Comparison of Peppers and Mario Williams

[Coach C.]

Player Position Gil's comments
Julius Peppers DE Peppers measured up at 6-6 1/4 and 282 pounds. On the bench press, Peppers lifted 225 pounds 24 times. His arm length measured 33 3/4-inches. He ran the 40-yard dash in 4.69 and 4.71 seconds, and the 10-yard dash in 1.65 seconds. Also, Peppers had a 36-inch vertical and a 10-foot 5-inch long jump. Here's another interesting note on Peppers: he was a RB in high school and scored 46 touchdowns in addition to playing defense. Sims was also a forward in basketball, once scoring 21 points in a tournament game against Penn State last year.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/individual_workouts.html

Position Comments
Mario Williams measured up at 6-7 and 295 pounds. On the bench press, Williams lifted 225 pounds 35 times. His arm length measured 34 1/8 inches. He ran the 40-yard dash in 4.66 and 4.71 seconds, and the 10-yard dash in 1.59 seconds. Also, Williams had a 40 and 1/2-inch vertical and a 9-foot 11-inch long jump. Williams also ran a 4.37 short shuttle and a 7.21 cone drill. These numbers can be found on NFL.com but you have to download the defensive linemen archive clip from the combine.

[Honoring Earl 34]

Coach , the NFL Draft Scout has all the combine numbers by position . I like the 10 yd times for DL more than the forty .

If you look at a LBs 10yd time some of these 300 lb linemen are dead even after 10 yds , its just hard to carry that kinda weight 30 yds at the same speed .

[Coach C.]

If this does not show that this guy is even more of a beast than Peppers then I just cannot understand what people see. Now Williams has been questioned for his motivation on every play, but if you remember that Coach Jon Fox questioned Peppers early in his career. Richard Smith can motivate Williams to be a freakin terror. And btw just a dig on the VY thing Williams got a higher Wonderlic.

[Coach C.]

Originally Posted by Honoring Earl 34

Coach , the NFL Draft Scout has all the combine numbers by position . I like the 10 yd times for DL more than the forty .

If you look at a LBs 10yd time some of these 300 lb linemen are dead even after 10 yds , its just hard to carry that kinda weight 30 yds at the same speed .

What site is NFL Draft Scout...

[Kaiser Toro]

It really is mind blowing. I thought Julius Peppers was the greatest athlete I have ever seen when I saw him play on the court and field at UNC. I never thought we would see a specimen that could be faster, stronger and more athletic at that height and weight and then comes Mario Williams. Just amazing. I just hope that we do not make the same mistake twice in the same 5 years by going with another west coast softie at #1. I want power, agression and technique to apply the screws to other teams and it is ours for the taking in Williams.

[YoungTexanFan]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

It really is mind blowing. I thought Julius Peppers was the greatest athlete I have ever seen when I saw him play on the court and field at UNC. I never thought we would see a specimen that could be faster, stronger and more athletic at that height and weight and then comes Mario Williams. Just amazing. I just hope that we do not make the same mistake twice in the same 5 years by going with another west coast softie at #1. I want power, agression and technique to apply the screws to other teams and it is ours for the taking in Williams.

Freak DE's from the state of North Carolina seem to be a very good way to go.

I still would like D'brick though, just not at #1, while I wouldnt mind taking Mario there. It's a toss up for me right now. Mario's upside and natural beastly build and measurables make me dizzy.

[MorKnolle]

Originally Posted by Coach C.

Player Position Gil's comments

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/individual_workouts.html

Position Comments
Mario Williams measured up at 6-7 and 295 pounds. On the bench press, Williams lifted 225 pounds 35 times. His arm length measured 34 1/8 inches. He ran the 40-yard dash in 4.66 and 4.71 seconds, and the 10-yard dash in 1.59 seconds. Also, Williams had a 40 and 1/2-inch vertical and a 9-foot 11-inch long jump. Williams also ran a 4.37 short shuttle and a 7.21 cone drill. These numbers can be found on NFL.com but you have to download the defensive linemen archive clip from the combine.

I checked that website and found a workout for Dwight Freeney too, so here is his workout numbers from that same year just for another comparison:

At 263 pounds, he ran very well, completing the 40 in 4.45 and 4.49 seconds on a fast indoor track. Freeney also vertical-jumped 36½ inches, posted a 9-foot, 9-inch long jump and completed the short shuttle in 4.40 seconds.

