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Old 02-09-2006   #1
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Default Would This be bad for our Cap

I have read alot about an idea that we could trade down to #4, in doing so, we would get a second rounder and the DE from NY, if they decided to franchise tag him. From there we would draft Ferguson, because we already have one of the NFLs top DEs. Does any one think that this could happen, and if it could can anyone tell me how it would effect our cap room.
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Old 02-09-2006   #2
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ur refering to Abraham???? dont u have to give up a couple of first round picks for a player that has been franchised???
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Old 02-09-2006   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H-Texan7_5
ur refering to Abraham???? dont u have to give up a couple of first round picks for a player that has been franchised???
Yeah, I mean Abraham, but my thought is, if NY resigns or ever franchised Abraham, they may trade him away for a chance to move up and get Bush, and this way the wont have to give up there 2007 first rounder.
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Old 02-09-2006   #4
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Texans would negitiate a long term deal with Abraham that would supercede the franchise tag prior to finalizing the trade . If they negotiated a $10 million signing bonus that would be $2 million per year against the cap for 5 years (max) plus yearly base salary plus incentives.

I think the #4 gets a signing bonus of 8-10 million or 1.7-2.0 million agaisnt the cap for 5 years.
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Old 02-09-2006   #5
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Abraham would be franchised by the Jets and traded here so they wouldn't incur any cap hit, then we would have to resign him for the trade to go thru. He would probably get a deal for an average around $5-6 million a year, which isn't a bad deal for a Pro-Bowl DE, and depending on how big the signing bonus is and how his base salary is allocated throughout his career we could afford it (i.e. we can backload his contract more so it won't count as much against our cap this year, that way in a couple years we can clear some of our huge contracts out like Gary Walker, Seth Payne, Todd Wade, etc. so we will have more room for Abraham's contract). This trade would be a possibility, the Jets are going to be way over the cap and will likely not be able to resign Abraham anyways, although rumors around other teams' message boards say Abraham might be sent to the Chiefs or Broncos for the #20 or #22 pick, respectively, so that might be a more attractive offer to them. We will have to wait and see what the Texans do in free agency and if they can shop this trade to the Jets and see if there is mutual interest between the teams.
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Old 02-10-2006   #6
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Contract Comparison Info.

Last year’s #1Alex Smith
The 49ers signed Smith to a six-year contract on July 25, 2005. The Mercury News reports that the deal is worth $49.5 million and includes $24 million in bonuses.The San Francisco 49ers signed quarterback Alex Smith, the No. 1 overall pick in the 2005 draft, to a $49.5 million, six-year contract on Tuesday. Smith will receive $24 million in guaranteed money, which includes his bonus. Smith's average annual salary of $8.25 million tops the $7.5 million average the Giants gave to quarterback Eli Manning, the first pick in the 2004 draft. The $24 million in guarantees for Smith is a 20 percent increase over Manning's deal -- Manning had $20 million of his $45 million guaranteed in 2004.

Last year’s #2 Brown
Brown received the richest NFL rookie contract ever for a non-quarterback after being selected No. 2 overall in the 2005 NFL Draft. According to the Miami Herald, Brown's five-year deal could be worth as much as $34 million, and he received about $19.9 million in guaranteed money. Performance incentives in the deal include bonuses for being among the NFL's top five leading rushers and earning a Pro Bowl berth. If Brown does not reach his incentives, the deal will be worth around $31 million, according to the Herald. According to the South Florida Sun-Sentinel, "the bulk of Brown's guaranteed money will come in the form of an eight-digit option bonus in 2006."
Base salaries:
2005: $230,000; 2006: $3.37M; 2007: $4.04M; 2008: $4.072M; 2009: $5.4M; 2010: $5M
Brown didn't receive a traditional signing bonus but he will soon collect a $2.47 million roster bonus.
If the Dolphins exercise an option bonus in the 2006 offseason that would give Brown a one-time payment of $12.24 million, his base salaries would be reduced to:
2006: $310,000; 2007: $984,000; 2008: $1.66M; 2009: $2.33M
The 2010 season would remain the same but is likely to get voided if Brown reaches a minimum play-time incentive.
The Dolphins are expected to exercise the option bonus because almost all of Brown's base salary between 2006 to 2009 is guaranteed. By converting that guaranteed money into bonus form, the Dolphins would reduce Brown's salary cap number in each of those seasons.
The second overall selection in April's draft, Brown also can earn an additional $4 million over the life of the contract through not-likely-to-be-earned incentives. For example, the minimum threshold for a $500,000 bonus is for Brown to tally 750 rushing yards, 1,601 combined yards or 45 receptions in a season. The most Brown can earn through that kind of incentive is $3 million if he posts 1,750 rushing yards, 2,300 combined yards or 95 receptions.
Other incentives in Brown's contract include rewards for Rookie of the Year ($500,000), Pro Bowl ($250,000) and finishing in the top five in the NFL in rushing ($500,000).

