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Old 02-12-2006   #1
BlueThunder
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What happens if our QB goes down during the season?

Look at the Chargers,Drew Brees never did anything till they drafted a QB in the first round.Then he decided to quite being stupid and fuk the front offices plans up.**** don't alway go as planned and sometime things don't fit like the fairy tail dream you had when you put it all together.Wouldn't you feel much better to have another option if things fall apart and the river runs thru it..Heck in three DL we have more invested then 2 QBs.We took the hit like a Champion.We can do what we want now and our first QB ain't alway the one that gets you there.I will say if Carr gets us to the playoffs i'd feel pretty good knowing Vince is there to take over if he goes down.Look around the league,at what stalled teams,and most of the ones that had a chance fell short by poor depth at QB or RB..Is it working any?Talk investment Vince will make that back in jerseys the first year in the Children department..

Last edited by BlueThunder; 02-12-2006 at 09:31 PM.
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Old 02-12-2006   #2
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Yah.. we should trade up and draft Lienart too.. just in case Carr and Young go down.

Better safe than sorry.
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Old 02-12-2006   #3
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I definitely do not think the team should just be handed to Carr, with no competition at all. He hasn't earned it up this point, he showed potential 2004, but really took a step back last year. He does need to be challenged and taking Vince would be a great move. If Carr steps up, Vince's trade value would still be through the roof a couple of years later.
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Old 02-12-2006   #4
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IMO - A little competition can be a healthy thing.

I doubt we draft VY at this point, it doesn't make financial sense at this point.

Mores the pitty.
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Old 02-12-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueThunder
What happens if our QB goes down during the season?

Look at the Chargers,Drew Brees never did anything till they drafted a QB in the first round.Then he decided to quite being stupid and fuk the front offices plans up.**** don't alway go as planned and sometime things don't fit like the fairy tail dream you had when you put it all together.Wouldn't you feel much better to have another option if things fall apart and the river runs thru it..Heck in three DL we have more invested then 2 QBs.We took the hit like a Champion.We can do what we want now and our first QB ain't alway the one that gets you there.I will say if Carr gets us to the playoffs i'd feel pretty good knowing Vince is there to take over if he goes down.Look around the league,at what stalled teams,and most of the ones that had a chance fell short by poor depth at QB or RB..Is it working any?Talk investment Vince will make that back in jerseys the first year in the Children department..
You don't need two #1 picks at QB for adequate depth, that is bad economics and is not a good argument for it at all. Compared to other positions QBs don't get injured that much if their OLine is doing their job at all, and Carr has been sacked a record number of times in a four year span and still hasn't been hurt (he did injure his ankle a couple years ago but that's not really on the OLine, just a fluke). Anyways, injuries do happen, but you can't invest that much money and draft value into an insurance policy like that, and the Rivers/Brees situation is different anyways.

BTW, additional jersey sales don't help our team at all, that income goes to the NFL shared revenue and is split between the 32 teams.

This argument you've presented does nothing towards swaying my vote in Vince's direction at all. Got any other ideas to add?

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Originally Posted by Wharton
IMO - A little competition can be a healthy thing.

I doubt we draft VY at this point, it doesn't make financial sense at this point.