Weights:
Mario - 295 lbs.
Freeney - 263 lbs.
Peppers - 282 lbs.

40 Times:
Mario - 4.66 and 4.71
Freeney - 4.45 and 4.49 "on a fast indoor track"
Peppers - 4.69 and 4.71

Vertical Jump:
Mario - 40.5 inches
Freeney - 36.5 inches
Peppers - 33.75 inches

Long Jump:
Mario - 9'11"
Freeney - 9'9"
Peppers - 10'5"

10 yard times:
Mario - 1.59
Peppers - 1.65

20 yard Shuttle:
Mario - 4.37
Freeney - 4.40

Mario seems to stack up very well with Peppers and Freeney from and athleticism standpoint and is 13 lbs. heavier than Peppers was and 32 lbs. heavier than Freeney was.

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by MorKnolle

I checked that website and found a workout for Dwight Freeney too, so here is his workout numbers from that same year just for another comparison:



Weights:
Mario - 295 lbs.
Freeney - 263 lbs.
Peppers - 282 lbs.

40 Times:
Mario - 4.66 and 4.71
Freeney - 4.45 and 4.49 "on a fast indoor track"
Peppers - 4.69 and 4.71

Vertical Jump:
Mario - 40.5 inches
Freeney - 36.5 inches
Peppers - 33.75 inches

Long Jump:
Mario - 9'11"
Freeney - 9'9"
Peppers - 10'5"

10 yard times:
Mario - 1.59
Peppers - 1.65

20 yard Shuttle:
Mario - 4.37
Freeney - 4.40

Mario seems to stack up very well with Peppers and Freeney from and athleticism standpoint and is 13 lbs. heavier than Peppers was and 32 lbs. heavier than Freeney was.

My gawd, just freaking amazing when you look at it. He has to be #1 on our board. Thanks for the breakdown Mork!

[Trapped]

Im almost convinced that we need to draft Mario Williams. Somehow someway.

Wow, this draft is just too loaded. We have two players who people are considering as the second coming of jesus(bush, young) it appears.

Then we have a couple of physical specimens(M.Williams, V.Davis).

Hawk and Ferguson are pretty good too. I say we trade down to the 5th spot, We will at least know that we would at least get one of these guys. All of em are good. This is the right draft to have the number 1 pick

[Trap_Star]

Originally Posted by Trapped

Im almost convinced that we need to draft Mario Williams. Somehow someway.

Wow, this draft is just too loaded. We have two players who people are considering as the second coming of jesus(bush, young) it appears.

Then we have a couple of physical specimens(M.Williams, V.Davis).

Hawk and Ferguson are pretty good too. I say we trade down to the 5th spot, We will at least know that we would at least get one of these guys. All of em are good. This is the right draft to have the number 1 pick

At this point, Im convinced that if we stay at #1 we draft bush, but if we trade down its either for D'Brick or Mario......NOT VINCE YOUNG

[travfrancis]

mario williams is a freak

[edo783]

With the Weaver pick for LDE, I see that as a sign the FO believes a trade down is unlikely, so they picked the best YOUNG DE available. I suspect that they believe that they will be taking Bush at one and the best tackle available at the 2nd. Could always change on draft day, but I think they didn't want to wait to the last minute and find out they didn't have a LDE.

[Coach C.]

I dont want to take anything away from Reggie, the kid is phenominal in his tests and we know what he can do on the field. VY is going to be a solid Randall Cunningham clone and do well in the league also. My thing was just look at the best rushers in this league and how they change a game. On the last placed defense that cannot get any pass rush against a good team how can we pass on a guy like this regardless if the Weaver signing is true or not.

[MorKnolle]

Originally Posted by Coach C.

I dont want to take anything away from Reggie, the kid is phenominal in his tests and we know what he can do on the field. VY is going to be a solid Randall Cunningham clone and do well in the league also. My thing was just look at the best rushers in this league and how they change a game. On the last placed defense that cannot get any pass rush against a good team how can we pass on a guy like this regardless if the Weaver signing is true or not.

