wildest dreams will come true."

Bubbajwp · 03-13-2006

I cant believe we have to go through this again.

**Runner** · 03-13-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubbajwp

I cant believe we have to go through this again.

This weekend I spent some quiet time reflecting on my life over martinis and cigars. I felt the need to do this because of the recent Texans history and the effect I can see it is having on some people. What I found after some very serious contemplation

can be summarized as follows:

My life - home, family, health, work, etc. - was not affected by the Texans 2-14 record, not their previous 7-9 record, when they didn't exist, and probably won't be when they reach the playoffs.

I'm very relaxed now.

Bubbajwp · 03-13-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runner

This weekend I spent some quiet time reflecting on my life over martinis and cigars. I felt the need to do this because of the recent Texans history and the effect I can see it is having on some people. What I found after some very serious contemplation

can be summarized as follows:

My life - home, family, health, work, etc. - was not affected by the Texans 2-14 record, not their previous 7-9 record, when they didn't exist, and probably won't be when they reach the playoffs.

I'm very relaxed now.

Thanks I think I might try that to.

**Vinny** · 03-13-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hulk75

I believe that Carr could have done some things different he is not perfect and the OLine and RB and TEs could have done better but that does not make him a bad QB, I have seen a lot of QBs take sacks to avoid throwing the ball into tight coverage, but that is in the past and Carr has a new guy here that will get Carr to the level he can play at. Dont bring up running out of bounds either(people) he did that maybe 2 or 3 times out of frustration.

Yesterday on the draft special Kubiak said Carr and Payne have been the the guys that have been down there every day for 2 weeks straight, Carr is working hard is going to be a lot better.

I personaly would rather believe in what Kubes, Reeves, Bob, Steve have to say before I can believe a guy like John McClain, that is just me though.

McClain said Kubiak told him.......All I'm trying to relay is that when people look at sacks they automatically trash the linemen. That is not always correct.

chuckm · 03-13-2006

I heard McClain's comments as well .... he did say Carr was responsible for 20 sacks ...

however, it's difficult for me to see this as anything other than a cause and effect of having shaky protection for years ....

did he run out of bounds behind the line a number of times? Yep but the key word there is "run" ...

did he run into defenders? yep again the key word is "run" ..

I look forward to seeing him drop back and more often than not have something resembling a pocket rather than a jailbreak ....

if he can't handle things at that point then adios ...

big homey · 03-13-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinny

This argument was about the fact that we need linemen to cure the problems....I'm just pushing the fact out that LJ Shelton replacing Pitts isn't the cure. When your QB gives up 20+ sacks all by himself, switching out lineman isn't going to help it.

If the line was good enough, then Carr wouldn't have needed to run to the sideline in the first place.

03-13-2006	#19
chuckm Hall of Fame Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Spring Age: 51 Posts: 1,896 Rep Power: 13	I heard McClain's comments as well .... he did say Carr was responsible for 20 sacks ... however, it's difficult for me to see this as anything other than a cause and effect of having shaky protection for years .... did he run out of bounds behind the line a number of times? Yep but the key word there is "run" ... did he run into defenders? yep again the key word is "run" .. I look forward to seeing him drop back and more often than not have something resembling a pocket rather than a jailbreak .... if he can't handle things at that point then adios ... __________________ Sabbatical: an extended period away from our daily routine to refresh our minds and spirits

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03-13-2006	#1
pittbull All Pro Join Date: May 2004 Location: Houston Age: 39 Posts: 532 Rep Power: 10	No WR or T, I don't believe this! Did the Grandmaster, Charley Casserly, not see the same problem many of us saw last year? Inconsistent line play and no strong threat at #2 WR to take the heat off AJ? What are they doing in FA? I know they said they didn't want to overspend to bring in decent free agents, but sometimes its a cultural change and bringing in these guys can help. Point blank, the O-line needs an upgrade and preferably someone with a nasty streak. Bottom-line, the entire team was soft the past couple of seasons, and that might help. AS for WR, I love Gaffney at the slot, but without a good #2, forget about it. Jeb Putzier or whatever other TE they want to bring in will not take pressure and triple teams off Johnson enough. I'm starting to see the same type of signings we always have had. Does Givens deserve $4Mil a year, I doubt it, but they have to extend themselves a bit to bring in someone who can stretch the field and go across the middle. Come on, they kept BRadford last year! Not one team wanted to bring him in for a look.....................and we kept him!!! Time for Charley to go, and bring in a real G.M. for this stuff! Suggestions: With whose left, Tackle LJ Shelton. At WR? Who knows, but we have to get someone beside Bradford, Mathis, or whoever else is left on the roster! __________________ The Original, No Duplicating!!!