Mores the pitty.
A little competition can be healthy (Carr has earned his spot thusfar, albeit against competition that wasn't top-notch but he's still earned it), and I think we need a better guy at backup than Tony Banks, a veteran with experience and wisdom (Banks should have this) that is more capable of leading the team if needed. Vince Young is not that guy.
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Old 02-13-2006   #6
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Originally Posted by MorKnolle
A little competition can be healthy (Carr has earned his spot thusfar, albeit against competition that wasn't top-notch but he's still earned it), and I think we need a better guy at backup than Tony Banks, a veteran with experience and wisdom (Banks should have this) that is more capable of leading the team if needed. Vince Young is not that guy.
Very good point. A team doesn't want to rely on a rookie QB if their starter gets hurt. Ok, so it worked out well for the Steelers last season, but most of the time that QB gets rocked. Bring in a stronger vet to back him up if you are worried about insurance. IF the team decides to draft Young, they should trade Carr (eating a big cap hit) and start Banks or sign someone else. This alone is the best reason that they won't draft Young. It's not financially sound. If they were going to look at him they wouldn't have signed Carr to the extension. Like the move or not, it's a done deal.
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Old 02-13-2006   #7
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I think the Texans should try and pursue John Kitna, sign him for backup amount of money and have him compete with Carr
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Old 02-13-2006   #8
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Well,They have a lot of respectable people influancing things.If they want Bush and think he's there best pick then thats the way to go.They have a lot invested in Carr and Bush did win the heisman.What are they gonna do,trade and get mulituple picks take Bush or screw everything up with Vince Young?There going to be a better team this year regardless if they take care of the defensive problems.

Ive got to change my whole plan now

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Old 02-13-2006   #9
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Originally Posted by Samer
I think the Texans should try and pursue John Kitna, sign him for backup amount of money and have him compete with Carr
Kitna would be ok but after Carson's knee injury I'm not sure they let Kitna go as some uncertainty remains on how well/quick Palmer recovers from his injury. He is also one that I see either staying with Cincy or going to a team that he has a chance to win in the playoffs with in the very near future, and I don't see that being here. I think he will either want to be in a situation where he can start or at least really compete for a starting spot, or where he can maybe win a Super Bowl within the next year or two, and I don't see Houston being that match for him.
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Old 02-13-2006   #10
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Mork--I don't have a link, but I saw an article within the last week saying Kitna has every intention of exploring the FA market and seeing if he can find a team who will give him a shot at starting. He is a UFA so the Bengals can't do anything to stop him if he wants to leave.
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Old 02-13-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorKnolle
You don't need two #1 picks at QB for adequate depth, that is bad economics and is not a good argument for it at all. Compared to other positions QBs don't get injured that much if their OLine is doing their job at all, and Carr has been sacked a record number of times in a four year span and still hasn't been hurt (he did injure his ankle a couple years ago but that's not really on the OLine, just a fluke). Anyways, injuries do happen, but you can't invest that much money and draft value into an insurance policy like that, and the Rivers/Brees situation is different anyways.
Vince Young is not that guy.
I think the insurance, is in case Carr turns out to be Kitna.... I know, Drafting Vince says we are going to be letting Carr go in the futrure, but a lot of that has to do with what Carr does. I say he's got to perform at his 2004 level for 2 years in a row, otherwise, he's gone.

I hope you guys are right, and that he will be better than Plummer one day. 'Cause if you guys are hoping that he'll be just as good as Jake..... it would be stupid to pass on Vince now.
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Old 02-13-2006   #12
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Mork--I don't have a link, but I saw an article within the last week saying Kitna has every intention of exploring the FA market and seeing if he can find a team who will give him a shot at starting. He is a UFA so the Bengals can't do anything to stop him if he wants to leave.
I don't doubt Kitna will explore the option of leaving, but I think the Bengals will want to keep him with the uncertainty of Palmer's situation and would make him a nice offer to stay. I also think if he does leave he'll go to a team that, as you said, he has a chance to start for (I don't think that's us, I don't think McNair and Casserly will pay Carr that money and say he's our guy just to bring someone in that will replace him, they might consider him as a backup but if he comes I don't think they'd start him regardless, and I don't know if he can beat out Carr anyways) and for a team that has a chance of making a good playoff push in the next year or two. As I said before I don't see us doing that this year and maybe not by next year either (hopefully we will by 2007, but until we see what we end up with this offseason I'm not getting my hopes up).
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Old 02-13-2006   #13
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I really don't see Kitna coming to Houston.I think he has a better shot somewhere else like Arizona,Miami or Detroit.I don't see him signing a backup contract.I think he will go to a team that offers him contract for starter money.Besides with all the dead money we will have this year I don't see a QB as the top priority.If we want to have a chance ,were going to have to make some heady moves.My plan was to go offense in the draft but if we keep Carr we may want to go offense in FA and defense in the draft.I will work on a contengency plan with Carr as the focus.
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Old 02-13-2006   #14
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Originally Posted by thunderkyss
I think the insurance, is in case Carr turns out to be Kitna.... I know, Drafting Vince says we are going to be letting Carr go in the futrure, but a lot of that has to do with what Carr does. I say he's got to perform at his 2004 level for 2 years in a row, otherwise, he's gone.

