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Old 02-04-2006   #1
nunusguy
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Default Is Moon a "Dark Horse" for HOF election ?

""Warren influenced so many young African-American kids to play quarterback, and he also convinced a lot of coaches that African-American quarterbacks could be successful," said former Pittsburgh cornerback Rod Woodson, who played against Moon twice a season for seven years. "Also, this is a time I wish the voters would think outside the box, because, basically, Warren had to go to Canada to play the position he wanted to play, and he won five championships.
"Many players surveyed said they believe the obstacles Moon overcame because he was a black playing quarterback should weigh in his favor with voters."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/3635573.html
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Sorry, but I couldn't resist the pun. Clumsy, cliche riddled John McClain is at his not-so-suttle best as he plays the race card for all its worth in this story about getting Warren Moon into the HOF. I dunno....with McClain politicing so publicly for Moon in this fashion, I think it may be effective given the location of the SB this year and in part the timing factor for other elements.
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Old 02-04-2006   #2
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Moon's career stats stand up against Fouts without considering his years in Canada. What, and Air Coryell wasn't a gimmick offense? Moon was the best QB we've ever seen in Houston but his best year was arguably in '95 when he played for the Vikings. He belongs in the Hall even with the 3-7 playoff record. Once again, I'll offer up the name Bob Griese (and Fouts) as two good reasons why Moon should be included in that group - his "trailblazer" stuff notwithstanding.
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Old 02-04-2006   #3
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I think that Moon deserves to be a Hall of Famer based on his statistical accomplishments alone.

But why should the race part be ignored? Why shouldn't it be important that a player had a positive impact on the NFL and its future players?

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/6818787

Quote:
"I remember one game in Houston, we lost and my son Joshua came crying to my locker that people were calling me names and he didn't understand that," Moon said.
Quote:
"I think that there has been a revolution at that position so what once was a desert has turned into an incredible flowering of opportunity," sports agent Leigh Steinberg said. "Warren's success had an electrifying effect on the hopes and aspirations of thousands of young African-American athletes and he served as a symbol to a generation of young African-American athletes."
The voters are only allowed to look at on-the-field achievements, but that doesn't mean that the environment of the NFL at the time shouldn't mean something, IMO.
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Old 02-04-2006   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulip
But why should the race part be ignored? Why shouldn't it be important that a player had a positive impact on the NFL and its future players?

The voters are only allowed to look at on-the-field achievements, but that doesn't mean that the environment of the NFL at the time shouldn't mean something, IMO.
You answered your own question--it is supposed to be accomplishments as a player. Same as the debate with Madden going on right now with some saying he is the undoubted face of football with MNF and the Madden games and others saying you can only look at his coaching record. In any event, IMO both Moon and Madden deserve in for their own the field work.
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Old 02-04-2006   #5
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I think that both guys will eventually be there. Madden will likely get in due to his all-football character, but Moon will still be hurt by being that black qb that did more for the face of football in poor communities than what he did on the field. Madden also has a SB ring and the highest winning pct. of any coach so that coupled with is off-field stuff, there is no way the pundits dont let Madden in.
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Old 02-04-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach C.
I think that both guys will eventually be there. Madden will likely get in due to his all-football character, but Moon will still be hurt by being that black qb that did more for the face of football in poor communities than what he did on the field. Madden also has a SB ring and the highest winning pct. of any coach so that coupled with is off-field stuff, there is no way the pundits dont let Madden in.
I hope so. He hasn't coached for 28 years and so has been passed over 23 times. Heck, probably some of the folks voting hardly remember when he was a real coach. 10 years without a losing season, playoffs in 8 of 10 years and 1 SB--yeah, he should be in. Interesting tidbit from McClain (this is what he is good at, not analysis) was in talking to people from the Raiders they said Madden had a significant part in putting the team together not just coaching it--for example the front office didn't want Casper and he did.
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Old 02-04-2006   #7
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Yeah Madden in Oakland is bigger than Ditka in Chicago. I am somewhat suprised he never took a job as a GM, but he liked the other aspects of football past the coaching. Madden is one of those guys that wanted more to spread football than anything else. I have a great respect for the guy and what he has done.
As far as Moon I grew up watching this guy and he was the reason I played QB when I was little. He was all the kids in my part of Houston(South Park) had to really look up to at that position. He did alot for the community and football in general and is one of the main reasons the mighty VY took up being a QB. Now I ended up a RB/DB but that is not the point, Moon deserves it, because when you look at the HOF it is about Professional Football so you have to include the CFL.
On a sidenote cant wait till Dallas is up in arms about Irvin not getting in. I think he will be one of those players passed over a couple of times.
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Old 02-04-2006   #8
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It's not the NFL Hall of Fame, it's the PRO FOOTBALL Hall of Fame. Warren Moon should be a lock, for no PRO has ever thrown for more yards than Moon.
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Old 02-04-2006   #9
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Sadly, Moon wont make it this year. It is unfortunate, but he will not get enough votes. I think he will get in within the next 5 though.
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Old 02-04-2006   #10
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John McClain has said publicly that he WON'T use the race card when presenting Warren's case to the committee. He said he is afraid that if he does he will turn off some voters who want to only vote on merit only. Not that those voters are racist, but that they might feel like they HAVE to vote for him just because he was black.