I agree, I don't see how they'd pass up on a guy that is bigger than Julius Peppers, as athletic as Peppers, and as strong or maybe stronger than Reggie White to sign a guy that is smaller than Peppers and does not have the athleticism to be a pass rusher. We can have a bigger, stronger guy than Weaver at strongside DE, and one that has pass rushing skills and could easily average 12+ sacks per year rather than a guy that has averaged 4 sacks a year. Weaver at RDE is not going to attract double teams from opposing OLinemen or blocking help from TEs because they know he's not a pass rushing threat, so more of their focus will still be on stopping Peek/Babin on the weakside as they will be our only serious pass rusher, meanwhile Mario will require constant extra attention that will help free up Peek/Babin and make them more effective too. I think with the Broncos system our running game would be fine with Davis and Morency and maybe adding either a power runner or a speedster to the mix, but I don't see why they'd pass up on a guy like Mario, especially when he appears to be a smart guy and does not really have any knocks against him.

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by MorKnolle

I agree, I don't see how they'd pass up on a guy that is bigger than Julius Peppers, as athletic as Peppers, and as strong or maybe stronger than Reggie White to sign a guy that is smaller than Peppers and does not have the athleticism to be a pass rusher. We can have a bigger, stronger guy than Weaver at strongside DE, and one that has pass rushing skills and could easily average 12+ sacks per year rather than a guy that has averaged 4 sacks a year. I think with the Broncos system our running game would be fine with Davis and Morency and maybe adding either a power runner or a speedster to the mix, but I don't see why they'd pass up on a guy like Mario, especially when he appears to be a smart guy and does not really have any knocks against him.

I just do not know who is making decisions. If we had the wisdom to take Carr over Peppers in 2002 then I can believe that they would make the same mistake again. RB is never really a need in the NFL there have plenty of plug and play journeyman that have performed. Pressure on the QB is not a need, it is a must for success. Rarely, if ever, do you see a journeyman lineman have a break out year.

We are about to have our three top salaries be at QB, WR and RB. That should say everything to where we are going and why Agents know that we are a mark for big contracts in FA. Moreover, and I have said this many times, who wants to come play with our team when you look at who is getting paid the big dollars.

[Trenches]

Originally Posted by MorKnolle

I agree, I don't see how they'd pass up on a guy that is bigger than Julius Peppers, as athletic as Peppers, and as strong or maybe stronger than Reggie White to sign a guy that is smaller than Peppers and does not have the athleticism to be a pass rusher. We can have a bigger, stronger guy than Weaver at strongside DE, and one that has pass rushing skills and could easily average 12+ sacks per year rather than a guy that has averaged 4 sacks a year. Weaver at RDE is not going to attract double teams from opposing OLinemen or blocking help from TEs because they know he's not a pass rushing threat, so more of their focus will still be on stopping Peek/Babin on the weakside as they will be our only serious pass rusher, meanwhile Mario will require constant extra attention that will help free up Peek/Babin and make them more effective too. I think with the Broncos system our running game would be fine with Davis and Morency and maybe adding either a power runner or a speedster to the mix, but I don't see why they'd pass up on a guy like Mario, especially when he appears to be a smart guy and does not really have any knocks against him.

I agree. I really dont see how we can be thinking of taking a RB (granted he could be great) when we have one of the worst O lines in history, ZERO pass rush, DE's that were DE's and then LB's and now DE's again, and very little talent at LB. Our running game is solid to me with DD.

What is it that wins championships? I just look at teams like Pittsburgh, NE and even Baltimore when they won it and they were all solid teams on the lines and had great defenses. Pittsburgh didnt have a a super stud RB and Baltimore didnt have much more than a servicable QB. It takes a TEAM to win. IMO, adding a RB when you are already set at that position doesnt address the bigger picture. This team has very little talent. Its going to take years to build it. At least be solid on both lines and play good defense. That alone will keep you competitive. This draft should be run with that goal in mind.

[chuckm]

Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro

We are about to have our three top salaries be at QB, WR and RB. That should say everything to where we are going and why Agents know that we are a mark for big contracts in FA. Moreover, and I have said this many times, who wants to come play with our team when you look at who is getting paid the big dollars.

I know what would be worse .... keeping Carr and drafting Young and having that be QB, QB, WR instead ...

[Kaiser Toro]

Originally Posted by chuckm

I know what would be worse .... keeping Carr and drafting Young and having that be QB, QB, WR instead ...

That would be worse and with the track record of this organization it should be considered as a possibility.