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Old 02-10-2006   #1
Kaiser Toro
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Default Front office loyalty to Carr and possible implications

DD signed a new contract last year after being the first recognized player on the Texans franchise as Rookie of the Year. He has had two 1,000 yard seasons and almost a third. He has show the ability to be a very good pass catcher. Moreover, he does have return skills.

Morency was a value pick in my opinion selected on the first day last year and is a definite change of pace back.

Wells has been here since day one and two of his advocates have been returned on the coaching staff - Chick Harris (RB) and Marciano (ST). He has shown marked improvement doing what is needed and usually performing pretty well when given an opportunity.

My point is is that I do not see any of these guys going anywhere due to McNair overspending on Carr, an asset that still has not returned on the investment. The running game has been our best offensive weapon. We have all of our guys in the running game set to return, per hopefully resigning Wells, as well as the RB coach. If Reeves and Cass see something between the lines in Carr then they definetly must see the value of the current running game. I do not see Bush being drafted by this team as he would cost 7 million per year, but we would not get 7 million dollars worth on incremental output. I honestly believe Bush just became the odd man out as someone who will be in Texans uniform next year.
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Old 02-10-2006   #2
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DD can't stay healthy a full year, can't pass block either.

Wells will most likely move to FB.

Bush is versatile, can split wide, or line up in backfield.

Morency is still raw, needs to work more on his recieving.

The value in the running game was partly due to the lack of pass protection, when you know your line can't pass block, you tend to run more...and Capers wanted to run 3 straight downs when down by 28.
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Old 02-10-2006   #3
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Originally Posted by Frills
DD can't stay healthy a full year, can't pass block either.

Wells will most likely move to FB.

Bush is versatile, can split wide, or line up in backfield.

Morency is still raw, needs to work more on his recieving.

The value in the running game was partly due to the lack of pass protection, when you know your line can't pass block, you tend to run more...and Capers wanted to run 3 straight downs when down by 28.
With Morency having one year under his belt, and all ships rising due to the Kubiak Tsunami, he will be able to foster the load that will extend Davis through the season. And if you think Davis is injury prone, then how in the heck are we going to move him to another team?

The value of the running game will have to take a backseat next year in order to show Kubiak's touch on Carr and the passing game. Expect an upgrade on the O line, TE and WR (including resign of Gaff). I know people will say Bush at WR, but how many routes has he run in the NFL? In a Kubiak offense? How will he block? Will he pick up the playbook? Zone blocking? With one unproven 8 million dollar man extended the prospect of another unproven 7 million dollar man joining him in the backfield next year is nil in my opinion.
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Old 02-10-2006   #4
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Next year isn't as much an issue as 07, we got a 2 mil bonus to the cap (only good thing Bradford did last year) and the cap will rise to 92-95 mil.

