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Old 02-10-2006   #1
Cheroqui
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Question Run N' Shoot

Hey, could the Run N' Shoot work with David Carr? I was thinking if we were to get Vince (not likely now), yes, but can we use it with David? Asking only because I may not now every detail about it and who you have to place in there for it to work. I say Carr is at least fast as Moon was if not faster when Oilers ran it back when. What do you say?
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Old 02-10-2006   #2
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Moon wasn't a scrambler. Moon was a prototype pocket passer.
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Old 02-10-2006   #3
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It may work, it may not. I'm pretty sure that we won't be using the Run n' Shoot here though. That's not Kubiaks specialty.
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Old 02-10-2006   #4
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Ah the old Chuck and Duck.
1 second
2 second
3 second

NAH!!!

It didn't work that well the first time around.
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Old 02-10-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Moon wasn't a scrambler. Moon was a prototype pocket passer.
Yeah I know he wasn't but, is it a good offense for a QB that can move a little bit is basically what I was asking. I always thought Run N' Gun was a 4-5 wide set with a HB that will allow a QB to try to pick up the first if all DB's are occupied. Also with that there won't be as many people in pursuit of the QB at the same time. Right or wrong?
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Old 02-10-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeplin
Ah the old Chuck and Duck.
1 second
2 second
3 second

NAH!!!

It didn't work that well the first time around.
Oh ok. I was told that the RNG used to light defenses up though. It didn't work well? Ok. Now I know
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Old 02-10-2006   #7
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Would it work with Carr .... in a word NO. The Qb has to be adept at reading the defense .... That and arm strength were Moons strong points .... Carr has trouble reading the defense .....
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Old 02-10-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeplin
Ah the old Chuck and Duck.
1 second
2 second
3 second

NAH!!!

It didn't work that well the first time around.

9-7
11-5
10-6
12-4

With Warren Moon, he exits and you get

2-14

I'd say it worked just fine. Oh wait, they never reached the Super Bowl so it didn't work out that well the first time around did it. I guess the Colts offense under Manning doesn't work and niether did the Chargers offense under Fouts.
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Old 02-10-2006   #9
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Well, it does have some fundametal flaws, see Buffalo game...you can only play one way.
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Old 02-10-2006   #10
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No. Didn't work (meaning no SB) with Moon and Moon was better.

And whomever said Carr is a scrambler, that's funny.
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Old 02-10-2006   #11
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The Run-N-Shoot would work very well with Carr. I'd love to see it installed, but that is not the direction the Texans are wanting to go. And for what it's worth to the above mention to the Bills game, it was not the run-n-shoot at fault in that loss.
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Old 02-10-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
9-7
11-5
10-6
12-4

With Warren Moon, he exits and you get

2-14
He exits along with Mike Munchak, Sean Jones, William Fuller, Curtis Duncan, Lee Williams, and Buddy Ryan (plus sprinkle in the loss of your starting QB - Carlson - for several games due to injury in the first quarter of Week 1 at Indy with no qualified backups other than two bumpkins named Billy Joe and Bucky) not to mention the psychological effects of Buffalo and KC from the prior two seasons and the fact that Bud had said in '93 that if they didn't get it done he would have to blow up the team becuase of that new thing called the salary cap, and you get 2-14.

Last edited by aj.; 02-10-2006 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 02-10-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aj.
He exits along with Mike Munchak, Sean Jones, William Fuller, Curtis Duncan, Lee Williams, and Buddy Ryan (plus add the loss of your starting QB - Carlson - for several games due to injury in the first quarter of Week 1 at Indy with no qualified backups other than two bumpkins named Billy Joe and Bucky) and you get 2-14.

Quite correct. I did not want to go into that kind of detail (I'm lazy) but yes, your version is far more accurate.

I'm not personally a critic of the Run and Shoot. It's not what I'd prefer to see my team use but if you have a very talented offense and skill position players who are able to make it work then it can easily be a very successful offense.

As to the Buffalo game I can only say one thing. Regardless of how you score the points 38 of them should be enough to win a football game. If it's not then your problem isn't the offense. It's the defense. I know many disagree with me but that's what I think. 38 points should be more than enough to win a football game.
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Old 02-10-2006   #14
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The defense was as much or more at fault as the offense in both the Buffalo and KC playoff losses.

I thoroughly enjoyed watching the R&S in those years. It was exciting and Moon was spectacular in command. But you need a defense that can handle being on the field 35 minutes a game.

The book has been out for a while on how to defeat a pure R&S so it's no longer effective as a base offense but you still see a lot of derivations of it being run in terms of formations and sets and the QB/WR 'read routes' that are still quite common throughout the league.

Last edited by aj.; 02-10-2006 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 02-10-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hervoyel
9-7
11-5
10-6
12-4

With Warren Moon, he exits and you get

2-14

I'd say it worked just fine. Oh wait, they never reached the Super Bowl so it didn't work out that well the first time around did it. I guess the Colts offense under Manning doesn't work and niether did the Chargers offense under Fouts.
Well I would say so far manning has not been to the superbowl. Fouts didn't win a SB either. Now I think we will agree they were and are all good QB's
When it is all said and done I bet they all wish they won a SB. I am just saying I never saw the Chuck and Duck win the SB. The West Coast Offense on the other hand has won a bunch of them and with different QB's. Montana, Young, Farve, and Elway to name just a few.
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Old 02-10-2006   #16
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Wheres Buddy Ryan when ya really need him?...
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Old 02-10-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheroqui
Hey, could the Run N' Shoot work with David Carr? I was thinking if we were to get Vince (not likely now), yes, but can we use it with David? Asking only because I may not now every detail about it and who you have to place in there for it to work. I say Carr is at least fast as Moon was if not faster when Oilers ran it back when. What do you say?
I personally loved the Run N Shoot. I don't care what we run as long as we win. Oh and David Carr is much more suited for the Run N Shoot than Vince Young. You need to be able the throw accurate laser beam passes, mobility is not a important.
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Old 02-10-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeplin
Ah the old Chuck and Duck.
I'm with ya. When I played ball for Conroe High School, we ran the Cut'n'Shoot offense.

Sorry, it was too damn easy.
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Old 02-11-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aj.
The defense was as much or more at fault as the offense in both the Buffalo and KC playoff losses.
I personally never did the math, but i heard it said one time that after the Oilers got their biggest lead (35-3 I think) if they would have kneeled on the ball every single time from the 3rd qtr until the end of the game, it would have been virtually impossible for Buffalo to score enough points to win the game.
Anyone else ever hear such a claim, and does it hold H2o?
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Old 02-11-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm
I personally never did the math, but i heard it said one time that after the Oilers got their biggest lead (35-3 I think) if they would have kneeled on the ball every single time from the 3rd qtr until the end of the game, it would have been virtually impossible for Buffalo to score enough points to win the game.
Anyone else ever hear such a claim, and does it hold H2o?
Inability to run the ball and bleed the clock played a part in it.
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