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Old 02-07-2006   #1
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Default The one thing that ALL playoff teams had in common..

Cinncinattie had a great offense but an average at best defense.
Washington had a great defense but their passing game held them back.
Chicago had an amazing defense but their offense was one of the worst.
Carolina had a good offense and defense.
Indianapolis had the best offense and a decent defense.
Pittsburg and Seatle were solid on both sides of the ball.
Jacksonville was decent on both offense and defense.
The one thing they all had in common was....
A great offensive line.

All of the teams above have probowlers and superstars playing on both sides of the ball. Big names are a great thing to have on your team. They bring media coverage and national hype that every city loves to have. None of these teams would of made it where they were without being strong in the trenches. Without an above average offensive line you will not be a superbowl contender. As a Texan fan maybe I'm looking into this too much. What I see in our team is a lot of talent on both sides of the ball except where it matters most.... Offensive line. Last season our group of protectors were suposed to "gel" and progress as a unit. This did not happen. I never forsaw us having the first pick. As great as it would be to have a Reggie Bush or Vince Young on our team neither would be able to be the game breaker they could be without some big uglies up front doing the dirty work for them. There might not be another Young or Bush that comes along in the draft but that doesnt matter. If we can dominate up front we will be able to dominate on the score board. We must address our most pressing needs and that is O Line, D Line and linebacker. If we dont construct our team from the inside out this time around there will be another group of Pink Soap's.. but this time it will be the "Fire Kubiak Club"... which is the last thing I want to see.
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Old 02-07-2006   #2
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Well, Denver, Indy, and Carolina's offensive lines looked suspect when they faced off against Pittsburgh, and Seattle. B'sides, I don't think anyone is saying that an O'line isn't needed, or that we should ignore the wholes on the line. Most, are just saying that the Draft isn't the only, or even the best way to fix the line. Personally, I think our current line can't be all bad. There is no way CC, Capers, & crew could miss 5 out of 5 times, and that's not including the backups. I personally think Gary Kubiak should be able to find at least three real starters out of our current stable.... enough to put together a solid left side. The right side, he may have to go into the draft, or free agency. Since FA comes before the draft, I think it should be addressed there, and it's pre-mature to try to fix the line with the draft now..... after FA, many of us may very well change our minds about what we should do with the first pick.

I know it isn't a popular idea, but I also wouldn't worry too much about our secondary, until we know what we are going to do with the front 7. Once again, I think we should stay in the 3-4, upgrade an inside linebacker, and a tackle. If we can get some serious pressure on the Offensive line, our corners are going to shine..... I think Babino, especially, and Peek to some degree are ready to make some noise at OLB, if we can get a DT to garner a little attention, these two are going to mop up.

again, we've got a number of options in Free Agency, most of my needs can be handled before the draft. I'd like to see a QB, a defensive menace(DT, LB), and a tightend taken in this draft, in that order. our subsequent picks, would be used for depth at OL, and defensive secondary...
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Old 02-07-2006   #3
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Yeah, that's something that's always made perfect sense to me. Firing the head coach because the offensive line sucks.

Hey, can the guy who constructed the "Fire Capers Club" pink soap avatar, modify it to say "Fire Kubiak Club"?

I'm in one of those "rub your nose in it" kind of moods today.
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Old 02-07-2006   #4
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Wow thunderkyss we are pretty much going for the lose method huh. Just kidding man, I understand your thought, but I think it may be skewed a bit. DT is not a need whatever defense we are in, QB is not a need unless you want a cheaper veteran to replace Banks, I personally like the 34 alot and that could just be because I played in it, but if we switch to a 43 which are players feel more comfortable in I dont mind that either.
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Old 02-07-2006   #5
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Originally Posted by cadahnic
Wow thunderkyss we are pretty much going for the lose method huh. Just kidding man, I understand your thought, but I think it may be skewed a bit. DT is not a need whatever defense we are in, QB is not a need unless you want a cheaper veteran to replace Banks, I personally like the 34 alot and that could just be because I played in it, but if we switch to a 43 which are players feel more comfortable in I dont mind that either.

well, it may be a backwards way of thinking about it, but I think a strong DT will make the rest of the defense shine. If he's playing the gap, and requires a double team.....we gave up more yards/game to the run than any team in the league. In the 3-4, if I'm not mistaken, Run-D starts at DT right?? those are the guys on either side of your NT right??

QB.... hmmmm..... If we're looking for a QB two years from now, then we need to draft one in particular right now. I hope you are right, and for me that means that David will take us to the AFC Championship game in 3-4 years. if he doesn't, I'm going to say I was right, and we should have drafted a QB in 2005. But that's neither here nor there..
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Old 02-07-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKnockTexan
Cinncinattie had a great offense but an average at best defense.
Washington had a great defense but their passing game held them back.
Chicago had an amazing defense but their offense was one of the worst.
Carolina had a good offense and defense.
Indianapolis had the best offense and a decent defense.
Pittsburg and Seatle were solid on both sides of the ball.
Jacksonville was decent on both offense and defense.
The one thing they all had in common was....
A great offensive line.

