Bush/Young Question

[TJFord]

I know, I know, I know. There are already a zillion threads dedicated to this topic, but what can one more hurt? What I want to know is who you all want and how many times you have seen each of these guys. I just get the feeling from reading the posts on this board that few people from the Young camp have watched a lot of Bush and few from the Bush camp have seen a lot of VY. Anyway, to kick it off I am in the VY camp. I have seen every game of his since the state championship four or five years ago. I have only seen Bush play in 5 or 6 games.

[Corrosion]

I think they are Both going to be Fantastic in the NFL .... Im glad I dont have to make the decision .... Ive watched just about every UT game for the last Decade or more.... Seen probably 18-20 USC games in the past 3 seasons ..... Its a toss up to me at this point , Neither play a position of REAL need for the Texans .... Although I think both would be a huge help in the long run .

Dont ask me to pick one over the other .... at this point I just cant pick a winner ...

[kbourda]

Originally Posted by TJFord

I know, I know, I know. There are already a zillion threads dedicated to this topic, but what can one more hurt? What I want to know is who you all want and how many times you have seen each of these guys. I just get the feeling from reading the posts on this board that few people from the Young camp have watched a lot of Bush and few from the Bush camp have seen a lot of VY. Anyway, to kick it off I am in the VY camp. I have seen every game of his since the state championship four or five years ago. I have only seen Bush play in 5 or 6 games.

This is a very good question. I always wondered that myself. I watch a ton of college football (if you ask me it's a better game than the pros). I've seen Bush play a bunch. Probably as much as I have seen Vincent in college. Man, the reason no one is responding to this is because the Bush die hards have just heard how good he is and not really seen him play. Bush is good. Vincent is good.

[stevo3883]

yeah its true. Lots of the people here are NFL fans first and foremost. they rely on ESPN highlights or newspaper articles for their college info.

Ive had people tell me Carr is as fast as VY. Ive heard people say DD is as fast as bush. Ive seen someone say they didnt know who VY was until the rose bowl...

I LOVE college football. my favorite sport #1 no questions. i love the texans. i have season tickets to both the texans and horns, and i cheer for them both.

I love good football. I watched every USC game that was on this year, and most from last. and god knows ive seen every UT game for the past 10 years.

[TJFord]

Yeah, after reading how VY was only a slighly better scrambler than Carr in another thread I had to ask this question. I, like many others, have watched all of UT's games for the past nine or ten years and what we saw in the Rose Bowl is what VY did in almost EVERY game. He might not have had the total yards or as many TDs in every game but he WAS the reason they won most every game. Anyway, I hope to find out how the amount of times you've seen each play correllates to who you want.

[BlueThunder]

I think there both game changers but taking a RB #1 is like playing russian rulette.That pick scares me because Bush is so thin.He's like picking a utility back at #1.I don't think he's a 20 carry back....I've watched both enough to know what they can do...I would feel safer taking Muarice Drew late,,or Andra Hall....Lets wait for the combine!Try Vince Young at WR at the combine...If he was WR he would probably be top.I just don't see Vince busting or have injury as much as a Micheal Vick.Vince is big strong and can break arm tackles..He's my pick hands down and I would start him..I would scale the offense down to help him.He's going to be great back there scrambling every time they go into coverage..Thats all i'm going to say,i'll let you guys decide..

[chuckm]

found this at Ourlads ... http://www.ourlads.com/2006NFLMockDraft.html


Reggie Bush

All the adjectives - electrifying, explosive, elusive, instinctive, fluid, flexible, outstanding vision, excellent body control, sure hands, rare burst, and toughness. A multitask back that will keep defensive coordinators up at night and new coach, Gary Kubiak using him in creative ways.

Vince Young

A rare athlete that makes plays with his legs. In the NFL you make plays as a QB with your arm. Young hasn't demonstrated that he can read complex defenses or complete a pass through a small window of opportunity. Will a team invest the third pick and millions of dollars in a developmental quarterback that may not be ready until he is eligible for free agency? A top five athlete should not be confused with a top five position player. The Titans need players. If they can't do a deal to move up to take Matt Leinart they may trade down and pick up more picks..that is, if they decide to pass on Young.

