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Was Tony Hollings really a bust?

P

phan1

Rookie
Well, this is going to sound stupid, cause he obviously is in retrospect. But I'm not sure if it's because of Hollings or the intelligence of Casserly. I mean really, we've been drafting real quality runningbacks the past couple years (ironic that we're going to draft Bush, but i'm not against that), and it just looked like there was no place for Hollings. DD was the starter. Wells was the backup. A 3rd string runningback is not a guy who's going to get a lot of carries. We then drafted Morency, and with a lineup stacked like that, no wonder Hollings wasn't able to play a down. Include his injury situation, and Hollings was pretty much left up the creek without a pole.

Basically, I'm not sure if Hollings was a guy who couldn't get the job done. He was just a guy who got in a really bad situation. I haven't been able to evaluate him because I just never saw him on the field. I'm just saying that at that time, Hollings wasn't the most terrible choice in the world. Casserly still stinks though. :)
 
While I understand where you are coming from... and lord knows our old coaching staff had an extreme aversion to giving 2nd and 3rd string players any kind of playing time..

But, when Hollings WAS going to see some playing time..9 times out of 10 he would come up lame with some kind of injury.. turn toe..pulled something-or-other.. it was always something.

When he WAS able to play..he stunk things up. He had a couple of good runs.. but he never really did anything to give me any kind of faith in his ability. Not anymore. I think he is just a bust...plain and simple. Maybe someone else could find some kind of use for him, but I dont think we will find it.

Hollings is about the only player on our roster that I have completely given up on.
 
Hollings was a DB for the majority of his college career . He played a total of FOUR games in college as a RB before tearing an ACL . To me this was a HUGE gamble on the part of Casserly that didnt pay off . You dont evaluate a second round pick on FOUR GAMES , You dont take a flier on Damaged Goods with what ammounts to a second round pick . He was taken in the supplemental draft with what ammounted to the next seasons #2 .


http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=33

Started just four career games at running back for the Yellow Jackets but made the most of them…rushed for 633 yards on 92 carries (6.9 avg.) with 11 TDs before right ACL tear in 2002…leading nation in rushing before suffering season-ending ACL injury in fourth quarter of win over BYU…underwent surgery on 10/1…cracked 100-yard mark in all four games.....

…played defensive back for first two seasons at Tech before switching to the offensive backfield…had 10 tackles as a sophomore as a backup defensive back…registered seven tackles as a true freshman
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Is Hollings a BUST? Absolutely . This is just another poor decision by Casserly and shows that he doesnt always do his DUE DILIGENCE when evaluating players ..... Kinda makes me think of the P-Burnt trade .:brickwall
 
corrosion said:
http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=33



Is Hollings a BUST? Absolutely . This is just another poor decision by Casserly and shows that he doesnt always do his DUE DILIGENCE when evaluating players ..... Kinda makes me think of the P-Burnt trade .:brickwall
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This information was well publicized before Hollings selection. Casserly and everyone in the country knew Hollings was coming off injury, had poor grades, and only played 4 ames against marginal competition. Casserly talked directly with his college coach and got an okay. Hollings was a true boom or bust prospect. Not case of poor due diligence (not getting enough information), but of risky decision making.
 
hollings was the highest rated player in the supplemental draft...if not us he would have been taken by someone else...instead of blaming uncle charley on this one blame hollings' agent or whoever hyped his one season...and then blame the coaches for not getting him on the field in the few games he was health..then blame hollings for being hurt without playing in very many games
 
I still wonder if he could have turned into someone with a better coaching staff. The staff we had the first four years couldn't have taught Peyton Manning how to tie his shoe laces.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
This information was well publicized before Hollings selection. Casserly and everyone in the country knew Hollings was coming off injury, had poor grades, and only played 4 ames against marginal competition. Casserly talked directly with his college coach and got an okay. Hollings was a true boom or bust prospect. Not case of poor due diligence (not getting enough information), but of risky decision making.
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While I agree Hollings was a "True Boom or Bust Prospect" .... I really dont think there was enough information to wager a high second round pick on him . Im not sure I would have taken him in the 4th or 5th round with his short track record much less major knee damage . Ill give Cass one thing to his credit .... He isnt afraid to go out on a limb .... Sometimes to the detriment of the Texans.