All of the teams above have probowlers and superstars playing on both sides of the ball. Big names are a great thing to have on your team. They bring media coverage and national hype that every city loves to have. None of these teams would of made it where they were without being strong in the trenches. Without an above average offensive line you will not be a superbowl contender. As a Texan fan maybe I'm looking into this too much. What I see in our team is a lot of talent on both sides of the ball except where it matters most.... Offensive line. Last season our group of protectors were suposed to "gel" and progress as a unit. This did not happen. I never forsaw us having the first pick. As great as it would be to have a Reggie Bush or Vince Young on our team neither would be able to be the game breaker they could be without some big uglies up front doing the dirty work for them. There might not be another Young or Bush that comes along in the draft but that doesnt matter. If we can dominate up front we will be able to dominate on the score board. We must address our most pressing needs and that is O Line, D Line and linebacker. If we dont construct our team from the inside out this time around there will be another group of Pink Soap's.. but this time it will be the "Fire Kubiak Club"... which is the last thing I want to see.
Cincy's defense led the NFL with 31 interceptions and Jacksonville's offensive line wasn't that great, they allowed 47 sacks last season.
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Old 02-07-2006   #7
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Originally Posted by Marcus
Yeah, that's something that's always made perfect sense to me. Firing the head coach because the offensive line sucks.
I think Mr. McNair fired Capers because the team went 2-14. I never heard even a mention of specific reasons, and this includes the offensive line.

Besides, what Texans head coach was a part of choosing those specific players?

The fact of the matter is that the 2-14 Texans have a LOT more problems than just the o-line. The line is a good place to start, but that in itself won't magically turn things around until we address quite a few other areas of need, as well.

And finally, the "Fire Capers Club" never materialized until Capers was into his fourth season, and only after it was quite clear to most fans that he had completely lost control of the leadership of the team. And what started off as an inside joke (Herv's avatar) quickly snowballed into a full fledge fan revolt. Losing will do that to a team, and losing bad (like no lead at any point in the first six games) will do it even quicker.

Face it, the team that Dom built just plain sucked. He deserved to be fired.
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Old 02-07-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKnockTexan
Cinncinattie had a great offense but an average at best defense.
Washington had a great defense but their passing game held them back.
Chicago had an amazing defense but their offense was one of the worst.
Carolina had a good offense and defense.
Indianapolis had the best offense and a decent defense.
Pittsburg and Seatle were solid on both sides of the ball.
Jacksonville was decent on both offense and defense.
The one thing they all had in common was....
A great offensive line.

All of the teams above have probowlers and superstars playing on both sides of the ball. Big names are a great thing to have on your team. They bring media coverage and national hype that every city loves to have. None of these teams would of made it where they were without being strong in the trenches. Without an above average offensive line you will not be a superbowl contender. As a Texan fan maybe I'm looking into this too much. What I see in our team is a lot of talent on both sides of the ball except where it matters most.... Offensive line. Last season our group of protectors were suposed to "gel" and progress as a unit. This did not happen. I never forsaw us having the first pick. As great as it would be to have a Reggie Bush or Vince Young on our team neither would be able to be the game breaker they could be without some big uglies up front doing the dirty work for them. There might not be another Young or Bush that comes along in the draft but that doesnt matter. If we can dominate up front we will be able to dominate on the score board. We must address our most pressing needs and that is O Line, D Line and linebacker. If we dont construct our team from the inside out this time around there will be another group of Pink Soap's.. but this time it will be the "Fire Kubiak Club"... which is the last thing I want to see.
We can dissect this six ways to Sunday and would be hard pressed to find an answer or dispute anyones take on what separates them from the pack. That does not mean that I do not have my own spin on it though. Those teams in my eye have an identity or leaders that we can point to that drive their success. We have not had them other than Glenn and Sharper in the past. This year I had no idea who spoke for this team - players, coaches, FO, etc. It is disheartening to have to take a wait and see approach, but hoepfully Kubiak will fill that deadspace.
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Old 02-07-2006   #9
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I think that we need to fix both sides of the line, O-Line is a must, give Carr protection, as for D'Line, by pressuring the opposing QB, then it allows our secondary to make a few gambles and try different things and that could be the difference maker
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Old 02-07-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
Yeah, that's something that's always made perfect sense to me. Firing the head coach because the offensive line sucks.

Hey, can the guy who constructed the "Fire Capers Club" pink soap avatar, modify it to say "Fire Kubiak Club"?