I hope you guys are right, and that he will be better than Plummer one day. 'Cause if you guys are hoping that he'll be just as good as Jake..... it would be stupid to pass on Vince now.

Actually, David needs to improve upon the 2004 performance and maintain that level or he should be gone. If he can get to the 20-25TD range and keep the INTs at 8-10 with 3500 yards passing that is a very good year. He hasn't done it in the past, but with blocking and coaching it's possible. Right now it's all about the whatifs.

What if they don't draft Young and Carr never progresses?
What if they draft Young and Carr becomes the next John Elway?
What if they don't draft Young, Carr becomes very good and Young becomes the next guy they compare every QB too?
What if they draft Young, Carr sucks, Young sucks?

Best scenario to me....they draft Williams and he becomes the next Strahan.
Carr becomes the QB they thought they drafted and starts having 25TD and 3500 yard seasons. The Texans go on to become the Steelers/Broncos as far as being a model of consistency with a winning tradition. They become fixtures in the playoffs and win a couple of Super Bowls. If that happens I can't see anyone caring what Young does in Tennessee or New Orleans, or New York, or Dallas. Even if they face him twice a year or once a year in the Super Bowl. Man wouldn't that be titanic? Dallas vs. Houston in the Super Bowl with Young vs. Carr. They could do that as a Pay-per-view event in Texas and they'd make Billions.

Worst scenario to me...they draft Bush/Young/Williams/D'Brick and they don't turn out to be the best ever at their position. Carr either moves on and succeeds elsewhere or never progresses and the team picks at the top of the draft every season. Arizona, meet Houston. They'll be sharing the basement with you.

It's a tough call. No matter what they do, some people won't like the decision. At least the..."I'll never root for the Texans if they don't take (____)" has died down. I think most people here feel that the organization wants to put together a winning team. Some of us feel Carr is the QB that can take the team to the promised land. Others feel Young is the QB that will lead them there. At this point, nobody is right. Nobody is wrong. I'll proudly wear a Texans jersey with whichever player they get come the start of next season.
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Old 02-13-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorKnolle
I don't doubt Kitna will explore the option of leaving, but I think the Bengals will want to keep him with the uncertainty of Palmer's situation and would make him a nice offer to stay. I also think if he does leave he'll go to a team that, as you said, he has a chance to start for (I don't think that's us, I don't think McNair and Casserly will pay Carr that money and say he's our guy just to bring someone in that will replace him, they might consider him as a backup but if he comes I don't think they'd start him regardless, and I don't know if he can beat out Carr anyways) and for a team that has a chance of making a good playoff push in the next year or two. As I said before I don't see us doing that this year and maybe not by next year either (hopefully we will by 2007, but until we see what we end up with this offseason I'm not getting my hopes up).
Acutally Kitna is pretty much gone from cincinnati. They just signed Doug Johnson as a back up last week. This means that either Kitna is going to be a third stringer or leave. He could still do some things in the league so he is more than likely leaving cincinnati.
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Old 02-13-2006   #16
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I know Kitna is gone but he's not looking to sit on the bench.He will go where the money sends the message home.If a team comes at him with a good contract then he knows there intent is to start him.The Texan arn't going to offer him a contract like that because their still in the back of there heads planning with Carr at the helm.
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Old 02-13-2006   #17
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I really don't see Kitna coming to Houston.I think he has a better shot somewhere else like Arizona,Miami or Detroit.I don't see him signing a backup contract.I think he will go to a team that offers him contract for starter money.Besides with all the dead money we will have this year I don't see a QB as the top priority.If we want to have a chance ,were going to have to make some heady moves.My plan was to go offense in the draft but if we keep Carr we may want to go offense in FA and defense in the draft.I will work on a contengency plan with Carr as the focus.
Miami is a possibility, but I don't see Arizona or Detroit.
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Old 02-13-2006   #18
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What happens if our QB goes down during the season?

