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Old 02-24-2006   #1
Ibar_Harry
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Default How make all the fans hate you and win

Its simple. You trade down and then all of the BUSH - YOUNG fans will blow their cookies. Gets rid of the problem through. Actually the club might be forced to do that based on the nonsense on this board and assuming it represents a cross section of Houston fans who attend the games. Some time back I posted it was time for Carr to leave town and I continue to think that is the case. I simply say that because of what's being posted here as well as places like the Chronicle. I think David has been abused and used by the previous coaching staff along with every other player on the ball club. I believe, however, that the hostility he will receive during the regular season will be a real ongoing issue. There already have been a couple of incidences in the stands with his family and I have a feeling it can only get worse. Do we now have coaches who can make a difference - most definitely. However, had VY not come along then I think Carr would have had a chance to show that he is a lot better than people think. Is Carr top top tier talent, probably not, but he is potentially much better than average. As many know I do like Carr and think a lot of him, but I don't believe his future lies in Houston even though Bob inked the contract. I think Bob has made another one of his mistakes of liking someone personally and not facing reality as far as the situation is concerned. That's why he kept Capers far beyond his time. I hope I'm dead wrong about this, but I don't think so. I would add that it is the nature of some of the comments being made on this board that concerns me. I think everyone can read them for themselves and I believe you will come to the same conclusions. Yes, there are a number of people who think well of David, but there is a lot of venom out there as well. I would hate to see David and his family go through hell, simply because people believe in him. David has always been a company man and done what he was told to do. He is simply not the type of personality that will rock the boat. The boat should have been rocked long ago, but no one could because of McNair. That is his right and I understand how he felt. He is looking for a certain kind of person for any position in his organization. He felt, Capers, Carr and many others were the type of person he wanted regardless of what it ment on the field. McNair is a gentleman looking for gentlemen for his organization. Unfortunately not all fans and players are gentlemen or gentlewomen. Have at it...
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Old 02-24-2006   #2
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
. . . I believe, however, that the hostility he will receive during the regular season will be a real ongoing issue. There already have been a couple of incidences in the stands with his family and I have a feeling it can only get worse. ...
Ibar...you say a couple incidences in the stand regarding his family. . . I was only aware of one....What is the other?

P.S. You know Capers is gone now right? You can get rid of the pink soap!
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Old 02-24-2006   #3
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Well, if david has some good games all will be well. He's going to have alot of pressure and if he struggles, the, fans are going to be all over him. He is not going to get a warm reception from everyone. There are alot of people in carrs corner and most of the fans have never been on this message board. The texans fans have been pretty good to carr and the situation would be alot worse in other nfl cities. The Houston fans have been pretty patient. I think the new coaches, along with Dan Reeves feel carr can do the job and that is why he will still be here, not because McNair likes him. If Reeves evaluation did not give carr any support and if Kubiak did not think he could win with carr, then carr would not be here. I still think there is a chance that the texans will take Young.
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Old 02-24-2006   #4
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Its simple. You trade down and then all of the BUSH - YOUNG fans will blow their cookies. Gets rid of the problem through. Actually the club might be forced to do that based on the nonsense on this board and assuming it represents a cross section of Houston fans who attend the games. Some time back I posted it was time for Carr to leave town and I continue to think that is the case. 1. I simply say that because of what's being posted here as well as places like the Chronicle. I think David has been abused and used by the previous coaching staff along with every other player on the ball club. I believe, however, that the hostility he will receive during the regular season will be a real ongoing issue. 2. There already have been a couple of incidences in the stands with his family and I have a feeling it can only get worse. Do we now have coaches who can make a difference - most definitely. However, had VY not come along then I think Carr would have had a chance to show that he is a lot better than people think. Is Carr top top tier talent, probably not, but he is potentially much better than average. As many know I do like Carr and think a lot of him, but I don't believe his future lies in Houston even though Bob inked the contract. I think Bob has made another one of his mistakes of liking someone personally and not facing reality as far as the situation is concerned. 3. That's why he kept Capers far beyond his time. I hope I'm dead wrong about this, but I don't think so. I would add that it is the nature of some of the comments being made on this board that concerns me. I think everyone can read them for themselves and I believe you will come to the same conclusions. Yes, there are a number of people who think well of David, but there is a lot of venom out there as well. 4. I would hate to see David and his family go through hell, simply because people believe in him. David has always been a company man and done what he was told to do. He is simply not the type of personality that will rock the boat. The boat should have been rocked long ago, but no one could because of McNair. That is his right and I understand how he felt. He is looking for a certain kind of person for any position in his organization. He felt, Capers, Carr and many others were the type of person he wanted regardless of what it ment on the field. McNair is a gentleman looking for gentlemen for his organization. Unfortunately not all fans and players are gentlemen or gentlewomen. Have at it...
1. John McClain is a huge Vince Young fan. He doesn't like David Carr. There are plenty of people who like Carr but McClain has the loudest voice there.