[thunderkyss]

My brother-in-law is big on College football. I try to stay away from it... my Sundays are totally consumed by Church,and Football. If I was into the NCAA, I wouldn't get anything done on weekends.

That said, he threw a shindig for the RoseBowl 2004. After watching that game, I made a point to watch every UT game this year. Jamaal Charles is from Pt Arthur, and more or less went to the same highschool, so that was another draw...

When everyone figured we'd be in the top 2 or 3 picks in the draft, I was kinda upset, that Vince wasn't going to be in the draft...... now look where we're at.

I've seen two games Reggie has been in. The Rose Bowl, and I think the UCLA game (did they play Cal??) anyway, I did expect more out of him in the RoseBowl, but I'm not ragging on Bush or anything. I just think it is silly that the Texans would draft another Running Back. The only knock I see on DD, is that he gets hurt. I don't think it is uncommon for RB to be hurt there first couple of seasons in the NFL...... I also think our OLine had something to do with it. But with Wells and Morency, it's really more of a non issue. DD might not break the Big one, and threaten to score every time he touches the ball, but he can very well get you a first down everytime he gets the ball. If defenses don't respect that, then we need to use that to our advantage.

I've got nothing at all, against Bush....

[kbourda]

Originally Posted by chuckm

found this at Ourlads ... http://www.ourlads.com/2006NFLMockDraft.html


Reggie Bush

All the adjectives - electrifying, explosive, elusive, instinctive, fluid, flexible, outstanding vision, excellent body control, sure hands, rare burst, and toughness. A multitask back that will keep defensive coordinators up at night and new coach, Gary Kubiak using him in creative ways.

Vince Young

A rare athlete that makes plays with his legs. In the NFL you make plays as a QB with your arm. Young hasn't demonstrated that he can read complex defenses or complete a pass through a small window of opportunity. Will a team invest the third pick and millions of dollars in a developmental quarterback that may not be ready until he is eligible for free agency? A top five athlete should not be confused with a top five position player. The Titans need players. If they can't do a deal to move up to take Matt Leinart they may trade down and pick up more picks..that is, if they decide to pass on Young.

Wow. If I never saw him play i'd think the guy was Tommy Fraizer. Absolutely wow! I see he was the only person in that entire list he took the time to add a little "extra" analysis. It blows my mind to see the great lengths that people are willing to go to make light of their opinion.

[MorKnolle]

Originally Posted by kbourda

Wow. If I never saw him play i'd think the guy was Tommy Fraizer. Absolutely wow! I see he was the only person in that entire list he took the time to add a little "extra" analysis. It blows my mind to see the great lengths that people are willing to go to make light of their opinion.

You have to do just as much digging to come up with some of these articles praising Vince for being the best QB in however many years as you do to find articles that point out his weaknesses and don't claim him to be all that. This particular article downgrades Vince quite a bit, but it's no more extreme than some of the pro-Vince stuff that's been thrown around.

[stevo3883]

Originally Posted by MorKnolle

You have to do just as much digging to come up with some of these articles praising Vince for being the best QB in however many years as you do to find articles that point out his weaknesses and don't claim him to be all that. This particular article downgrades Vince quite a bit, but it's no more extreme than some of the pro-Vince stuff that's been thrown around.

well, that guy has greenway rated ahead of aj hawk. so that just shows how much credibility he really has

[MorKnolle]

Originally Posted by stevo3883

well, that guy has greenway rated ahead of aj hawk. so that just shows how much credibility he really has

I can see that, I personally think Hawk is probably the better player and certainly has more hype, but Greenway is a little more physically imposing and I could see him going ahead of Hawk depending on what team was up there. I think a team running a 3-4 defense could take Greenway ahead of Hawk, but the highest one is the 49ers a #6/7 so I'm not sure if Hawk even falls to them to make that choice, and they have a ton of needs on their team anyways and could draft almost anything except a QB.

