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Old 07-30-2004   #1
infantrycak
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Winslow, Poston Reject Contract
By Pat McManamon, Editor
This report filed July 30, 2004


Kellen Winslow and his agents did not accept a contract offer from the Browns that would have paid him the same as Sean Taylor, who was selected one pick in front of Winslow in the draft.

As a result, Winslow will not be present when the Browns open training camp Friday afternoon.

The Browns and Winslow’s agent, Kevin Poston, talked into the evening on Thursday before discussions ended.

On Friday, the Browns released a statement from team president John Collins stating their case.

Collins said the Browns had offered Winslow the same deal that Taylor signed with the Washington Redskins. Taylor was the fifth pick in the draft, Winslow the sixth. Protocol typically calls for Taylor to make more money, but since he signed first the Browns matched his offer.

“Given the close personal and competitive relationship between Kellen and Sean Taylor, as well as their equal talent level on different sides of the football, we did not want to penalize Kellen for being picked one slot below his former teammate,’’ Collins said in the statement. “Faced with the opportunity to get Kellen in camp on time, we made our best offer.’’

That means the Postons did not agree to an offer that would have paid Winslow $13 million in guaranteed money and allowed him to earn $40 million over six years, figures that have been published about Taylor’s deal.

The $40 million is the maximum Taylor can earn – if he reaches his incentives. A league source said those incentives are tied to Pro Bowl appearances, but the Browns’ tied their incentives to Winslow based on catches because Pro Bowl voting can be subjective, a source said.

The team’s release also said that its offer to Winslow would have given him more money than Kansas City tight end Tony Gonzalez. Gonzalez’s deal, signed after a lengthy holdout prior to the 2002 season opener, earns him $22 million over five years, an average of $4.4 million.
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JMO, but NFL teams need to work on pushing money down from the top 15 players into the lower draft positions. With Manning getting a $20 mil signing bonus (2nd largest ever), Gallery getting $18.5, we are seeing rookies with lots of "potential" exceed the contracts of proven pro-bowlers and blow up the franchise numbers on their initial contracts. Just don't understand how teams can justify paying a rookie more than what a pro-bowler would get as an UFA.
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Old 07-30-2004   #2
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I totally agree. But the fact is you are paying for youth. An idea is that you could save your money, drop down into the low 1st or second round, get a good rookie who will play for a fair amount. And use the money you didnt blow on a top 10 player in FA to gain instant power. Not "potential" players. JMHO
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Old 07-30-2004   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
JMO, but NFL teams need to work on pushing money down from the top 15 players into the lower draft positions. With Manning getting a $20 mil signing bonus (2nd largest ever), Gallery getting $18.5, we are seeing rookies with lots of "potential" exceed the contracts of proven pro-bowlers and blow up the franchise numbers on their initial contracts. Just don't understand how teams can justify paying a rookie more than what a pro-bowler would get as an UFA.
Thats what I said when I heard Manning got 20 million. Thats a bigger signing bonus then what Brett Favre got 4 years ago. IMO, the NFL needs to look into making the rookies signing like the NBA...
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Old 07-30-2004   #4
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I agree but don't look for that to happen anytime soon. I am very high on Winslow as a player, and even thought about him as a potential Texan, but there were several things tugging at me, chief among those was comments he made, plus the selection of the Postons as his agent. The Postons are notorious for these kind of holdouts. Assuming the Browns are on the up and up here, I wouldn't improve the offer either. Frankly, I would say they are being generous, and Kellen surely isn't making any friends among his potential fan base.
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Old 07-30-2004   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
...Just don't understand how teams can justify paying a rookie more than what a pro-bowler would get as an UFA.
For one, the draft position indicates the player's value. If there were no college draft and Winslow was on the open market, he'd probably end up with a contract similar to the one he'll eventually sign. There would be enough teams out there that think he's that pro-bowler that he'd get that contact from someone. The college draft isn't necessarily about keeping costs down for rookies, it's about making the talent dispersion fair and equitable. It's about parity.