LAST YEAR’S FOURTH PICK
After a franchise-record 36-day holdout, Benson signed a five-year deal with the Bears on August 28, 2005. The deal is believed to be worth about $35 million, with somewhere between $17 and $17.5 million of the total guaranteed, according to published reports.

LAST YEAR’S FIFTH PICK
Signed a five-year deal on 7/30/2005. The contract included $13.115 in guaranteed money, and could be worth more than $30 million if he reaches incentives.
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Old 02-10-2006   #7
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So - 4th pick gets about 6-7 mil a year.
Abraham will get about 7 mil a year.

We don't have enough cap room.
Imagine that we take Mario at #4.
Our DL salary: currently 39 mil (see below) + 15 (mario and abraham) = 54 mil
THAT IS OVER HALF OF THE SALARY CAP

2006 cap salary/if cut
Gary Walker.............$5,839,493/$7,357,972
Robaire Smith...........$4,797,827/$5,591,308
Seth Payne..............$3,931,160/$3,393,480
Travis Johnson.........$1,500,160/$4,760,640
Jerry DeLoach..........$953,660/$580,980
Junior Ioane............$651,160/$212,320

So, I don't think we can afford Abraham.
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Old 02-10-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xman
So - 4th pick gets about 6-7 mil a year.
Abraham will get about 7 mil a year.

We don't have enough cap room.
Imagine that we take Mario at #4.
Our DL salary: currently 39 mil (see below) + 15 (mario and abraham) = 54 mil
THAT IS OVER HALF OF THE SALARY CAP

2006 cap salary/if cut
Gary Walker.............$5,839,493/$7,357,972
Robaire Smith...........$4,797,827/$5,591,308
Seth Payne..............$3,931,160/$3,393,480
Travis Johnson.........$1,500,160/$4,760,640
Jerry DeLoach..........$953,660/$580,980
Junior Ioane............$651,160/$212,320

So, I don't think we can afford Abraham.
Good work on that. I don't think Abraham will cost quite that much, I think a 5-year deal would be worth about $27.5-30 million for him, so $5.5-6 million per year. Mario could get $6 to maybe $6.5 million per year as the #4/5 pick, so let's say $12 million between the two of them, which wouldn't be that bad for a multi-Pro-Bowl DE and a stud rookie DE (plus DEs are generally the 3rd highest paid position behind QB and CB). The rest of our guys are a bit of a concern though. DeLoach and Ioane can be cut which will save $800k. Hopefully we can get Walker and Robaire to restructure and take a bit of a pay cut (maybe down to $4 million cap hit for a total of $8 million between them rather than $10.6 million), unfortunately we can't really threaten to cut either of them (I wouldn't cut Robaire anyways) since that would cost us more against the cap to cut them than keep them. Payne could also be cut to save $600k, then either keep Ioane or DeLoach or sign a cheap guy since we'd still have Walker, Smith, and Johnson splitting time at the two DT spots. Peek and Babin will likely become DEs, Peek isn't going to cost much as a RFA, and Babin isn't counting too much against the cap yet either.

Bringing in Abraham and Mario will be expensive (although Mario will still be cheaper than Vince or Reggie, so any cap constraints for drafting Mario will be magnified for either of them), so that might not be a very good possibility.
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Old 02-10-2006   #9
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Sorry for my confusion, but where is the 39 million figure coming from?
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Old 02-10-2006   #10
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yeah, the current line is around $15M, just a bit less then $39M. Also, I think LT's get more money then DE's.
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Old 02-10-2006   #11
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I don't think we should trade for DE John Abraham.I think we will be better off getting a player on the rise.I think Abraham is on the decline,we want to bring in an up and commer that we can get at a good price.If we go after a big time DE then we want to get a player for the future.I don't think we should go after a Pro bowler if we can keep from it.I would stay away from franchise money also,,we should bring a solid mid level talent.We just need to wait and watch the market..I would look for a 5 Year 18 mil with a desent bonus (stick a hook in it) for help in run support just to get by.If a really good one falls in our lap and is just going into his prime then yes.I don't think we should break the bank on any of them..We can get bye with with a stop gap if we have to.I would love to have a 13 sack kingpin but I would rather have the #1 defense.I haven't even start yet and we could bring him in to see what his price is.His value is down with the injury.He wouldn't get PB money from me.He's not top ten anymore and he's only finished 1 full season in three years..His value is down.I wouldn't trade for him but I would bring him in to talk and maybe even offer him something on a 3 year option.You just never know he could be our player.

Last edited by BlueThunder; 02-10-2006 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 02-11-2006   #12
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Abraham has 53.5 sacks and 212 tackles in 73 career games (he has missed 23 games in six years due to injury, but did have three seasons playing all 16 games), not bad stats at all. He's been to three Pro-Bowls now and will only be 28 years old at the start of this coming season, so I think he still has plenty of upside left in his career if we're willing to pay out the money for him.
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