[stevo3883]

Originally Posted by MorKnolle

I can see that, I personally think Hawk is probably the better player and certainly has more hype, but Greenway is a little more physically imposing and I could see him going ahead of Hawk depending on what team was up there. I think a team running a 3-4 defense could take Greenway ahead of Hawk, but the highest one is the 49ers a #6/7 so I'm not sure if Hawk even falls to them to make that choice, and they have a ton of needs on their team anyways and could draft almost anything except a QB.

ok... seriously. Greenway is taller and that is it. Hawk is stronger, faster, and has better instincts. They arent even in the same galaxy as far as skills go. There is absolutely no possible way 0% never going to happen ill drop a bomb on my head chance that that happens.

I dont argue dumb stuff usually, but i PROMISE you no team would ever take any other LB over Hawk.

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by stevo3883

ok... seriously. Greenway is taller and that is it. Hawk is stronger, faster, and has better instincts. They arent even in the same galaxy as far as skills go. There is absolutely no possible way 0% never going to happen ill drop a bomb on my head chance that that happens.

I dont argue dumb stuff usually, but i PROMISE you no team would ever take any other LB over Hawk.

It's my understanding that there are many people in the NFL community that have Greenway ahead of Hawk. You don't need to worry about your broken promise though, it's understood.

[stevo3883]

Originally Posted by Vinny

It's my understanding that there are many people in the NFL community that have Greenway ahead of Hawk. You don't need to worry about your broken promise though, it's understood.

hold me to it. please

on draft day PLEEEEEEEEEEASE hold me to it.

[stevo3883]

this Hawk-Greenway seems too much like the Cutler-Young thing. Scouts find some guy and just start touting him up and up and up. Its never based on how they played, but usually on some minor charcteristic that one guy has that makes them go "wow hes better than X because he has Y!"

(Cutler is better than YOUNG because he has A QUICKER RELEASE)

(Greenway is better than Hawk because he has BETTER SIZE)

[kbourda]

Originally Posted by MorKnolle

You have to do just as much digging to come up with some of these articles praising Vince for being the best QB in however many years as you do to find articles that point out his weaknesses and don't claim him to be all that. This particular article downgrades Vince quite a bit, but it's no more extreme than some of the pro-Vince stuff that's been thrown around.

True. But to say "he makes plays with his feet"????? Really, am I the only guy to see that this analysis is completely unfair?

[Vinny]

Originally Posted by stevo3883

this Hawk-Greenway seems too much like the Cutler-Young thing. Scouts find some guy and just start touting him up and up and up. Its never based on how they played, but usually on some minor charcteristic that one guy has that makes them go "wow hes better than X because he has Y!"

(Cutler is better than YOUNG because he has A QUICKER RELEASE)

(Greenway is better than Hawk because he has BETTER SIZE)

Actually that is Forrest Gumpish and the entire evaluation process is really not that simple (obviously). I was talking about Cutler a long time ago myself and think he is a great prospect. He isn't a better prospect than Young though. I feel for anyone who thinks this and believes it.....I figure most of this kind of stuff is regurgitated spin myself.... Most of the people here only assume they "know" what "the scouts" are thinking. Most everything you see right now is high speculation and common rumor. When we watch the actual draft we will really know what everyone in the NFL community is thinking. The posturing is rampant now.

[kbourda]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Actually that is Forrest Gumpish and the entire evaluation process is really not that simple (obviously). I was talking about Cutler a long time ago myself and think he is a great prospect. He isn't a better prospect than Young though. I feel for anyone who thinks this and believes it.....I figure most of this kind of stuff is regurgitated spin myself.... Most of the people here only assume they "know" what "the scouts" are thinking. Most everything you see right now is high speculation and common rumor. When we watch the actual draft we will really know what everyone in the NFL community is thinking. The posturing is rampant now.

True that!

[infantrycak]

Originally Posted by Vinny

Most of the people here only assume they "know" what "the scouts" are thinking. Most everything you see right now is high speculation and common rumor. When we watch the actual draft we will really know what everyone in the NFL community is thinking. The posturing is rampant now.

It is hilarious to see the spread of "information" on the internet and then the certainty resulting from it--mainly in the draft and politics. 5 guys copying some other guy who didn't even watch game tape can all put out draft web-sites and all the sudden everyone agrees Reggie Young is the greatest player of all time. Regular MB posters like aj and the guys at hpf end up getting quoted on KFFL and elsewhere (not their fault) as if they have some connection or inside information on the Texans.