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Old 02-28-2006   #1
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Default Ourlads take on Vince Young " If the Raiders donít take him, he may free fall..."

Al Davis is enamored with Youngís speed and athletic ability. The fact is, Vince Young is a development NFL quarterback prospect that rates as a second or third round selection. A rare athlete that makes plays with his legs. In the NFL you make plays as a QB with your arm. Young hasnít demonstrated that he can read complex defenses or compete a pass through a small window of opportunity. Will a team invest an early pick and millions of dollars in a developmental quarterback that may not be ready until he is eligible for free agency? A top five athlete should not be confused with a top five position player. If the Raiders donít take him, he may free fall out of the first round once the total evaluations are tabulated.

heres their full mock: http://www.ourlads.com/2006NFLMockDraft.html
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Old 02-28-2006   #2
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PS: This was pre-combine, results will shift significantly now.
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Old 02-28-2006   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02
Al Davis is enamored with Youngís speed and athletic ability. The fact is, Vince Young is a development NFL quarterback prospect that rates as a second or third round selection. A rare athlete that makes plays with his legs. In the NFL you make plays as a QB with your arm. Young hasnít demonstrated that he can read complex defenses or compete a pass through a small window of opportunity. Will a team invest an early pick and millions of dollars in a developmental quarterback that may not be ready until he is eligible for free agency? A top five athlete should not be confused with a top five position player. If the Raiders donít take him, he may free fall out of the first round once the total evaluations are tabulated.

heres their full mock: http://www.ourlads.com/2006NFLMockDraft.html

Wow, Be ready for some backlash on this Message Board.
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Old 02-28-2006   #4
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That is actually a fair assessment of him. He is a top 5 athlete, but not necessarily a top 5 position player.
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Old 02-28-2006   #5
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So exactly which college defenses are considered "complex"?
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Old 02-28-2006   #6
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LSU's defense when they won the National Championship was pretty complex.
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Old 02-28-2006   #7
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I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the above, but I do think ourlads has been a consistently respectable scouting agency.
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Old 02-28-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulip
So exactly which college defenses are considered "complex"?
UGA typically runs a complex D.
I think THE Ohio State was also pretty complex in nature.
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Old 02-28-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awtysst
UGA typically runs a complex D.
I think THE Ohio State was also pretty complex in nature.

If that is so....didnt VY read and beat that defense with his arm??
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Old 02-28-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sprtsfanatic
If that is so....didnt VY read and beat that defense with his arm??
Passing

CMP/ATT/YDS/CMP%/LNG/TD/INT/RAT
18 /29 /270/ 62.1 /63/2 /2 /149.24

Rushing
ATT /YDS /AVG/LNG/TD
20 /76 /3.8 /32/0

Or in a word - yes.
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Old 02-28-2006   #11
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Try to compare NFL type defenses with college defenses, and continue to kid yourselves if you think they are anything but day and night.
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Old 02-28-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
Try to compare NFL type defenses with college defenses, and continue to kid yourselves if you think they are anything but day and night.

Ohio state had nfl draft picks all throughout their secondary.

their secondary had a probable 1st round cb and 2nd round safety.

their linebackers were amazing. hawk is top 5 caliber, carpernter 1st rounder, schlegel mid rounder.

one of their dlinemen just tied the record for reps on 225 at combine.

not as "night and day" as you make it out to be. their defense was just as talented as ours in the secondary and even more so at linebacker.
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Old 02-28-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
Try to compare NFL type defenses with college defenses, and continue to kid yourselves if you think they are anything but day and night.
My point was that no college player has ever had to read an NFL defense in a game situation. Young is no more behind-the-8-ball than any other college QB when it comes to "complex defenses". It's just one of those group-think generalizations that's really popular right now.
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Old 02-28-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulip
My point was that no college player has ever had to read an NFL defense in a game situation. Young is no more behind-the-8-ball than any other college QB when it comes to "complex defenses". It's just one of those group-think generalizations that's really popular right now.
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Old 02-28-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulip
My point was that no college player has ever had to read an NFL defense in a game situation. Young is no more behind-the-8-ball than any other college QB when it comes to "complex defenses". It's just one of those group-think generalizations that's really popular right now.
Anybody that argues against this is going to look pretty stupid doing so.