2. There has only been one incident that I know. It sounds to me like we have some crappy fans and they the fans are the problem and not the player in this case.

3. Kept Capers "far beyond" his time. Maybe that losing season seemed like an eternity but all three seasons before he had the team improving. As soon as the team regressed he was canned the day after the season. What did you want him canned after game five? Most coaches don't get the axe in the middle of the season. Atleast not many quality programs fire their coach in the middle of the season.

As far as Carr goes.....Yes there are a lot of people who believe in him. We as "Fans" should see that as a positive thing. Hey maybe we have a guy with talent who hasn't been give a chance to prove how good he is because he gets hit 2 seconds after he gets the ball.

As of right now, anyone that hopes that David Carr fails next year is not a Texans fan.
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Old 02-24-2006   #5
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My problem is not with carr but with the front office. Year 1 we did not need a franchise quarterback we needed to build a line on both sides of the ball in year 1 and 2. Then you start looking for a QB, its not glamorous but the rubber meets the road in the trenches. Carr shoulf have never been a Texan, but that is not his fault. He is gun shy and you cal look at the people in the front office for the blame. This year we do not need bush or young, we need still to build the lines but the fans and originization are blinded by the skill positions. We will never be more than mediocre until we build solid Oline and Dline.:brickwall
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Old 02-24-2006   #6
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Carr knows what lies ahead. I for one commend the way he has handled all this VY talk. He knows what the fans think, and he knows what kind of knife he will be under. Any other QB in his situation would ask not to be resigned or would've asked to be traded. Carr wants to see this thing through. I for one got the feeling that this dude is going to be on a mission this year from his press conference when we signed him. I think Kubiak has made it very known to him what he expects out of a QB and Carr was ready to go to work.
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Old 02-24-2006   #7
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No expansion team should ever draft a QB with its 1st selection. It is just a recipe for disaster. Get a foundation piece (O-line or front seven D) with that first selection and let some veteran journeyman QB take his lumps for the first couple of years.

Your O-line IS going to be bad to horrible, so why damage a young QB when you can get one year 2 or 3 and start him year 3?
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Old 02-24-2006   #8
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Originally Posted by TheOgre
No expansion team should ever draft a QB with its 1st selection. It is just a recipe for disaster. Get a foundation piece (O-line or front seven D) with that first selection and let some veteran journeyman QB take his lumps for the first couple of years.

Your O-line IS going to be bad to horrible, so why damage a young QB when you can get one year 2 or 3 and start him year 3?
I agree [again ]. I've always wondered about the decision to draft/start a rookie QB for a brand spanking new team with an untested o-line. The only answer that really makes sense to me is from a marketing perspective, the "face of the franchise" and all that jazz. But from a practical x's & o's pov, I just can't see the logic of letting your rookie set the NFL sack record in his first year of his career and of the franchise.

I hope people would rise above the pettiness once the season starts and root on DC irregardless of this off-season's results. But I know that's just wishful thinking, and once people get liquored up and he has a bad pass it'll come out in full force.

It could (and probably will) get ugly....very ugly....unfortunately.
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Old 02-24-2006   #9
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Originally Posted by Double Barrel
I hope people would rise above the pettiness once the season starts and root on DC irregardless of this off-season's results. But I know that's just wishful thinking, and once people get liquored up and he has a bad pass it'll come out in full force.

It could (and probably will) get ugly....very ugly....unfortunately.