Going back to Hollings college career .... I wonder if he would have any value at DB ? At this point to salvage something for that wasted pick (#3 of round two) would be nice .
 
corrosion said:
Going back to Hollings college career .... I wonder if he would have any value at DB ? At this point to salvage something for that wasted pick (#3 of round two) would be nice .
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From what I recall, he wasn't that great of a DB.
 
Spoda said:
hollings was the highest rated player in the supplemental draft...if not us he would have been taken by someone else...instead of blaming uncle charley on this one blame hollings' agent or whoever hyped his one season...and then blame the coaches for not getting him on the field in the few games he was health..then blame hollings for being hurt without playing in very many games
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Blame his agent?That is his job to overhype his player and get him the most money. It is the dumb GM who fell for it. We didn't need ANOTHER RB and we sure didn't need to lose a draft pick in the process. Just dumb decision making.
 
Hollings was a high 2nd round pick because Casserly evaluated him and determined that was his value. If Hollings doesn't live up to that evaluation, does that mean he's the bust or Casserly was incorrect in his evaluation?

Based on the information we had at the time (4 games played at the RB position and coming off an ACL tear), I'd say it had more to with Casserly's evaluation.

Hollings wasn't the bust...Casserly's evaluation and decision to use that high of a pick on him was.
 
TheOgre said:
From what I recall, he wasn't that great of a DB.
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Correct, he was not a starter. Hollings was a two way player in HS playing QB and DB. As a senior he rushed for 1,360 yards and 10 touchdowns while passing for 672 yards and 7 TD's. As a junior he rushed for 1,392 yards and 20 touchdowns, passed for 600 yards and 6 TD's. He had 7 INT's during those two years. He then was a DB for a couple years in college. When Chain Gailey became his coach, some teammates suggested he try out for RB and he was leading the nation after 4 games--633 yds on 92 carries (158 ypg) and 11 TD's--his 4 opponents were Vanderbuilt, BYU, Connecticut and Clemson. In three of the games he basically didn't play in the 2nd half so he really only had 2.5 games of college playing time.

Like Ogre, I still wonder if he could have or can turn into something with a better coaching staff. Oakland's cratering certainly made that pick look a lot worse--what looked like a bottom 5 pick in the 2nd round ended up being the 1st pick of the 2nd round. There were supposedly 3 teams (including Dallas so Parcells was willing to take a flyer on his potential as well) who offered 3rds for him. The pick has to be considered a bust in terms of value received by the Texans, but I wonder how much of that was injuries and how much was brought on by mismanagement of the Texans.
 
TheOgre said:
From what I recall, he wasn't that great of a DB.
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Was worth asking .... But if thats the case I suppose its time to swallow the bitter pill and cut their losses . Im happy w/ a backfield of DD , Wells and Morency at this point .

Huge said:
Hollings wasn't the bust...Casserly's evaluation and decision to use that high of a pick on him was.
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Well put .
 
TheOgre said:
I still wonder if he could have turned into someone with a better coaching staff. The staff we had the first four years couldn't have taught Peyton Manning how to tie his shoe laces.
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That's a great point. For that matter, how can we know what any of the players can turn into? For as hard as I have been on Carr, i'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for next season. And all the players for that matter.
 
