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Old 03-09-2006   #1
travfrancis
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Default What to expect on defense - cover 2? to what extent?

so we are definitely running a 4-3, base cover 2 defensive scheme

now what does this really mean, are we going to run a true all out cover 2 defense like the bucs and colts? i'm curious as to what kind of lbs, dbs, and dt we will look at in the draft

lb - emphasis on speed, awareness, and coverage skills? (ex: sims, carpenter, jackson, alston, iwuh, nande, tulloch)
cb - emphasis on run support? maybe sacrificing some speed for awareness, ball skills, and tackling? (ex: griffin, zemaitis, maxey)
dt - will we be looking for one-gap penetrators? (ex: wroten, lewis, Mahelona)

what about the safety positions? if we run a true cover 2 then i'm assuming we'd want balanced safeties at both spots that can do a good job in coverage and tackling

Vinny, i'd like to hear you weigh in on this.
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Old 03-09-2006   #2
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Originally Posted by travfrancis
so we are definitely running a 4-3, base cover 2 defensive scheme

now what does this really mean, are we going to run a true all out cover 2 defense like the bucs and colts? i'm curious as to what kind of lbs, dbs, and dt we will look at in the draft

lb - emphasis on speed, awareness, and coverage skills? (ex: sims, carpenter, jackson, alston, iwuh, nande, tulloch)
cb - emphasis on run support? maybe sacrificing some speed for awareness, ball skills, and tackling? (ex: griffin, zemaitis, maxey)
dt - will we be looking for one-gap penetrators? (ex: wroten, lewis, Mahelona)

what about the safety positions? if we run a true cover 2 then i'm assuming we'd want balanced safeties at both spots that can do a good job in coverage and tackling

Vinny, i'd like to hear you weigh in on this.
I don't know if we're really going to run a cover 2 out of it, I hadn't heard anything in that regard. As for the draft, I could see us looking for a CB, not sure how running a cover 2 means bigger CBs. I don't know how early we'll be looking at LB, unfortunately we aren't in a position to easily bring in new LBs with Wong and Greenwood's contracts, and Orr looks like a solid OLB too. As for DTs, I don't see us even considering one of those in the draft with Robaire Smith, Travis Johnson, and Seth Payne all on the roster. We definitely need to look for DEs though as we don't have many 4-3 DEs, and that should be our top defensive priority this offseason.
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Old 03-09-2006   #3
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im not saying we would actually draft those guys, because we have other major position of needs, its really just asking which prospects would fit the mold of what we are looking for idealy with our scheme.

i just want to know why type of players we will want at each position on defense

i could have just as easily used current nfl players instead of college players
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Old 03-09-2006   #4
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Originally Posted by MorKnolle
We definitely need to look for DEs though as we don't have many 4-3 DEs, and that should be our top defensive priority this offseason.
If we do not sign one in FA then our first overall pick starts to look very obvious.

I heard Smith say he was going to run everything out of a base cover 2 look, but don't know much more than that. In a cover 2 you would like to have physical corners that can support the run well since they will be in the flat quite a bit. Indy and Tampa Bay run more of a variation of a cover two that really has a third man in the middle with deep responsibility (cover 3), rarely in man coverage. The Tampa 2 uses really light linebackers who can run well who can cover a ton of ground in the passing game and focus on flowing to the ball with great speed as a group vs the run. I'm not sure if we will be more of a transitional defense with hybrid looks while we retool, or if we do what looks like the obvious move and gut the linebackers, draft Mario Williams and cherry pick a top middle linebacker in the second round.
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Old 03-09-2006   #5
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Originally Posted by Vinny
I'm not sure if we will be more of a transitional defense with hybrid looks while we retool, or if we do what looks like the obvious move and gut the linebackers, draft Mario Williams and cherry pick a top middle linebacker in the second round.
If we get Mawae, this is what I'm thinking our next move will be.
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Old 03-09-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
If we do not sign one in FA then our first overall pick starts to look very obvious.