It's too bad the fans don't hold themselves to the same high standards to which they hold the players.
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Old 02-24-2006   #10
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Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
Its simple. You trade down and then all of the BUSH - YOUNG fans will blow their cookies. Gets rid of the problem through. Actually the club might be forced to do that based on the nonsense on this board and assuming it represents a cross section of Houston fans who attend the games. Some time back I posted it was time for Carr to leave town and I continue to think that is the case. I simply say that because of what's being posted here as well as places like the Chronicle. I think David has been abused and used by the previous coaching staff along with every other player on the ball club. I believe, however, that the hostility he will receive during the regular season will be a real ongoing issue. There already have been a couple of incidences in the stands with his family and I have a feeling it can only get worse. Do we now have coaches who can make a difference - most definitely. However, had VY not come along then I think Carr would have had a chance to show that he is a lot better than people think. Is Carr top top tier talent, probably not, but he is potentially much better than average. As many know I do like Carr and think a lot of him, but I don't believe his future lies in Houston even though Bob inked the contract. I think Bob has made another one of his mistakes of liking someone personally and not facing reality as far as the situation is concerned. That's why he kept Capers far beyond his time. I hope I'm dead wrong about this, but I don't think so. I would add that it is the nature of some of the comments being made on this board that concerns me. I think everyone can read them for themselves and I believe you will come to the same conclusions. Yes, there are a number of people who think well of David, but there is a lot of venom out there as well. I would hate to see David and his family go through hell, simply because people believe in him. David has always been a company man and done what he was told to do. He is simply not the type of personality that will rock the boat. The boat should have been rocked long ago, but no one could because of McNair. That is his right and I understand how he felt. He is looking for a certain kind of person for any position in his organization. He felt, Capers, Carr and many others were the type of person he wanted regardless of what it ment on the field. McNair is a gentleman looking for gentlemen for his organization. Unfortunately not all fans and players are gentlemen or gentlewomen. Have at it...

Regardless of what everyone is saying about him and how everyone is talkin about VY, DC is taking things like a gentleman. He is a classy guy IMO. Along with the beatings he has endured the last 4 yrs. you would think he would be seeking a trade. Instead, the guy is willing to stick around for another 3yrs. He knows what is ahead of him and is going to come out on a mission to win back all of the fans that have turned on him within the last yr. Texan fans should respect the fact that the new coaches believe in his abilities, bein that they have tons more knowledge, have won a couple of SB's ( Kubiak, Reeves)and have played/coached one of the best QB's to ever play. They must see something in him that they really like. As far as his family being harrased by other fans. I really think that is ToroSheet. Its not the families fault the FO could not surround him with quality L-Men. Hopefully, he will not be walkin into a snake pit. Funny how at the end of 04' begining 05' everyone was talkin about he is going to take us to the playoffs. The whole team has a horrible yr. and now everyone wants to cut ties with the guy. Oh well, he has another 2 yrs to win back the fans that jumped ship. You know, the ones that call themselves True Texan Fans.
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Old 02-24-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibar_Harry
I don't believe his future lies in Houston even though Bob inked the contract. I think Bob has made another one of his mistakes of liking someone personally and not facing reality as far as the situation is concerned. That's why he kept Capers far beyond his time.
IMO VYs coming out this year was one of the reasons McNair picked up Carr's option, gives him a very good excuse not to take VY. It wasn't the only reason for sure, but I doubt he wants to go thru the hassle again of having a
#1 overall going to a QB, especailly one who will be such a humongous project
and have such a steep downside. Not that VY doesn't have an upside, he has tremendous potential in the NFL, though I'm unsure at which position he'll
end up playing ?
As far as keeping Capers beyond his time, I don't know what that means unless you'd expect him to cut Capers lose in midseason. I think he handled
the Capers dismissal just right. Afterall, the team was progressing gradually thru its first 3 years, before the roof fell in this past season.
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Old 02-24-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOgre
No expansion team should ever draft a QB with its 1st selection. It is just a recipe for disaster. Get a foundation piece (O-line or front seven D) with that first selection and let some veteran journeyman QB take his lumps for the first couple of years.

Your O-line IS going to be bad to horrible, so why damage a young QB when you can get one year 2 or 3 and start him year 3?
I DO agree w/ you...but you seem to be forgetting one thing.

Remember that the Texans DID think they had a great LT in Boselli, so they didn't think they needed to draft one at that time. Of course, we all know how that turned out. While this is an example of putting all of your eggs in one basket, it is nonetheless what happened.