For the record, I'm okay with Vince dropping. I'm actually hoping for it. Dallas sits at #18.
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Old 02-28-2006   #16
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Is ourlads.com affiliated with cracksmokers.com? Do these guy HONESTLY think VY is going to drop out of the 1st round? Does anyone on this board think so?

I would be shocked if he drops out of the top 10. There is NO way he falls below Dallas at 18.
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Old 02-28-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02
Al Davis is enamored with Young’s speed and athletic ability. The fact is, Vince Young is a development NFL quarterback prospect that rates as a second or third round selection. A rare athlete that makes plays with his legs. In the NFL you make plays as a QB with your arm. Young hasn’t demonstrated that he can read complex defenses or compete a pass through a small window of opportunity. Will a team invest an early pick and millions of dollars in a developmental quarterback that may not be ready until he is eligible for free agency? A top five athlete should not be confused with a top five position player. If the Raiders don’t take him, he may free fall out of the first round once the total evaluations are tabulated.

heres their full mock: http://www.ourlads.com/2006NFLMockDraft.html
There appears to be a double standard. Not one college player has had to play against an NFL offense, or Defense....

Now we look at Vince's negatives, and say that he isn't a top ten pick, isn't a #1 overall kind of talent... that's just silly. "Young hasn't demonstrated that he can read complex defenses, or compete a pass through a small window of opportunity"....... just out of curiosity, has David Carr??
REggie Bush is the Consensus #1, even though he has none..... I repeat none of the characteristics of any running back taken with the number 1 overall..... in the history of the draft?? He's small, he doesn't run between the tackles, he hasn't shown that he can "carry the load"(#1 overall running backs carry the load)....... and he has to get to the corner. What he saw @ Texas is comparable to the worst defenses he can expect to see in the NFL. Reggie is most dangerous as a slot reciever, so... we want to spend the #1 overall on a slot reciever?? a #3 reciever??

Vince isn't perfect... I wouldn't start him right away, mainly because I think with David Carr, we can have a winning season next year....... but David has got to play at a level he hasn't played at for 16 games. If he can't do it, then I'd be more than willing to admit we are rebuilding, and put Vince in there.
I can understand if someone doesn't think Vince is a top 3 prospect...... but to say he won't go in the top ten???
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Old 02-28-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtexan02
If the Raiders donít take him, he may free fall out of the first round once the total evaluations are tabulated.
If VY free falls, I hope that he will land in Dallas.
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Old 03-01-2006   #19
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Just to let you guys know how accurate that site is:
-They have Greenway over Hawk
-DeMeco Ryans, an LB thats no bigger than some NFL Safeties, going to the Browns 3-4 D
-TE Vernon Davis falls out of the Top 10 and gets drafted by the Eagles! WTF happened to LJ Smith? And on their explanation they list that RB White is also considered, ok wtf happened to Westbrook?
-They have the Falcons picking WR in the 1st Rd for a 3rd year in a row. Not only do they now know they suck at that but they've also seen that 3 WRs in the 1st won't win you games. Not to mention they've got greater needs on D.
-DeMario Minter in the 1st? OK, at least the know how to spell REACH.
-They say the Pats will make a huge reach and get a 3rd round corner in the 1st over any other LB which is what they really need.
-Mercedes Lewis to the Bengals! This guy is out of the 1st round folks.
-No way DeAngelo last until late 1st round
-No way Kelly Jennings makes it to the 1st round

Its ok when making a mock to throw in one of those unlikely but still possibly could happen, but don't make a mock with 25 of the picks being like that.

The point of making mocks isn't to be creative, its to put down what you truely think will happen, after analyzing team needs and the players available and all other varuables.

whoever brought up that site I'd suggest to stop going to it or you will be totally lost and confused, come late April.
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Old 03-01-2006   #20
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I don't hail Young as our savior, and I don't think he is necessarily better than Cutler or Leinart, but calling a guy with this much upside a 2nd or 3rd rounder seems kind of suspect to me.
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