Keep DC and Draft VY

[Tex-fan0604]

I think the Texans should just keep DC this year to see if Kubiak can really get him polished,you never know he might turn out like D.Brees.Draft VY Let him learn the offense and if DC really shows he can be the right guy for the Texans then you Can trade VY next season and still get a lot for him .If DC does ok but not great then we can trade him after the season and get more value for him and take less of a cap hit.

[cadahnic]

Dude we would be looking at 55M to spend on VY and an 8M or 5.5M bonus on Carr. That is alot of money tied up in the QB spot to wait and see. I think the organization will make a choice one or the other.

[kbourda]

Originally Posted by cadahnic

Dude we would be looking at 55M to spend on VY and an 8M or 5.5M bonus on Carr. That is alot of money tied up in the QB spot to wait and see. I think the organization will make a choice one or the other.

You're looking at the same kind of money at the RB position as well. And that postion really doesn't need as much help at all.

[MorKnolle]

Originally Posted by kbourda

You're looking at the same kind of money at the RB position as well. And that postion really doesn't need as much help at all.

Bush wouldn't get as much money as Vince, Davis is getting less than Carr (about the same total but spread out over more years so less per year), and Bush and Davis can at least both be on the field at the same time. That is still a lot of money in one position either way, and to me neither of those positions are of great need for us, those are two big reasons why myself and cada are in the trade down camp.

In addition, Young would likely get about a $15-18 million signing bonus as the #1 pick, so trading him after next year would cost us $12.5-15 million against the cap next year, and trading Carr then would still cost $5.7 million against the cap if we go that route.

[kbourda]

Originally Posted by MorKnolle

Bush wouldn't get as much money as Vince, Davis is getting less than Carr (about the same total but spread out over more years so less per year), and Bush and Davis can at least both be on the field at the same time. That is still a lot of money in one position either way, and to me neither of those positions are of great need for us, those are two big reasons why myself and cada are in the trade down camp.

In addition, Young would likely get about a $15-18 million signing bonus as the #1 pick, so trading him after next year would cost us $12.5-15 million against the cap next year, and trading Carr then would still cost $5.7 million against the cap if we go that route.

That is some serious skrilla!

[Tha_Tinman]

Originally Posted by cadahnic

Dude we would be looking at 55M to spend on VY and an 8M or 5.5M bonus on Carr. That is alot of money tied up in the QB spot to wait and see. I think the organization will make a choice one or the other.

Remember when the 49ers were good? They had Montana, Young, AND that other guy ...Jeff Garcia ...all on the roster at once ...and all with huge contracts. They played Montana ...let Young and Garcia develop ...then eventually dealt Montana.

[kbourda]

Originally Posted by MorKnolle

Bush wouldn't get as much money as Vince, Davis is getting less than Carr (about the same total but spread out over more years so less per year), and Bush and Davis can at least both be on the field at the same time. That is still a lot of money in one position either way, and to me neither of those positions are of great need for us, those are two big reasons why myself and cada are in the trade down camp.

In addition, Young would likely get about a $15-18 million signing bonus as the #1 pick, so trading him after next year would cost us $12.5-15 million against the cap next year, and trading Carr then would still cost $5.7 million against the cap if we go that route.

So you think if Bush (and for the record he more than likely is the choice at #1) is the #1 pick you think that he'll make less money than VY who might be drafted below him? You're right, the money will be in either position so its neither here or there.

[cadahnic]

Yes I remember. Look into that cap and the status of the CBA back then though. Also, I am not a big fan of taking either VY or Bush, but whichever the Texans feel will help them win is fine by me. Either way it is gonna be some serious cash paid out.

[Kaiser Toro]

92 Montana left 49ers. Salary Cap insituted in 1993. Coincidence?

[cadahnic]

thanks KT for bringing that info to light, I think many people dont remember the teams back then having a lot of stars because they could afford to pay them. The Niners of the 80's bought championships and every star that hit FA wanted to go there cause they could get paid and win rings.

[Tex-fan0604]

Originally Posted by Tha_Tinman

Remember when the 49ers were good? They had Montana, Young, AND that other guy ...Jeff Garcia ...all on the roster at once ...and all with huge contracts. They played Montana ...let Young and Garcia develop ...then eventually dealt Montana.

I agree with you I just dont see why we cant keep both for one year either way we are going to lose some money.

[SteelBlueToro]

Originally Posted by Tex-fan0604

I agree with you I just dont see why we cant keep both for one year either way we are going to lose some money.

This makes no business sense at all.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by MorKnolle

Bush wouldn't get as much money as Vince

Where is there any evidence for this assertion? Can you name a RB who was paid less on their 1st contract than a QB taken after him? Safeties and TE's are at the low end of the NFL pay scale--nonetheless Winslow and Taylor were paid commensurate to their draft position, not their play position. Neither the Texans nor their fans should plan on a RB discount if Bush is taken.

[kbourda]

Originally Posted by SteelBlueToro

This makes no business sense at all.

Yeah you tell em, Toro!

signed Tony Boselli & Benny Joppru

[MorKnolle]

Originally Posted by Tha_Tinman

Remember when the 49ers were good? They had Montana, Young, AND that other guy ...Jeff Garcia ...all on the roster at once ...and all with huge contracts. They played Montana ...let Young and Garcia develop ...then eventually dealt Montana.