Now, why we haven't drafted better Olinemen since then, I couldn't tell you....except that Casserly and Capers are jackasses.
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Old 02-24-2006   #13
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yeah give carr one solid year and all of those who feel that way will feel really different and talk about how great he is, its funny how fast the tide turns on people.
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Old 02-24-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBC_Justin
As of right now, anyone that hopes that David Carr fails next year is not a Texans fan.
I'm not a Carr fan but I agree with you, if we keep him (which I'm sure we will) then I'll support him, just right now I want him gone.
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Old 02-24-2006   #15
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Originally Posted by Big B Texan Fan
I'm not a Carr fan but I agree with you, if we keep him (which I'm sure we will) then I'll support him, just right now I want him gone.
I Still wear Carrs Jersey, but the Steeler, first Titan, and Cheif games when he dropped back and fumbled the ball for no apparent reason erases all this "its not his fault" talk. The guy had no pressure and for some reason he looks sloopy. 4 years has been too long and yall people are asking for another 4. I will be in the stands booing AGAIN at his mistakes and at the coaches for not putting in another quarterback when we need one.
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Old 02-24-2006   #16
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This is a mute point. The fact is Satan himself could QB the team and if they win we will ALL support him. So if the Texans start to win games with Carr as QB we will support him and if we continue to loose then we won't.

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Old 02-25-2006   #17
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This is a mute point. The fact is Satan himself could QB the team and if they win we will ALL support him. So if the Texans start to win games with Carr as QB we will support him and if we continue to loose then we won't.

Exactly. I also think that even if we drafted God's gift to football and he didn't do very well, these true red and blue fans would be booing him and wondering why we didn't keep Carr. It is the nature of the average football fan.

If you are a true fan, you support your team...unless they go 2-14 and then you can grumble - but you still support them. That is the nature of a true football fan.
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Old 02-25-2006   #18
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I'm certainly encouraged more by the thoughful reponses to this post. To me many of you are looking at it the way I do to a certain degree. I have felt that Kubiack and his coaches can do a lot with Carr and the Team as a whole. To me the only question is will the VY - Bush think create such a stir that Carr simply won't have a chance. Most of you have taken as it should be taken and I hope you are representative of the Texans fans. I really like what I have seen and heard from the new coaching staff and I'm very optomistic about what next season could be. The only caviat is the contraversy and whether that becomes a coaching nightmare. As I stated in the initial post it might be wise to trade down and solve a lot of problems including a possible contraversy. That way all the BUSH and VY fans are mad. It will be interesting to see what stragey they persue. I was impressed with D'Brick and some of the other O-line people. This is going to be a tough draft to evaluate and make decisions on. It will be very interesting to see which way the Texans go. You can make a case of each senario. Hopefully they figure out and take the one that gives the Texans the most promise for the future.
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Old 02-25-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sangien
My problem is not with carr but with the front office. Year 1 we did not need a franchise quarterback we needed to build a line on both sides of the ball in year 1 and 2. Then you start looking for a QB, its not glamorous but the rubber meets the road in the trenches. Carr shoulf have never been a Texan, but that is not his fault. He is gun shy and you cal look at the people in the front office for the blame. This year we do not need bush or young, we need still to build the lines but the fans and originization are blinded by the skill positions. We will never be more than mediocre until we build solid Oline and Dline.:brickwall
Year one David Carr seemed to be the obvious pick. No one even questioned the decision. (In hindsight, I'd take Peppers, hands down.). But Carr was a SICK NFL prospect at the time. Between his game film, his workouts, his stable background, his speed, his strength, his cannon arm, the guy had it all. At the time he was a no brainer. (Many smart NFL minds still think he has it all. A LOT of people outside of Houston are still high on the guy. If VY wasn't coming out this year a lot of people in Houston will still be high on him.)

Lets not forget that we picked up Boseli, who at the time was arguably one of the best LT in the league. We also got a few hot D-line guys, who have never played as well for us as they did with previous teams. So if you go back in time and you look at the information they had at the time, I don't think their decisions were all that bad. We got some good corners, Some good Linebackers, and some good D-line guys. We should have been set on Defense. But their was ZERO chemistry.

I agree getting D'Brick or Super Mario would be a smart choice for us. But you can't take either of those guys with the #1 pick. We would be laughed out of the league. We would need to trade down to 3-6 to grab one of those two guys and to do that someone has to agree to trade with us.

personally I don't care about the first pick as long as we can get O-lineman Eric Winston with our #33 pick.
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Old 02-25-2006   #20
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Carr was one of the top prospect but if you remember correctly david had a funny delivery and still to this date. i just think it was the wrong pick not only because he played in a weak conference but it was our 1st year david never really had a chance and now sad to say it david is mentally shot and i dont think thats some thing that can be corrected.
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