I heard Smith say he was going to run everything out of a base cover 2 look, but don't know much more than that. In a cover 2 you would like to have physical corners that can support the run well since they will be in the flat quite a bit. Indy and Tampa Bay run more of a variation of a cover two that really has a third man in the middle with deep responsibility (cover 3), rarely in man coverage. The Tampa 2 uses really light linebackers who can run well who can cover a ton of ground in the passing game and focus on flowing to the ball with great speed as a group vs the run. I'm not sure if we will be more of a transitional defense with hybrid looks while we retool, or if we do what looks like the obvious move and gut the linebackers, draft Mario Williams and cherry pick a top middle linebacker in the second round.
Did you just say Dunta Robinson.
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Old 03-09-2006   #7
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Originally Posted by travfrancis
im not saying we would actually draft those guys, because we have other major position of needs, its really just asking which prospects would fit the mold of what we are looking for idealy with our scheme.

i just want to know why type of players we will want at each position on defense

i could have just as easily used current nfl players instead of college players
I understand, as for more specific players, here are some ideas for defense:

DE - Mario Williams is my favorite player in the draft, I would have no problem with us drafting him at #1, or trading down to #3/4 for any deal we can get since Mario will definitely be there at either of those spots. If we decide to go with Bush at #1, then DE will likely be our first priority at #33, and we need more of a bigger, strongside DE like Tamba Hali (could be there at #33, I don't personally like him that much but he would be worth the #33 pick), Ray Edwards (not worth #33 pick, should be there at #65/66) or Victor Adeyanju (should also be there at #65/66). We have Babin and Peek that can be the smaller pass rushing DE, so we would need to look more for that bigger guy.

DT - Should not draft one at all unless by some miracle Brodrick Bunkley falls to #33 then I'd seriously consider him, but that won't happen.

LB - Not sure who we'd really look at, I don't see it being in the first two rounds for sure, maybe not even on the first day. Terna Nande has put up an interesting set of measurables at the combine, so he could be an option in the 4th round, although he's more of an OLB and we need a MLB. Bobby Carpenter would be a great pick if he somehow falls to #65/66, but I also don't see that happening. Maybe Leon Williams (should be available at #65/66, maybe #97) or Roger McIntosh (probably gone by #65) from Miami, or Anthony Schlegel (likely available at #97) from Ohio St.

CB - I'm really starting to like Johnathan Joseph, think of Dunta Robinson only a little bigger. He's just as athletic if not a little faster, he's a little bigger, he can probably cover about as well and hits the same. His stock is rising and he might climb into the 1st round, but if he's available at #33 I'd definitely like to get him. Two shut down CBs that can cover and hit would be great, the only few players I'd take over Joseph at #33 would be Eric Winston, Nick Mangold, and probably Leonard Pope, assuming any or all of them are available there. Other than him, Richard Marshall, DeMario Minter, or Ashton Youboty would be decent options, all have decent size and athleticism, but I wouldn't take any of them at #33 and I'm not sure any of them would last until #65, Minter is the most likely to fall among them. Antonio Cromartie and Marcus Maxey are bigger CBs that would be decent, Cromartie will likely be gone by #65 but is not worth #33, and Maxey should probably last until the early second day.

S - Donte Whitner and Daniel Bullocks have both driven up their stock with great workouts in the past two weeks. Both should last until #33 but could go in the 1st. Jason Allen, Darnell Bing, and Ko Simpson are all other options that could be at #33, a few of these five guys will go in the 1st round, at this point I can't really predict which ones will with much certainty, and any of them would be pretty good picks, but I'm still not sure if I'd take any of them at #33, there are several other players that I think will be there that I'd rather have.
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Old 03-09-2006   #8
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free agency starts in less than 1 hr. I guess we'll see what happens I'm sure they are targeting some DE or LB along with a TE-Putzier or WR-Bruce.

