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Old 01-27-2006   #1
Errant Hothy
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Default Combine News

Yes I know the Combine is still a ways off, but here is the first piece of relevant news to it:

NCAA | Young will throw at the NFL Combine
Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:46:14 -0800

Chip Brown, of the Dallas Morning News, reports former Texas QB Vince Young will throw and meet with teams at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis Feb. 22-28, according to his agent, Major Adams. Adams said Friday, Jan. 27, that Young won't run or lift weights at the Combine because "teams already know he can run and do all that."

I wished he would run in Indy, but maybe he's afraid to run?

Please no bashing, I always am suspicious of players who dont run in Indy; becasue the way I see it is if you don't run at Indy what are you hiding. I makes me double suspicious because runnign is one of VY's stronger points of his game. I am interested to see how he thorws as it'll be teh determinig factor in where he is drafted.
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Old 01-27-2006   #2
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I agree. What the hell does Vince need to run for? Youve seen him on saturdays. He is f-ing fast. He doesnt need to risk tearing something, or straining something to back up his game tape.
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Old 01-27-2006   #3
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having a bad time can ruin a prospect. smart business decision on not running.
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Old 01-27-2006   #4
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It may be a smart decision in one sense, but for his sake I think he needs to demonstrate that speed in front of all of the NFL personnel because that is his strength. Cutler and Leinart may out-throw him at the combines, so he may up his stock if he reminds those in attendance about his other attributes. Just my opinion.
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Old 01-27-2006   #5
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Originally Posted by Glacier
having a bad time can ruin a prospect. smart business decision on not running.
This is reality, however he might just run on Texas Pro-Day, you will just have to wait and see
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Old 01-27-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
This is reality, however he might just run on Texas Pro-Day, you will just have to wait and see
True but running at the combine gives teh truest number since everybody will run on the same track. The numbers from pro days are horrible inaccurate, see any Virgina Tech prospect in the last 5 to 7 years.

Plenty of guys in teh pros run at Indy during the season, it's a fair peice fo turf. Harrison, Wayne and Edge seem to out run people just fine on it.

Lets say VY was to run a 4.5 (I do think he is faster, but stranger things have happened) how bad to you think it would affect his draft status.
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Old 01-27-2006   #7
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Can somebody explain what the relevence is in a QB's 40 time?
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Old 01-27-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
Can somebody explain what the relevence is in a QB's 40 time?
Because we've heard that VY will CHANGE the game, with his ability to both RUN and throw. That he is teh next evelution of the QB. That he is lock for the HOF.

I'm not really concerned with the actual number, unless it's lineman like. I'm more concern that his agent says he doen't need to run. I like to measurable performance numbers on guys my team is going ot draft. Also feels like VY and agent are coping a bit of an attitude ala "VY is to good to run at teh combine."

Just my take.
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Old 01-27-2006   #9
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40 speeds are important to some postions like WR or CB. QB is not even for Vince Young, but if your interested I believe he has stated that he ran a 4.42 last year, thats good enough for me
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Old 01-27-2006   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy
I wished he would run in Indy, but maybe he's afraid to run?

Please no bashing, I always am suspicious of players who dont run in Indy; becasue the way I see it is if you don't run at Indy what are you hiding. I makes me double suspicious because runnign is one of VY's stronger points of his game. I am interested to see how he thorws as it'll be teh determinig factor in where he is drafted.
See, this is what I don't understand from the people that are unimpressed w/ VY and his potential ability in the NFL.

In all of the VY discussions that I have read, no one has questioned his running ability. Most of the knocks against him by many of you is that, "he's going to run around like M.Vick and that won't cut it in the NFL" type arguments. So he has nothing to prove in that regard. BTW, what are the chances that Bush runs at the combine? Zero...everyone knows he is fast and can run w/ the ball in open space. He will run at USC's pro-day just like VY will more than likely run at UT's pro-day. No chance that Bush will risk having a "bad" day at the combine and run a 4.40 (still very good) instead of a 4.28 and cause the Texans to think twice.

The question that the majority of people have regarding VY is his throwing abiltiy. Those of us that believe he does throw well and have a strong arm feel like we have already seen those things from him. Since that is his biggest question, I think it is a very gutsy and needed tryout for him. He knows that having a poor showing will affect his position in the draft. But that's just how he is. He is not phased or worried (I know this will be bashed as undying praise for the "almighty VY", but I'm just stating what I've seen from him.) The bigger the stage is, and the more pressure thereis, the better he performs. That is just his poise that he showed in every game. When the game is on the line, he is as calm and confident as you can get; he just goes out there and does it. That is why I'm convinced that he will pleasantly surprise people w/ his throwing ability and accuracy at the combine. As I've said before, I can't wait for the combine so he can silence some of the critics.