I'm in one of those "rub your nose in it" kind of moods today.
...if Caper's wasn't in charge of the team as head coach, who was?
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Old 02-07-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKnockTexan
Cinncinattie had a great offense but an average at best defense.
Washington had a great defense but their passing game held them back.
Chicago had an amazing defense but their offense was one of the worst.
Carolina had a good offense and defense.
Indianapolis had the best offense and a decent defense.
Pittsburg and Seatle were solid on both sides of the ball.
Jacksonville was decent on both offense and defense.
The one thing they all had in common was....
A great offensive line.

All of the teams above have probowlers and superstars playing on both sides of the ball. Big names are a great thing to have on your team. They bring media coverage and national hype that every city loves to have. None of these teams would of made it where they were without being strong in the trenches. Without an above average offensive line you will not be a superbowl contender. As a Texan fan maybe I'm looking into this too much. What I see in our team is a lot of talent on both sides of the ball except where it matters most.... Offensive line. Last season our group of protectors were suposed to "gel" and progress as a unit. This did not happen. I never forsaw us having the first pick. As great as it would be to have a Reggie Bush or Vince Young on our team neither would be able to be the game breaker they could be without some big uglies up front doing the dirty work for them. There might not be another Young or Bush that comes along in the draft but that doesnt matter. If we can dominate up front we will be able to dominate on the score board. We must address our most pressing needs and that is O Line, D Line and linebacker. If we dont construct our team from the inside out this time around there will be another group of Pink Soap's.. but this time it will be the "Fire Kubiak Club"... which is the last thing I want to see.
I think this is a very valid point. The best WR in the league, accoring to most people, was sitting at home watching the playoffs, LT, Larry Johnson, Drew Brees (Prow Bowl QB), Brett Favre, Mike Vick, etc.. all of these guys are dominant at their positions, also know as the skill positions, all of thses guys watched the playoffs from home. Name a team with a dominant player or two that didnt make the playoffs, easy. Name a team with a dominant O-line, not so easy. I cant think of any...that goes to show you something....
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Old 02-07-2006   #12
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Originally Posted by thunderkyss
Personally, I think our current line can't be all bad.
It IS that bad.

Unfortunately Chester "false start" Pitts is the best lineman we have. He was like the what? The 50th pick? I'm sure we have some linemen that were taken as 160th picks or worse. What should we expect? Greatness?

Bottom line, the offensive line is and has always been a low priority for Charlie Casserly and until we START working on the line, we will always be 4-5 years away from having a decent team. It's a shame that we were cursed with the #1 overall pick, because it gives us yet another excuse for not doing the right thing.

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Old 02-07-2006   #13
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Originally Posted by Erratic Assassin
It IS that bad.

Unfortunately Chester "false start" Pitts is the best lineman we have. He was like the what? The 50th pick? I'm sure we have some linemen that were taken as 160th picks or worse pick. What should we expect? Greatness?

Bottom line, the offensive line is and has always been a low priority for Charlie Casserly and until we START working on the line, we will always be 4-5 years away from having a decent team. It's a shame that we were cursed with the #1 overall pick, because it gives us yet another excuse for not doing the right thing.
Watch out, they are about to pounce on you about how Denver's O-line has only one 1st rounder. What they will neglect to mention is that over 25 teams in the NFL have LT's from the first round, something we seem to be lacking..hmm...
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Old 02-07-2006   #14
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Originally Posted by Erratic Assassin
It IS that bad.

Unfortunately Chester "false start" Pitts is the best lineman we have. He was like the what? The 50th pick? I'm sure we have some linemen that were taken as 160th picks or worse. What should we expect? Greatness?

Bottom line, the offensive line is and has always been a low priority for Charlie Casserly and until we START working on the line, we will always be 4-5 years away from having a decent team. It's a shame that we were cursed with the #1 overall pick, because it gives us yet another excuse for not doing the right thing.
While I agree that we do need help on the Oline, I also agree w/ Thunderkyss that w/ proper coaching our current players will be a LOT better. Do you find it interesting that McKinney, Wiegert, and Wade all had decent stats before they came to Houston? Once they were here....straight downhill. Kind of like McCree once he left the Texans.

Take McKinney for instance:
(before Houston)...avg. sacks p/yr-1.88
(w/ Houston)......avg. sacks p/yr-4.63

Chester "False Start" Pitts? While he did have quite a few in '03 and '04, he only had ONE this past year. Give the man a break...at least he's improving, which is more than I can say for some of our other players....QB?
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Old 02-07-2006   #15
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Originally Posted by run-david-run
I think this is a very valid point. The best WR in the league, accoring to most people, was sitting at home watching the playoffs, LT, Larry Johnson, Drew Brees (Prow Bowl QB), Brett Favre, Mike Vick, etc.. all of these guys are dominant at their positions, also know as the skill positions, all of thses guys watched the playoffs from home. Name a team with a dominant player or two that didnt make the playoffs, easy. Name a team with a dominant O-line, not so easy. I cant think of any...that goes to show you something....
People talk about Seattle's offensive line, but the absolute best offensive line in football was at home this year: The Kansas City Chiefs'.