Garcia was never on the 49ers with Joe Montana, his first season was 1999, long after Montana went to the Chiefs and then retired, for that matter Garcia barely overlapped with Steve Young. The third guy behind Young and Montana was Steve Bono, and as cada pointed out, there was no salary cap back then so teams could pay guys whatever they wanted like in baseball today.

[MorKnolle]

Originally Posted by kbourda

So you think if Bush (and for the record he more than likely is the choice at #1) is the #1 pick you think that he'll make less money than VY who might be drafted below him? You're right, the money will be in either position so its neither here or there.

Originally Posted by infantrycak

Where is there any evidence for this assertion? Can you name a RB who was paid less on their 1st contract than a QB taken after him? Safeties and TE's are at the low end of the NFL pay scale--nonetheless Winslow and Taylor were paid commensurate to their draft position, not their play position. Neither the Texans nor their fans should plan on a RB discount if Bush is taken.

I meant (and thought I had said, but looking back I can see where the confusion developed. Since I was talking about the cap situation for our team I assumed you'd realize I meant Bush vs. Vince being picked #1 by us) that Bush being picked #1 will get paid less money than Vince getting picked #1. Vince at #3 will be about the same or probably a little less than Bush at #1. QBs are the highest paid position in the NFL, so a QB will get paid more than a RB if they are picked at the same position in the draft.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by MorKnolle

I meant (and thought I had said, but looking back I can see where the confusion developed. Since I was talking about the cap situation for our team I assumed you'd realize I meant Bush vs. Vince being picked #1 by us) that Bush being picked #1 will get paid less money than Vince getting picked #1. Vince at #3 will be about the same or probably a little less than Bush at #1. QBs are the highest paid position in the NFL, so a QB will get paid more than a RB if they are picked at the same position in the draft.

The problem is there is zero evidence for that assertion. In the last 5+ years, draft picks have been paid virtually lock step across the board, i.e. everyone gets in between the guy above and guy below them. Sean Taylor ($7.2 mil signing bonus on contract worth up to $40 mil), for example did not receive less money than Roy Williams (taken 2 positions later as in your #1 to #3 hypo--$6.6 mil signing bonus on a contract worth up to $27 mil) although Roy played a position which is much higher paid--in fact, the disparity between the pay of safeties and WR's in greater than the disparity between RB's and QB's. If you have any examples with actual facts I would love to see them.

[kbourda]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

The problem is there is zero evidence for that assertion. In the last 5+ years, draft picks have been paid virtually lock step across the board, i.e. everyone gets in between the guy above and guy below them. Sean Taylor ($7.2 mil signing bonus on contract worth up to $40 mil), for example did not receive less money than Roy Williams (taken 2 positions later as in your #1 to #3 hypo--$6.6 mil signing bonus on a contract worth up to $27 mil) although Roy played a position which is much higher paid--in fact, the disparity between the pay of safeties and WR's in greater than the disparity between RB's and QB's. If you have any examples with actual facts I would love to see them.

Good point.

[MorKnolle]

Originally Posted by infantrycak

The problem is there is zero evidence for that assertion. In the last 5+ years, draft picks have been paid virtually lock step across the board, i.e. everyone gets in between the guy above and guy below them. Sean Taylor ($7.2 mil signing bonus on contract worth up to $40 mil), for example did not receive less money than Roy Williams (taken 2 positions later as in your #1 to #3 hypo--$6.6 mil signing bonus on a contract worth up to $27 mil) although Roy played a position which is much higher paid--in fact, the disparity between the pay of safeties and WR's in greater than the disparity between RB's and QB's. If you have any examples with actual facts I would love to see them.

Look at the salaries for all the players in the league. QBs are easily the highest on average. Obviously 7 of the last 8 #1 overalls have been QBs and we haven't had a RB drafted #1 overall since before the salary cap came into play so we can't look at how #1 RBs are paid, but since QBs on the whole are paid more than RBs, it stands to reason that a QB drafted #1 will be viewed as a more valuable player and demand a higher salary. I think, going from the current trends, that Vince (or Leinart) will command a contract in the range of $52-55 million (higher than Eli and Alex Smith), while Bush will probably be more like $48-50 million (about the same as Eli and Alex Smith). Of course that is just speculation at this point, but QBs are undeniably the highest paid position in the NFL so chances are very great that a QB drafted at #1 will have higher market value than a RB at #1, of course contract negotiations will also depend on the player's perceived value of himself and how stingy of an agent he has along with what team he goes to, but it is still reasonable to say that a QB is going to get paid more than a RB.

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by MorKnolle

Of course that is just speculation at this point

So there are no examples of 1st time contracts fitting this hypothesis that you know of? Seriously, would any agent worth his salt give in to this kind of speculation without a single concrete example? This is a recipe for a hold out disaster IMO.

but QBs are undeniably the highest paid position in the NFL so chances are very great that a QB drafted at #1 will have higher market value than a RB at #1

Here is where your theory breaks apart--you are mixing in free agency and 2nd and 3rd contracts. That is simply using apples to try to judge oranges. As you can see from my safety and WR example, market value for subsequent contracts does not determine the value of 1st time contracts to displace draft position. QB's have not been promoted over their draft position on 1st time contracts in the last few years.

FYI--last year the franchise tag number for CB's (the average of the highest 5 players at the position) was 800k more than for QB's, but yes QB's are generally the highest paid players.