I think with out a doubt Moon gets in. And I wouldn't be suprised to see him in this year. Although I'd almost rather see him go in next year so he won't have to go in with Aikman. If he does, he will be an after thought, especially in Texas.
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Old 02-04-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aj.
Moon's career stats stand up against Fouts without considering his years in Canada.
Exactly. That alone should get him in.

The fact that he won five CFL Championships, and the fact that the NFL would not accept a black QB when he was drafted, might not be a factor in HoF voting, but they should be considered when considering his greatness as a player. He would have probably had better stats than Marino if he played his entire career in the NFL.

If they don't vote him in, I'll believe the HoF voting process is almost as big of a joke as MLB's HoF.

Listening to Emmitt Smith and Joe Theisman on the Dan Patrick show really makes think the entire process is whack. Why don't HoF members get a vote, anyway?

People like Peter King have way too much power in the voting process.
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Old 02-04-2006   #12
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Just for the record, I'm a big Moon fan and hope that Warren gets in the
HOF. And I'll tell you something, I would have had no idea how big Warren was nationally if I hadn't been on the road working for quite a few years.
In recent years I was in Charleston, WV and met some people there who were huge fans of Moon & The Run & Shoot from back in the early '90s.
He and that offense had a national following.
And Warren got a real tough break over that deal with his wife. As I recall,
she was the aggressor, the abuser most of the time, but one time Warren retaliates, the maid calls the cops and ruins what was a promishing career
for Warren in TV at the network level. Anybody know if they are still together ?
But on John Madden, why should he be in the Hall ? I'm old enough that I remember him coaching the Raiders, and he's nothing special, though they did win a SB while he was there. But otherwise, I mean MNF and Video games,
that's all commercial stuff, unrelated to playing or coaching on the gridiron.
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Old 02-04-2006   #13
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I think Moon will be a HOF'er but not in this vote.
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Old 02-04-2006   #14
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Aikman, White, Moon, Madden all in.

Harry Carson
Rayfield Wright also in.
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Old 02-04-2006   #15
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To answer the topic of this thread. YES!!! If they go by stats, he might make is someday. If they go by character and moral codes, he will NEVER make it! I'm not refering to the wife beating thing either! But, I am sure there are other HOFers who's NFL lives were a tad bit "shaddy." Anyway, it all boils down to what rumors a person wants to believe anyway. Some things can never be proven.
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Old 02-04-2006   #16
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No need to debate it any longer. Moon made it in on the first try! Way to go Warren!
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Old 02-04-2006   #17
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Unbelievable!!!!!!!! I think I might have to go puke!!
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