03-13-2006	#2
Vinny shiny happy fan Join Date: Apr 2004 Age: 49 Posts: 20,714 Rep Power: 55750	Pitts is a much better LT than LJ Shelton. You don't bring in guys just to bring in guys. Pitts actually shut out Freeney twice once the Texans figured out that you should put your best LT at LT. John McClain was on 610am this morning and said the Texans told him the person that gave up the most sacks last year was David Carr. He gave up over 20 sacks and the backs and TE's gave up about 12. __________________ http://twitter.com/#!/TexansTalk "A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves" - Edward R. Murrow

03-13-2006	#3
CoastalTexan Veteran Join Date: May 2005 Location: Houston Posts: 459 Rep Power: 28	I always believe everything John Mcclain says.

03-13-2006	#8
TEXANS84 Moderator Join Date: May 2004 Location: The Woodlands, TX Age: 35 Posts: 7,447 Rep Power: 3116	If you read what Vinny wrote, Kubiak even mentions Carr is part of the sack problem via the video on the main page. Its not a McClain/Young lovefest, its the truth. Any person knows that Carr was part of the problem.

03-13-2006	#9
Johnny Utah All Pro Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 551 Rep Power: 10	Remember the Texans also have a draft that they will use to fill the other holes on the roster. No need to overspend on a WR when they already had to overspend for a DE. If we are able to bring in Putzier then I will be content with the FA additions this offseason. McClain did say that the o-line is not great, but not nearly as bad as people think it is. He said that Carr, RB's, and coaching were all part of the problem.

03-13-2006	#10
Frills Veteran Join Date: Oct 2005 Age: 36 Posts: 481 Rep Power: 0	Last year Carr also has Grade AAA+ coaching, and when he did have an actual QB coach, Pendry and Capers tried a horrible O-line "experiment" So he runs out of bounds for a 2 yd loss instead of throwing it away, he gets a sack, and the locals get angry...in a 2-14 campaign did it really matter?

03-13-2006	#12
TexanBacker93 Hall of Fame Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Cypress, TX Age: 42 Posts: 1,618 Rep Power: 3447	We kept Bradford last season at the veterans minimum. If not there it was pretty close. Givens wants #1 WR money. He's not good enough for that kind of money. If you look at his production against what he wants you can't give it to him. People want him because they've seen him in Super Bowls and he came from Humble. I'd rather look at Antonio Bryant or even Reche Caldwell who will sign for half of what Givens is asking for. Givens reminds me of Peerless Price. He's going to end up somewhere as the #1 guy and he won't succeed. He'd do well here since the Texans have Andre, but not at $25 million. Putzier will help a lot. Having a receiver that can work the middle of the field will keep the safeties from keying off on AJ every play. He gets more single coverage and he's going to put up 2004 numbers again. I don't think there are any LTs available that are better than Pitts. Shaffer might have been an upgrade, but he signed quickly and for a good chunk. Ashworth and Walker are other possibilities, but I still wouldn't put them at LT over Pitts. I would still expect them to draft 1 or 2 linemen. If the team signs Flanagan to start at center the line is going to be improved. The team can't change every position in one season. Small changes will still affect this team. It won't take much to get the team to the .500 level this season and then the coaches will have a better feel for the personalities and talent on the roster and make the playoff push in 2007.

03-13-2006	#13
Trenches Veteran Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Boston Posts: 171 Rep Power: 8	great. so our QB AND our line is the problem. that was Carr's best excuse that he had no time to throw, etc. at what point do we give up on Carr? Once Kubiak has had a chance to work with him? He is developing bad habits that will be hard to break. In fact, the whole team is. Losing is a one of the hardest habits to break. Ask an Detroit fan. We are quickly becoming a joke of a franchise. This team looks no better now than it did in year 2. Still the same questions. I hope Bush is truely Barry Sanders reincarnated becuase thats what its going to take.

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