I'm just so, so glad the Texans didn't end up with Winslow. Casserly just loves him, but I still think he's the most overrated player coming out of this draft.
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Old 07-30-2004   #6
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For one, the draft position indicates the player's value.
Well kind of--it indicates their relative value but not absolute dollar value. Maybe my impression is wrong but it seems that the upper end this year has gone slightly nuts. Carr and Palmer got $10 mil bonuses with secondary bonuses of $4 mil and at least in Carr's case that second bonus was not all new money as it bought down his base salaries in future years. The rule of thumb has been 6-10% increase per year for the same position--Manning is getting 80-100% more over a 1-2 year time period.

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If there were no college draft and Winslow was on the open market, he'd probably end up with a contract similar to the one he'll eventually sign. There would be enough teams out there that think he's that pro-bowler that he'd get that contact from someone.
That's what just seems odd to me and I'm not sure it's true. Take any of the star players who have finished their rookie contracts and become UFA's, i.e. really hitting the prime of their career--none has ever gotten a signing bonus as big as Manning and they were available on the open market for all the teams to bid on, but would teams really pick the unknown quantity over the proven star in open bidding. Doesn't seem rational.

Really just commenting that this year seems different. Carr and Palmer are well paid QB's but they weren't pushing the franchise number--Manning, Gallery, Winslow and Taylor are at or above the franchise numbers.
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Old 07-30-2004   #7
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The only one out of that group I woulnt mind springing for is Gallery.
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Old 07-30-2004   #8
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what the nfl (and really every pro sports league in the nation) needs to do is set the salary for rookies by pick...1st overall can only be paid such and such...2nd this much lower and so one from there...til you get to where they are earning rookie min and the signing bonuses change...and this should also be no matter what position as well...that way you don't have some rookie QB thinking he's god's gift to football and deserves more than a LT...what do ya'll think?
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Old 07-30-2004   #9
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Is is just me or is it crazy to pay a safety and a tight end who have never played in the NFL before that kind of money? And if Winslow turned down the same deal that Sean Taylor got, he's a jack*****. Is he wanting a contract like Manning got? Now that I think about it probably so, wasn't he saying awhile back he should be getting paid #1 pick money?
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Old 07-30-2004   #10
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The Browns are starting to negotiate through the media...

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/7538370
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Old 07-30-2004   #11
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Thanks for the link Fiddy...can anyone say INSANITY! What is this guys problem?!?!?!? I tell you what, I am calling the Brown's FO right now and tell them I will play as their starting TE for $250,000 a year...
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Old 07-30-2004   #12
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As much as the Browns really need KW, I can't see them backing down on their end. They may tweak the numbers based on how the incentives are reached, etc., but you just can't pay the lower pick more $$$.
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Old 07-30-2004   #13
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There is no way the NFL will set a certain dollar amount based on pick. **** would hit the fan. And the players coming into the league from college would go nuts. They would want the same thing everyone else got before them. Looks like there is no stopping them.
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Old 07-30-2004   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by disaacks3
As much as the Browns really need KW, I can't see them backing down on their end. They may tweak the numbers based on how the incentives are reached, etc., but you just can't pay the lower pick more $$$.
Think about it, if the browns offered KW #5 money in the 1st meeting they'll likely offer more in another week considering how much they need him. It might look like he's greedy to the brown fans, but half of them don't like him anyway. Also the dispute might not be on money but on the length of the contract.
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Old 07-30-2004   #15
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The Browns are a mess with Butch Davis running the show.
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Old 07-31-2004   #16
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They have replaced the Bengals as the laughing stock of Ohio.
Hear that many are predicting the Browns to be the cellar dwellers this season.
And it sure is looking pretty bleak right now.
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Old 07-31-2004   #17
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who cares what the college kids these days want in money...if the nfl was smart they would step in set the salary limit so there would be no rookie hold outs...it would also keep a lot of the juniors in college ball til their senior year...knowing they'll get more money next year...the players can complain all they want but this should be a time for what's best for the club and the fans not the players...they're rookies never played a down of nfl ball...when their first contract is up then they can go for the mega bucks like payton and mcnabb
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Old 07-31-2004   #18
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I like how the salary rules work, remember no contracts are gaurunteed, and a decent number of high picks bust so it adds up.
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Old 07-31-2004   #19
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It's obvious. The man just doesn't want to play for this team. You could tell on draft day by the look on his face.
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Old 07-31-2004   #20
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Winslow "Bang"

rippin' on the Postons ... http://footballguys.com/04bang_negotiation.htm
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