I hope we trade down and get Brick, but if thats not happening, I say Bush over Young.
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Old 02-10-2006   #5
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The Texans will absolutely go into draft day with (a) a willingness to draft down and an idea of the value they want to do so, and (b) a decision on who they will take at #1 if they can't receive value to trade down. Simple game planning really. If they determine the only two legitimate #1 picks are a QB and a RB your logic kicks harder than it shoots. In other words, cap wise it makes just as much or more to have $15 mil actually in the backfield on the field than $8 mil in the backfield and $7 mil on the bench. This may very well point to an inclination to trade down if possible, but IMO I don't see how it can be viewed as lessening Bush's chances if the Texans actually exercise the #1 pick.
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Old 02-10-2006   #6
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
The Texans will absolutely go into draft day with (a) a willingness to draft down and an idea of the value they want to do so, and (b) a decision on who they will take at #1 if they can't receive value to trade down. Simple game planning really. If they determine the only two legitimate #1 picks are a QB and a RB your logic kicks harder than it shoots. In other words, cap wise it makes just as much or more to have $15 mil actually in the backfield on the field than $8 mil in the backfield and $7 mil on the bench. This may very well point to an inclination to trade down if possible, but IMO I don't see how it can be viewed as lessening Bush's chances if the Texans actually exercise the #1 pick.
I think that 7 million dollar insurance policy on the bench is more palatable than 15 million in the backfield. Let's face it we are all happy with Carr being retained, but we are still waiting for him to show us the mojo after the Texans have shown him the money.
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Old 02-10-2006   #7
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
I think that 7 million dollar insurance policy on the bench is more palatable than 15 million in the backfield. Let's face it we are all happy with Carr being retained, but we are still waiting for him to show us the mojo after the Texans have shown him the money.
That makes zero sense with your normal cap considerations. You have previously said you don't like the value of #1 QB's and now having two of them with one unable to see the field makes more sense than two #1's on the field at the same time? At this point, we have to hope Carr succeeds and passing on improving the team to draft his replacement to sit on the bench in case he fails (that is still $15 mil in the backfield by the way--just half the backfield is 2nd string) hardly seems like doing the most you can to succeed and seems like gross cap mismanagement IMO.
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Old 02-10-2006   #8
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Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Let's face it we are all happy with Carr being retained, but ....
Throwing good money after bad is what I see. I can only hope for the best...but I'm not real happy with this off-season so far.
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Old 02-10-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
That makes zero sense with your normal cap considerations. You have previously said you don't like the value of #1 QB's and now having two of them with one unable to see the field makes more sense than two #1's on the field at the same time? At this point, we have to hope Carr succeeds and passing on improving the team to draft his replacement to sit on the bench in case he fails (that is still $15 mil in the backfield by the way--just half the backfield is 2nd string) hardly seems like doing the most you can to succeed and seems like gross cap mismanagement IMO.
Getting off track. My point of view has always been trade down and do not see the value in QB's at #1. Just saying that in viewing the lay of the land as the Texans mosaic takes shape I do not see Bush being the option. What the front office does and what we think are usually at odds with one another. I would have not extended Carr myself, but would have released him and tried to renegotiate.

Believe me, the extension of Carr makes me pumped that the trade down has just become more likely.
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Old 02-10-2006   #10
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Originally Posted by Vinny
Throwing good money after bad is what I see. I can only hope for the best...but I'm not real happy with this off-season so far.
I had no reason for optimism in the past because of the staff and Carr. I am more optimisitic due to Kubiak being here and Reeves and Kubiak giving thumbs up to Carr. People's necks are on the line right out of the gate and I like that. No time I have ever felt that this was the case for the Texans.
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Old 02-10-2006   #11
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Originally Posted by infantrycak
That makes zero sense with your normal cap considerations. You have previously said you don't like the value of #1 QB's and now having two of them with one unable to see the field makes more sense than two #1's on the field at the same time? At this point, we have to hope Carr succeeds and passing on improving the team to draft his replacement to sit on the bench in case he fails (that is still $15 mil in the backfield by the way--just half the backfield is 2nd string) hardly seems like doing the most you can to succeed and seems like gross cap mismanagement IMO.
grosse cap mismanagement, is giving a guy $8 million dollars who runs into blockers, and runs out of bounds with the ball in his hand..... behind the line of scrimmage.

I think the FO feels really bad for Carr. After all, they did it to him. Starting him from Day one. It don't matter how tough he is, setting the NFL records for sacks, is no way to start your NFL carreer.... So, they're going to do it right this time. While giving David ample time to retrain, and boost his value.
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Old 02-10-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Believe me, the extension of Carr makes me pumped that the trade down has just become more likely.
Why? The extension of Carr is basically non-news. The news would have been if they did NOT extend Carr or only extended him 2 years. I am operating under the same assumptions that I have been for the last month or so.

As for trade down, it is not in the Texans hands. One of the teams below the Texans have fall into unreasonable love with Bush/Young/Leinert. Taking the the next 6 teams only two are not going to be under new administration (Titans and 49ers) and both of those are just emerging from cap issues with little or no depth. None those teams should trade up: givng away multiple picks and players for right to overpay for one player.
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Old 02-10-2006   #13
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He deserves the $8 million for puttig up with Capers and his screwball offense system that got him banged up every Sunday.

I've had it with the "Carr doesn't deserve the money" stuff from you guys. He has talent or Reeves & Kubes would have said so. And as far as I am concerned, the ownership of this team DESERVES to have to pay him the cash because of THEIR ineptitude in terms of not putting GOOD coaches behind Carr who might have had us in the playoffs by now.

Man, you guys really have the long knives out for Carr.