HoustonFrog said:
Blame his agent?That is his job to overhype his player and get him the most money. It is the dumb GM who fell for it. We didn't need ANOTHER RB and we sure didn't need to lose a draft pick in the process. Just dumb decision making.
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yes i know that is what an agent does...i was just giving him someone to blame..kudos to his agent
 
there is plenty of blame to go around on this pick, but you have to find some reason why Casserly was willing to take a flyer on this boom or bust converted, coming off acl injury RB and that reason I believe was the Texans had their hearts set on upgrading the RB position period. If y'all remember the 2003 draft (3rd selection- Miami Hurricane Andre Johnson) the Texans were all but set to draft Willis McGahee then he tore his ACL. Instead of staying with Willis & considering using that 1st pick of the 2nd rd. to trade up (would have required trading up cause Buffalo surprised everyone by taking McGahee with the 23rd pick) they gave up on the man who should now be the Houston Texans franchise RB.

all things happen for a reason because the Texans would not have the #1 pick in the 2006 draft if this had happened or the chance to draft Reggie Bush. maybe Hollings did the Texans a favour & hopefully a lesson learned :cool:
 
Spoda said:
yes i know that is what an agent does...i was just gicing him someone to blame
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I know, I was just hyping the point. The blame, in my book, goes to one guy who mis-evaluated. Not the first time.
 
HoustonFrog said:
We didn't need ANOTHER RB and we sure didn't need to lose a draft pick in the process. Just dumb decision making.
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Actually a lot of folks thought we needed a RB at that point. Don't forget when the pick was made--after the 2003 draft. Stacey Mack had signed on, but he was a grinder not a long term solution. There were rumors the Texans had thought about McGahee prior to his injury and were considering him lower but the Bills took him in the 1st anyway--McGahee was coming off a much more recent knee injury. There were folks who were mad the Texans didn't take Musa Smith, Chris Brown or Justin Fargas. DD was signed to be a returner and 3rd down back and hadn't played a down in the NFL yet. Hollings was raw so having Mack under a short term contract and developing a raw back wasn't a horrible theory--it just hasn't panned out.
 
TheOgre said:
The staff we had the first four years couldn't have taught Peyton Manning how to tie his shoe laces.
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No thats totally wrong.

They would have taught him how to tie his shoelaces but also teach him that his shoes are actually gloves and that they go in your hand....:redtowel:
 
infantrycak said:
Actually a lot of folks thought we needed a RB at that point. Don't forget when the pick was made--after the 2003 draft. Stacey Mack had signed on, but he was a grinder not a long term solution. There were rumors the Texans had thought about McGahee prior to his injury and were considering him lower but the Bills took him in the 1st anyway--McGahee was coming off a much more recent knee injury. There were folks who were mad the Texans didn't take Musa Smith, Chris Brown or Justin Fargas. DD was signed to be a returner and 3rd down back and hadn't played a down in the NFL yet. Hollings was raw so having Mack under a short term contract and developing a raw back wasn't a horrible theory--it just hasn't panned out.
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yeah I can remember salivating thinking of mcgahee in a Texans uni... think Bush is great? McGahee was Bush + White together...


freakin buckeyes
 
corrosion said:
While I agree Hollings was a "True Boom or Bust Prospect" .... I really dont think there was enough information to wager a high second round pick on him . Im not sure I would have taken him in the 4th or 5th round with his short track record much less major knee damage . Ill give Cass one thing to his credit .... He isnt afraid to go out on a limb .... Sometimes to the detriment of the Texans.

Going back to Hollings college career .... I wonder if he would have any value at DB ? At this point to salvage something for that wasted pick (#3 of round two) would be nice .
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Actually the club used a 2nd from Oakland who was coming off a Superbowl appearance. Even the most pesimistic person though that was a mid-2nd rounder at worst. no one really saw the total Raider meltdown coming. At the time there was minor questioning here or there on this pick, but honestly there was not an uproar by so-called experts or many fans.
 