Look at the Chargers,Drew Brees never did anything till they drafted a QB in the first round.Then he decided to quite being stupid and fuk the front offices plans up.**** don't alway go as planned and sometime things don't fit like the fairy tail dream you had when you put it all together.Wouldn't you feel much better to have another option if things fall apart and the river runs thru it..Heck in three DL we have more invested then 2 QBs.We took the hit like a Champion.We can do what we want now and our first QB ain't alway the one that gets you there.I will say if Carr gets us to the playoffs i'd feel pretty good knowing Vince is there to take over if he goes down.Look around the league,at what stalled teams,and most of the ones that had a chance fell short by poor depth at QB or RB..Is it working any?Talk investment Vince will make that back in jerseys the first year in the Children department..
Maybe we can get rid of that pesky salary cap while we are at it too? Hell, why stop there? Let's see what the Colts want for Peyton Manning while we're at it. If two is better then three is better still.

If you are this desperate to get Carr out of the way, I hear voo doo works. Sometimes. Well ... that's what I heard, any ways.
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Old 02-13-2006   #19
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Actually I would draft Vince Youngl,tie the offensive linemen to a pole and beat them till they decide to restructure at a reasonable price.They are robbing McNair and oputting the whole team in a position that hurts there chances.The best thing to do is get them out as soon as possible and limit picking up high priced FAs.The best way to build a Championship team is through the draft.Vince will make the whole team better instantly but i'm no spurt.
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Old 02-13-2006   #20
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A little competition can be healthy (Carr has earned his spot thusfar, albeit against competition that wasn't top-notch but he's still earned it), and I think we need a better guy at backup than Tony Banks, a veteran with experience and wisdom (Banks should have this) that is more capable of leading the team if needed. Vince Young is not that guy.[/quote]



How exactly as Carr earned anything?

After everybody see's what the Chargers get for Phillip Rivers, they will begin to think that you can have two #1 QB's. The trade value for QB's is so much higher, than for a RB.

We could get good value for Carr right now.

That way you upgrade the QB spot and still uprade the defense or offensive line by trading Carr.

But if the Texans pass on Vince and he goes to Tennessee, which is the most likely spot, that means the we have to play him twice a year AND beat him out every year for the division. Now, not only do we have to beat Peyton Manning twice a year, but also Vince. That doesn't sound to good for me.

Now think about this, because Tennessee wants Vince real bad.

For all you people that think Reggie is really the answer, then wouldn't the smart thing to do be to draft Vince and hold the Titans hostage, then trade him for the world to the titans.

New Orleans will still take Matt, because that is their biggest need. That means we could then draft Reggie at 3rd.

See I think Reggie will be around at 3. As long as we don't trade with anyone outside of 1-3, then we could get either one at 3, since Matt is pretty much a lock at 2.

Now I wouldn't care which one we got a the 3rd spot and we could still get something else also, which we need so desperately.

The 3rd spot is ideally where we wan't to pick, not only to save money on the pick, but also, because we could get something for trading down and if Reggie is there, then take Reggie, if Vince is there then take Vince. If the Titans did decide to take Reggie then we could still get Vince at the 3.

Everybody might be able to argue one or the other, but no one can argue with one and another pick or an up and coming DL or OL.

Last edited by YoungnotBush; 02-13-2006 at 07:53 PM.
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