myself I would not have a problem at all if the Texans made Mario Williams the 1st overall pick, I would like it better if they traded down & still got him but that is taking a gamble if he is your #1 rated player. but I have to disagree going LB with our 2nd pick we need a stud Center and passing on Mangold would really be dissapointing right now the Texans #1 need is a Center with McKinney clearly moving to guard. also the Texans have drafted defense 1st the last two drafts not to mention the Babin & Buchanon trades that also thinned out the offensive side of the equation something like 6 picks alone:brickwall

hence a make-up call is warranted I say go Bush & Mangold #1 & #33 then do your DE/LB cherrypicking with the 3rd rd picks
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Old 03-09-2006   #9
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i'd love it if we could get cedric griffin in the 3rd round (seriously doubt hell be there), seems like a picture perfect fit at cb in the cover 2

im really interested to see what kind of lb corps we will eventually try to assemble, whether it be all really fast and light lbs like tampa has or more traditional lbs

this is the kind of stuff i'm interested in
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Old 03-10-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
I'm not sure if we will be more of a transitional defense with hybrid looks while we retool, or if we do what looks like the obvious move and gut the linebackers, draft Mario Williams and cherry pick a top middle linebacker in the second round.
This seems to have occurred with very little fanfare, but Terry Pierce is on the main site roster. He was a 2003 2nd round pick MLB by Denver.

From his draft profile:

Quote:
Positives: Undisputed leader of the defensive unit Has a great feel for the play while it is developing Fills the holes with force and has superb quickness at the point of attack Uses his strength to easily disengage from the larger blockers Uses his hands and arms to deliver a solid jolt to tight ends in the short area passing game Shows good arm extension going up for the ball Displays blazing open field acceleration Moves through traffic with great determination, possessing a fluid lateral flow to the ball Snaps his hips on contact and is very physical when taking on the ball carrier Makes the change off in the zone with good balance Has natural hands for the interception All-out blitzer who uses his combination of size, speed and strength to knife through the backfield to close in on the quarterback in pursuit.

Negatives: Gets caught up in the inside trash when he tries to overpower, rather than out-think his blockers Not that polished in pass protection, showing hesitation trying to stay with his man Needs to be more fluid in his hips in order to properly drop off in the zone A little slow coming out of his backpedal and stands too upright, causing him to take false steps in transition.
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Old 03-10-2006   #11
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i still think griffith would be the perfect corner to match up with dunta...the cover 2 defense is one built around speed...with that we need more speed at our LB positions...greenwood would be good at the wlb but wong would not surfice as the MLB or the SLB...neither would peek...or orr...i think pierce might be able to challenge for the starting MLB position with either our 2nd round draft pick or will witherspoon (pure speculation on my part)
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Old 03-10-2006   #12
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i dont think D-Rob should lose anything from this, the boy has the ability to do anything on the field he wants, i mean if he wants to put on toros suit and prance around he could and he'd be great at it, so whats up with P. B cause i havent had the internet in a year but finally got a new comp yesterday, so i am way out of date on recent events. is PB still projected to be a starter next season, I SURE HOPE NOT.
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Old 03-10-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
This seems to have occurred with very little fanfare, but Terry Pierce is on the main site roster. He was a 2003 2nd round pick MLB by Denver.
I'm glad you noticed that. He looks like he might do some good for us.

I'm also very impressed that you included the negatives as well.
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Old 03-10-2006   #14
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Anyone know what the thinking is about the McKenzie kid (cornerback) that was hurt part of last year then played some at the end?
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Old 03-10-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keyfro
i still think griffith would be the perfect corner to match up with dunta...the cover 2 defense is one built around speed...with that we need more speed at our LB positions...greenwood would be good at the wlb but wong would not surfice as the MLB or the SLB...neither would peek...or orr...i think pierce might be able to challenge for the starting MLB position with either our 2nd round draft pick or will witherspoon (pure speculation on my part)
i dont know how you get that peek wouldnt be able to play LB because he is too slow. he is one of the fastest LBs if not the fastest on the team, especially if he was able to play lighter. He did go to college as a WR so I think his wheels arent a problem, its more of the game planning and maybe some technique problems.
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