Bush is growing on me every day. Here's a tid-bit from ESPN the mAgazine that I just got yesterday: Coaches breaking down Bush film from the USC-Notre Dame game replayed a SINGLE Bush play (a counter running play) where Bush leapt over a would-be tackler and with only one foot planted onto the turf as he was coming back down from the leap, Bush made a CUT. A CUT. The coaches switched from analyzing the play and went into pure "amazement" mode as they replayed the play and saw something they had never seen before: A guy who was seemingly preparing his body in mid-air to make a cut even before the feet were placed onto the turf after the leap. He lands on one foot, and never even has to worry about regaining balance because he was already making a cut on that one foot when most players would be focusing on just staying on-balance so they could keep running.

I, too, would like to get 'Brick. But Kubes wants a loaded backfield, and he's getting it with Bush.
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Old 02-10-2006   #14
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He deserves the $8 million for puttig up with Capers and his screwball offense system that got him banged up every Sunday.

I've had it with the "Carr doesn't deserve the money" stuff from you guys. He has talent or Reeves & Kubes would have said so. And as far as I am concerned, the ownership of this team DESERVES to have to pay him the cash because of THEIR ineptitude in terms of not putting GOOD coaches behind Carr who might have had us in the playoffs by now.

Man, you guys really have the long knives out for Carr.
Actually some of us think that you hurt your team by paying franchise money to a non-franchise producer in a cap league. Overspending for an average QB means you can't pay other positions as well as you could if you chose not to. It's not a personal opinion (about DC's character)....its a football opinion - no knives out here.
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Old 02-10-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
Actually some of us think that you hurt your team by paying franchise money to a non-franchise producer in a cap league. Overspending for an average QB means you can't pay other positions as well as you could if you chose not to. It's not a personal opinion....its a football opinion - no knives out here.
All I could say is that if I was Carr, I wouldn't mind giving some of that money back so the front office can spend that money on people to protect my ***, that's just me though. It could end up benefiting Carr in the long run. Even though it's been my opinion that the team has never given Carr a chance to succeed, I think it would go a long way in proving he's a team guy. JM
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Old 02-10-2006   #16
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The problem that I have for some, is that they already have their minds made up that Carr is a dog, no matter what Kubiak and Reeves thinks. Therefore, no matter what happens, Carr will continue to be a dog. And therefore, no matter what Carr does this season under Kubiak, Carr is still, and will always remain a dog.
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Old 02-10-2006   #17
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But I've asked this before, and I'll ask it again. Is the difference between Carr and Young so great, that you'd pay the cost of giving up Bush?
I think it is. The Broncos traded the back most like Bush (Portis) and went with a back more like Dom a year ago....You can find backs everywhere, all the time, and in any draft. Elite QB's are much tougher to secure.
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Old 02-10-2006   #18
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Originally Posted by bigTEXan8
All I could say is that if I was Carr, I wouldn't mind giving some of that money back so the front office can spend that money on people to protect my ***, that's just me though. It could end up benefiting Carr in the long run. Even though it's been my opinion that the team has never given Carr a chance to succeed, I think it would go a long way in proving he's a team guy. JM
im sorry but would you be willing to give up the money which you were entitled to get especially millions just to make up for the bad decision making of Casserly and the scouts.I dont think thats right its not DC's fault,its all on Casserly not picking up good FA and college players and lets not forget giving players like Marcus C. and G.Walker extensions they didnt need.In that case you might *** well ask all those guys to restructure their contracts lets see if they are team players.
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Old 02-10-2006   #19
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In my opinion this bonus is more important to the future than the #1 pick . I'm like Vinny in thinking Carr's not worth this kind of money and he's owed nothing for getting pounded , I believe he knew the risk when he entered the draft .

I hope the Texans made this decision with their head and not their heart or to cover their backside .
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Old 02-10-2006   #20
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Originally Posted by Vinny
Actually some of us think that you hurt your team by paying franchise money to a non-franchise producer in a cap league. Overspending for an average QB means you can't pay other positions as well as you could if you chose not to. It's not a personal opinion (about DC's character)....its a football opinion - no knives out here.
So do you think this is a trend with the FO? Greenwood, Wade, and Pitts are all certainly not deserving of 20-25 million dollar contracts if you are judging solely on past production.
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