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Old 02-01-2006   #1
Dr. Toro
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Default Reggie Bush in an NFL Offense

You got to see it in 2005. Unfortunately, you saw what he could do in an NFL offense against NCAA defense. This post isn't about hating Reggie, it's just about reality.

According to Kiper, 6 USC starters will probably go in the first round this year (Tutui, Justice, Bird, Leinart, White, Bush). 3 more are near locks to be first rounders in 2007(Smith, Jarrett, Baker). The scrubs on the squad are Kirtman (top 5 FB) Matua (top 10 guard) and Kalil (C who could go high in 2007). That's an offensive unit with 9 NFL 1st round picks. Carroll's a former NFL HC too. Just keep things in perspective. Reggie didn't have to do any tough running, and teams couldn't focus on him. He'll be lucky to have this much talent around him in the NFL.

Well, how did he do against an elite college D, you ask?

Reggie had some success, butTexas showed how a fast D can contain him. 7 of his 13 carries were for 3 yards or less. He didn't turn the corner with his usual regularity. Texas D is fast; Mack Brown has a long standing practice of moving players down a position, i.e. OLB to DE, and then bulking them up. However, Texas D isn't NFL fast or NFL solid.
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Old 02-01-2006   #2
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i agree that Texas did a good job against Reggie, they were trying to.

Kelson was assigned to Bush (kelson is a converted safety with 4.45 speed) and Huff was also used to keep an eye on Bush(huff obviously NFL caliber-top 15 pick)


Texas defense was perfect for stopping Bush. Chizik loves small fast lb's. Kelson is only 215-220, Killebrew is around 230, Bobino about 230, Harris 230.

Thier speed helped with bush, but hurt in containing White. But this was the perfect plan, because Bush can beat you, White can't.
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Old 02-01-2006   #3
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But having bush in an NFL offense will force alot of attraction to him. No one or two LB will contain him. You have to sacrafice a DB and a LB at least. You will have to even play DE contain to stop him from going wide. So if we get Bush I expect alot of WR sets with DD at tailback, Short 5 yard passes to the TE or a WR, More deep passes to Andre, Pump fakes to reggie, screens to reggie, playaction with reggie, and to really confuse the defense alot of motion with reggie.
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Old 02-01-2006   #4
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Like I said before, Carrol had 2 chances to give the ball to Bush in the final seconds of the Notre Dame game and chose not to. Probably in large part due to the man acoss from him, Charlie Weiss, and his NFL style defense. He wasn't even an option on the 4th and 9 that kept them alive. They lose that game and it's a UT v Penn National Champioship. Don't even get me started on the Bush only touched the ball a couple of times crap or that Carroll made a mistake by not having him in there. He earned the right to be on the bench at those moments or to not be the option at those moments. He'll run arund like crazy in between the 20's but where's he gonna be when it's crunch time, 1st and goal, 2nd and goal, 3rd and goal, 4th and goal. I think a coach that recruited him and that has known him and knows what to expect out of him for the past 3-4 years not using him speaks volumes about what you can xpect out of him when the game is on the line,.....NOTHING cuz he should be on the sidelines watching, likes he's been all alng when the big games, seasons even, are on the line.
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Old 02-01-2006   #5
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I would like to be reminded of how many times we were near the endzone this year. So if he can get us there then there's no problem in giving the ball to someone else in those situations. And on long downs he will see the field in the NFL. He's a far more useful back than DD on the obvious passing situations seeing how well he pass protects when he has to and how he can create seperation and burn you with his speed, he will be getting alot of quick slants or long balls.
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Old 02-01-2006   #6
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Bush will be great for about 6 games then he will be not quite neutralized, but reduced to a good NFL back. Or worse. He simply doesn't have the tools at the next level, he won't dominate with speed, he can't dominate with power, and his vaunted "moves" can be matched by many NFL defenders.

So he'll get away for a couple of games, then his deal is done. And we will have used the first pick in the draft for a slightly improved DD.

Go figure.
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Old 02-01-2006   #7
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Reggie is a elite talent & will never be just an average back, whatever that is
I see only upside for Reggie Bush not to mention he'll get the chance to be a receiver & that should free up AJ. the point of not being used enough by USC simply means he will be well rested without injury or wear & tear concerns. y'all way off base here not to mention he is a class individual who will be very popular with fans and players alike
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Old 02-01-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by College Texan
But having bush in an NFL offense will force alot of attraction to him. No one or two LB will contain him. You have to sacrafice a DB and a LB at least. You will have to even play DE contain to stop him from going wide. So if we get Bush I expect alot of WR sets with DD at tailback, Short 5 yard passes to the TE or a WR, More deep passes to Andre, Pump fakes to reggie, screens to reggie, playaction with reggie, and to really confuse the defense alot of motion with reggie.
not necessarily. Two teams have effectively stopped Steve Smith......and I can't imagine him being faster than Smith, or close to his caliber reciever. If he's on the line, he's going to get bumped........ or they will keep him in front of them.. if the ball goes anywhere near him, they will blow him up..... he might catch the ball, he might be upset that his QB keeps throwing it to him...