infantrycak said:
Actually a lot of folks thought we needed a RB at that point. Don't forget when the pick was made--after the 2003 draft. Stacey Mack had signed on, but he was a grinder not a long term solution. There were rumors the Texans had thought about McGahee prior to his injury and were considering him lower but the Bills took him in the 1st anyway--McGahee was coming off a much more recent knee injury. There were folks who were mad the Texans didn't take Musa Smith, Chris Brown or Justin Fargas. DD was signed to be a returner and 3rd down back and hadn't played a down in the NFL yet. Hollings was raw so having Mack under a short term contract and developing a raw back wasn't a horrible theory--it just hasn't panned out.
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I'm still not thinking that you need to lose a draft pick that early in a franchise for a flyer RB even if you were not sure how DD was going to turn out. Truthfully from the way you put, which sounds about right, then Casserly would not have been so genius about DD and he was more a BONUS than a player they thought could turn it on and play full time RB. I just think it was a waste considering the player taken and the research.
 
HoustonFrog said:
Truthfully from the way you put, which sounds about right, then Casserly would not have been so genius about DD and he was more a BONUS than a player they thought could turn it on and play full time RB.
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I think that is about right, but I am willing to give Cass or any GM credit for some bonus strikes because they are going to get kneed in the groin with the occasional unpredictable injury--Joppru, or other bad luck failures as well.
 
It was a bad pick but not a mistake. You cannot really blame Casserly for taking a solid player with no injury history who ends up with a multitude of injuries after you take him.
 
Joppru was a solid pick and most thought he was a late first rounder, The hollings pick is just another quick jump at things when Casserly wanted a guy. I think he could have waited till the lower picks to grab him in the supplemental.
 
cadahnic said:
I think he could have waited till the lower picks to grab him in the supplemental.
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That is the thing, he couldn't. Probably the Texans would have been better off losing out on that potential selection, but if the Texans had bid their 3rd Hollings would be a Cowboy. They picked higher in the supplemental draft than the Texans. The Texans used the Raiders 2nd round pick, not their own. In the just finished draft the Cowboys had drafted 5th and the Raiders 31st. At the time it looked as if Casserly was bidding about 6 spots higher than the Cowboys by using the Raiders 2nd to beat the Cowboys' 3rd. As it turned out the Raiders cratered to pick 1st in the 2nd the next year but that was hardly predictable.
 
infantrycak said:
That is the thing, he couldn't. Probably the Texans would have been better off losing out on that potential selection, but if the Texans had bid their 3rd Hollings would be a Cowboy. They picked higher in the supplemental draft than the Texans. The Texans used the Raiders 2nd round pick, not their own. In the just finished draft the Cowboys had drafted 5th and the Raiders 31st. At the time it looked as if Casserly was bidding about 6 spots higher than the Cowboys by using the Raiders 2nd to beat the Cowboys' 3rd. As it turned out the Raiders cratered to pick 1st in the 2nd the next year but that was hardly predictable.
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hmm, I think pretty much everyone saw that the raiders were going for broke the year they made the cuper bowl.

they had tons of vets at the end of their careers, looking for one last shot. You could tell it was either then or never.

or at least i thought so. not claiming to be a psychic, but it was obvious they werent going to the playoffs the next year.
 
stevo3883 said:
hmm, I think pretty much everyone saw that the raiders were going for broke the year they made the cuper bowl.

they had tons of vets at the end of their careers, looking for one last shot. You could tell it was either then or never.

or at least i thought so. not claiming to be a psychic, but it was obvious they werent going to the playoffs the next year.
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Did you really think Raiders were going to drop from the superbowl runner up to runner for the first pick in the draft?

Not making the playoffs at 7-9 is a different notion than the Raiders becoming the pretty much the worst team in the league.
 
ArlingtonTexan said:
Did you really think Raiders were going to drop from the superbowl runner up to runner for the first pick in the draft?

Not making the playoffs at 7-9 is a different notion than the Raiders becoming the pretty much the worst team in the league.
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no i didn't think it would be that bad, but you could see it coming.
 
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