You think Larry Johnson is just that much of a beast? Not a chance. He is very good, but his line is amazing. Before Alexander had the record it belonged to Priest Holmes. He also got to run behind Roaf, Waters, Wiegmann, and Shields... all of whom could go to the probowl in any given year (John Welborn is pretty good too if you haven't heard).

...and Jacksonville was in the playoffs and their line is very suspect. I do agree with your assessment that the O-line is deathly important, but it alone does not constitute success. Football is two things: blocking and tackling. The Chiefs can block better than pretty much anyone (in all phases of the game... you think Dante Hall does it by himself?), but they can't tackle worth a hoot. If you really want a good assessment of playoff teams you will see they all block and tackle well (and all the little intangibles that go with blocking and tackling). Those TWO things are the beat-all, end-all qualities for success in football.
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Old 02-08-2006   #16
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Originally Posted by Erratic Assassin
It IS that bad.

Unfortunately Chester "false start" Pitts is the best lineman we have. He was like the what? The 50th pick? I'm sure we have some linemen that were taken as 160th picks or worse. What should we expect? Greatness?

Bottom line, the offensive line is and has always been a low priority for Charlie Casserly and until we START working on the line, we will always be 4-5 years away from having a decent team. It's a shame that we were cursed with the #1 overall pick, because it gives us yet another excuse for not doing the right thing.
I dont know Casserly's entire draft history preTexans but I do remember him drafting Chris Samuals in the first round... so I really dont believe O Line is at the bottom of his priority sheet when looking at the draft and free agency.
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Old 02-08-2006   #17
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Originally Posted by run-david-run
I think this is a very valid point. The best WR in the league, accoring to most people, was sitting at home watching the playoffs, LT, Larry Johnson, Drew Brees (Prow Bowl QB), Brett Favre, Mike Vick, etc.. all of these guys are dominant at their positions, also know as the skill positions, all of thses guys watched the playoffs from home. Name a team with a dominant player or two that didnt make the playoffs, easy. Name a team with a dominant O-line, not so easy. I cant think of any...that goes to show you something....

Doesn't Kansas City have a few probowlers on their offensive line??
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Old 02-11-2006   #18
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Originally Posted by Apoch
People talk about Seattle's offensive line, but the absolute best offensive line in football was at home this year: The Kansas City Chiefs'.

You think Larry Johnson is just that much of a beast? Not a chance. He is very good, but his line is amazing. Before Alexander had the record it belonged to Priest Holmes. He also got to run behind Roaf, Waters, Wiegmann, and Shields... all of whom could go to the probowl in any given year (John Welborn is pretty good too if you haven't heard).

...and Jacksonville was in the playoffs and their line is very suspect. I do agree with your assessment that the O-line is deathly important, but it alone does not constitute success. Football is two things: blocking and tackling. The Chiefs can block better than pretty much anyone (in all phases of the game... you think Dante Hall does it by himself?), but they can't tackle worth a hoot. If you really want a good assessment of playoff teams you will see they all block and tackle well (and all the little intangibles that go with blocking and tackling). Those TWO things are the beat-all, end-all qualities for success in football.
Yep, the Chief's sure cant tackle. In fact, they missed tackles all the way to not allowing a 100 yard rusher in 15 consectuive games.
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Old 02-11-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thunderkyss
Doesn't Kansas City have a few probowlers on their offensive line??
Ok, i made a mistake with KC, completly slipped my mind, but they finished 10-6! Also, most of their loses came when Roaf was out and he completely changed their offense, because Gonzalez had to stay in and block. Once he came back, they took off. That goes to show even more how much an imapct not just an O-line makes, but a dominant LT...cough, cough, draft D'Brick..cough, cough...
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Old 02-11-2006   #20
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Originally Posted by HardKnockTexan
"Fire Kubiak Club"... which is the last thing I want to see.
Already, I wouldn't mind seeing it. His penchant for nepotism in hiring assistants who are just as inexperienced at their jobs as he is ensures that the Texans won't go anywhere fast. After two seasons, Kubiak will have earned a ticket out of here. Only problem is, it won't happen because McNair gave him a five-year contract. So we are doomed to four very, very poor seasons until McNair can swallow the final year of his contract. There are going to be a lot of hard, hard times in Reliant Stadium coming up. The only good thing about it will be that, unlike with Capers, expectations will get to the point where they are so low that it will take very little for Kubiak to exceed them. After all, after he finishes 3-13 or 4-12 this coming season, all he has to do is go 5-11 and claim he improved the team. Then the following year, he can go 6-10 and do the same.
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