You may be right, Reggie may be all that and a bag of chips....... but he may not be. He'll be lucky to face a defense as bad as UT twice a year at the next level.
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Old 02-01-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawk
Bush will be great for about 6 games then he will be not quite neutralized, but reduced to a good NFL back. Or worse. He simply doesn't have the tools at the next level, he won't dominate with speed, he can't dominate with power, and his vaunted "moves" can be matched by many NFL defenders.

So he'll get away for a couple of games, then his deal is done. And we will have used the first pick in the draft for a slightly improved DD.

Go figure.

at worst, he'll be a good kick/punt returner.... & we'd have spent a #1 overall on a backup to Mathis.
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Old 02-01-2006   #10
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Something your forgetting about USC and all of the potential first round picks is that Pete Carrol has said Bush is the "best player" he has ever coached. What does this say about his talent?

The NFL is built around speed. Bush has remarkable speed. I agree that speed alone will not be sufficient to succeed in the league. However, Bush has more than just pure speed - he has remarkable instincts, good vision, good hands, and a stellar work ethic.

Will Bush have to run more than a mere sweep left or sweep right? Yes, but you have to realize that every team that played USC, including Texas, went in with the sole intention of neutralizing Bush. USC was a very good team, but Texans are going to have a variety of weapons as well. AJ, DD, Mathis, an improved TE, and Carr. This is more talent then he was surrounded by last year.

Another thing that plays to Bush's speed is the difference in the hash marks on the pro field vs. the college field. The pro field is built to be wider and thus more condusive to speed. NFL defenses will not have the advantage of a shorter sideline like Texas was able to utilize in the Rose Bowl.
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Old 02-01-2006   #11
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bDiddy, good post........

he'd make a great addition to the team.


I still don't see using the #1 overall to get him though.
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Old 02-01-2006   #12
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Yeah but while that NFL speed defense was focusing on him, the rest of the offensive players lit them up. Reggie is used as a decoy a lot of the time on offense just like Randy Moss.
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Old 02-01-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdiddy
...USC was a very good team, but Texans are going to have a variety of weapons as well. AJ, DD, Mathis, an improved TE, and Carr. This is more talent then he was surrounded by last year.
Really? USC had Jarrett, White, Smith, Byrd, and Leinart. Not even mentioning future stars like Fred Davis and Patrick Turner. Or the loaded USC O-line. And the talent is relative in that a lot of teams have talent in the NFL, while few have ever been so fortunate on the college level as USC. My guess is that if Bush comes here, he will be like a former Yankee that also named Reggie. The straw that stirs the drink.
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Old 02-01-2006   #14
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This is the wrong comparison. You cannot devalue Bush by saying the talent on his team was too good. Where would Portis be if people had said, "Ah! He is on that National Championship Miami team that dominates everyone. He will be no good in the NFL because...

a) He is only 205lbs and that is too small for the NFL." (yes this was an argument against him)
b) He can't break tackles very well and is all speed."
c) He has no hands; fumbles and drops passes too much."
d) He played with an amazing offensive line, and he won't have that in the NFL."
e) Has an attitude."

Denver took Portis in the 2nd round, and he turned out to be the best RB of the entire class. Denver did some slight modifications to its running system, and they used Portis's skill set to dominate teams for two years. Portis never even started a full year and still had 1500 yds in his first two seasons.

Lets compare Portis to Bush shall we?

Speed? They are basically the same in straight line speed.
Quick? Explosive? Both hit their cut at full speed, but Bush has far more agility, and can make better cuts (and faster cuts) than Portis.
Size? What'da ya know... they are basically the same size. Portis played at 200lbs for his time in Denver, and gained 10 lbs to handle the load more in Washington. Bush is 1 inch taller than Portis too.
Hands? Portis doesn't fumble as much as he did early on in his career, but his hands have never really improved much. He dropped screen passes on consecutive plays in '04 once. Bush has better hands than most wideouts and only fumbled once in '05 (the lateral he tried in the NC).
Attitude? Bush is a model student, model citizen, and has a fantastic work ethic. Portis threatened to hold out his rookie year, and the next to years after that he did the same.

From this I would say that if Bush turns out even as good as Portis the Texans would be doing wonderfully. Portis made Denver's offense scary, and if you hadn't heard...

THE TEXANS WILL BE RUNNING DENVER'S OFFENSE!!

...not USC's, not Green Bay's, not even Helix High School's... Denver's the #1 rushing offense over the past 10 years. The offense that can have any back gain 1000 yds. The one that took Elway to the Superbowl, Plummer to consistency, and no namers like Reuben Droughns to stardom.

If you must, you should determine what skill sets, talents, and capabilities Bush will bring to the pro system the Texans will be running. He will be fantastic in a Texan uniform. Understand it. Believe it. Cheer for him when he is drafted.
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Old 02-01-2006   #15
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meh, everyone said the same things of ronnie brown last year. 907 yards on 207 attempts (4.4 ypc), 4 TDs. 32 catches, 232 yards, 1 TD. splitting time with davis will be great for bush, much like it was great for brown
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Old 02-01-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apoch
Denver took Portis in the 2nd round, and he turned out to be the best RB of the entire class. Denver did some slight modifications to its running system, and they used Portis's skill set to dominate teams for two years. Portis never even started a full year and still had 1500 yds in his first two seasons.

From this I would say that if Bush turns out even as good as Portis the Texans would be doing wonderfully. Portis made Denver's offense scary, and if you hadn't heard...
That's the idea, they spent a second rounder on him. When he got too pricey they traded him, replaced him with another noname back, and didn't miss a beat. It's a system where the RB doesn't need to be a worldbeater, he just needs to do a few things really well. Yes Bush is fast and has great moves, but your comparison is bad because Portis is a good inside runner, which matters in the NFL and in this system.

I think you should discount his numbers. My point is, he wasn't like DeAngelo Williams back there, with the opposing team devoting all their time and scouting into stopping him. Sure, defenses were paying attention to Bush, but they weren't ignoring anybody else. Again, what you saw from the USC offense this year is the closest thing to watching an NFL team play a college one. Bush deserves some credit for that, and he certainly opened things up for others, but he had it VERY EASY this year.
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Old 02-01-2006   #17
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portis had some similar knocks on him coming out of college. size, durability, the fact that he played behind the best line in the country, etc.
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Old 02-01-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Toro
You got to see it in 2005. Unfortunately, you saw what he could do in an NFL offense against NCAA defense. This post isn't about hating Reggie, it's just about reality.

According to Kiper, 6 USC starters will probably go in the first round this year (Tutui, Justice, Bird, Leinart, White, Bush). 3 more are near locks to be first rounders in 2007(Smith, Jarrett, Baker). The scrubs on the squad are Kirtman (top 5 FB) Matua (top 10 guard) and Kalil (C who could go high in 2007). That's an offensive unit with 9 NFL 1st round picks. Carroll's a former NFL HC too. Just keep things in perspective. Reggie didn't have to do any tough running, and teams couldn't focus on him. He'll be lucky to have this much talent around him in the NFL.

Well, how did he do against an elite college D, you ask?

Reggie had some success, butTexas showed how a fast D can contain him. 7 of his 13 carries were for 3 yards or less. He didn't turn the corner with his usual regularity. Texas D is fast; Mack Brown has a long standing practice of moving players down a position, i.e. OLB to DE, and then bulking them up. However, Texas D isn't NFL fast or NFL solid.
I agree with your first part about getting to see what he can do in an NFL offense against an NCAA defense, but USC will not have six players in this year's 1st round, I haven't heard Kiper say that yet but if he actually did he's an *****. Bush, Leinart, and White should all be 1sts, Byrd will probably be a mid-2nd rounder, Lutui will probably not even go in the 2nd, and definitely not in the 1st (OGs rarely go in the 1st, and if one does it will likely be Jean-Gilles, but I still don't see that happening), and Justice has a decent chance to go in the 1st, but I still don't see him as the 2nd best OT in the draft like Kiper currently says.
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Old 02-01-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nighthawk
Bush will be great for about 6 games then he will be not quite neutralized, but reduced to a good NFL back. Or worse. He simply doesn't have the tools at the next level, he won't dominate with speed, he can't dominate with power, and his vaunted "moves" can be matched by many NFL defenders.

So he'll get away for a couple of games, then his deal is done. And we will have used the first pick in the draft for a slightly improved DD.

Go figure.
This argument bothers me - not because I necessarily disagree with (though I do in parts) - but because it applies almost word for word to Vince Young, and yet Nighthawk and others refuse to see it.

I think Bush will do well as a speed back (ala Tatum Bell with a few more moves), that is it. If we draft him, he is a viable RBBC option to tandem with Davis. As for the "next Gayle Sayers" and all of that crap ... we'll have to wait and see, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Old 02-01-2006   #20
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MorKnolle-

Kiper's latest mock (post Senior Bowl) has Bush and Leinart going 1-2. Justice going 14 to Philly. White going 17 to Minny. Byrd going 27 to Carolina. Lutui going 30 to Indy. Its's on ESPN Insider. He might be a fool, but these guys are good.
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