My point is, most agreed he could run. Some thought he couldn't pass. Now he is going out there to show you that he can throw too, and you are questioning him for not running? Come on people, the man is trying to take some of the "you can't pass" assessments away from his resume. What more do you want? If he did run and ran better than some of the running backs, and threw as well as Leinart & Cutler, you'd still say that he is a running QB just b/c Leinart & Cutler don't have the same running ability.
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Old 01-27-2006   #11
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I agree that the combine and pro days don't show what you can do on the field, but if a Team is looking to draft you and sign you to a multi million dollar contract, and they ask you to run and lift,,,,,,,,,,,, then I think you should run and lift.
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Old 01-27-2006   #12
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I love talking about the draft and prospects, but way too much is made of a 40 time(and bench reps) and there are always various 40 times reported for each prospect. I remember last year when people were saying Thomas Davis was too slow to play safety because of a 40 time. Then a few weeks later after a pro-day workout he is suddenly fast enough. 40 times don't mean a whole lot in my book and I hope they are taken with a grain of salt this offseason.
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Old 01-27-2006   #13
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Wags, what is up with Davis? Didn't see him on the field much this year. I expected him to have be a fast guy into the starting job.
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Old 01-27-2006   #14
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Wags, what is up with Davis? Didn't see him on the field much this year. I expected him to have be a fast guy into the starting job.
Got benched after game 1 for McCree and McCree never gave it back. Davis played a "joker" role in nickel packages and always played 3rd and long. Maybe the PAnthers were scared to break up the chemistry half way through the season because McCree is not as good against the run and made Julius Jones look like a stud in the Dallas game. Davis might switch to LB if they don't re-sign Witherspoon.

As for highlights he was the first guy to sack Brady this year... yes the ever elusive master side-stepper Brady. He was designated as a "spy" on Vick the entire game and limited Vick to 36 yards. The one lowlight I guess is when he almost killed Terrence Murphy on MNF.
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Old 01-27-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
Can somebody explain what the relevence is in a QB's 40 time?

It's not relevant to Matt Leinhart because he's a pure passer .... Young it's VERY relevant because his game is predicated upon his mobility ....
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Old 01-27-2006   #16
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The throwing will be HUGE. If he does just average, the flavor of the week will be turn into Cutler and Young's hype will start to die down (outside of Houston that is). It will be very interesting. People are already claiming Cutler to be a better prospect than both Leinart and Young.
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Old 01-27-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoth-Boy
Because we've heard that VY will CHANGE the game, with his ability to both RUN and throw. That he is teh next evelution of the QB. That he is lock for the HOF.

I'm not really concerned with the actual number, unless it's lineman like. I'm more concern that his agent says he doen't need to run. I like to measurable performance numbers on guys my team is going ot draft. Also feels like VY and agent are coping a bit of an attitude ala "VY is to good to run at teh combine."

Just my take.
If you're looking for a number as a measurable, what range are you looking/hoping for?

If Young clocks a 4.6 at UT's Pro Day and you were hoping for a 4.4...does that .2 seconds of a difference change anything? If so...what?

Think about the actual difference .2 of a second is and then think how that translates to a football field. Then if you can explain how it's relevent, I'd really like to hear it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
40 speeds are important to some postions like WR or CB. QB is not even for Vince Young, but if your interested I believe he has stated that he ran a 4.42 last year, thats good enough for me
Sorry, lover of beer...I disagree.

Top 10 Rushers All-Time:
Emmitt Smith
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders
Eric Dickerson
Tony Dorsett
Jerome Bettis
Jim Brown
Marcus Allen
Franco Harris
Thurman Thomas

Top 10 Receivers All-Time:
Jerry Rice
Cris Carter
Tim Brown
Andre Reed
Art Monk
Irving Fryar
Steve Largent
Henry Ellard
James Lofton
Marvin Harrison

How many of those 20 would've been considered "burners" in their prime? Half? Maybe?
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Old 01-27-2006   #18
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My guess is that Vince feels like passing ability is what he really needs to show at the combine. Nothing wrong with preparing and focusing on what people perceive to be your weakness. He might lift and run at Texas pro-day... I think he views himself as having nothing to gain by running at the combine or at all for that matter. It makes sense to run/lift it will be at the pro day, in friendly confines, on a fast track where you knows you'll put up a good number.

As a QB, how often do you run from a stopped position? Never. So I don't think the NFL folks care too much about his 40. They look at different numbers for different positions... I remember people were more impressed at Roy Williams (DB) "catchup speed" (the 20 yard split from the second half of the sprint) than they were discouraged by his slower 40 time.
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Old 01-27-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
Sorry, lover of beer...I disagree.

Top 10 Rushers All-Time:
Emmitt Smith
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders
Eric Dickerson
Tony Dorsett
Jerome Bettis
Jim Brown
Marcus Allen
Franco Harris
Thurman Thomas

Top 10 Receivers All-Time:
Jerry Rice
Cris Carter
Tim Brown
Andre Reed
Art Monk
Irving Fryar
Steve Largent
Henry Ellard
James Lofton
Marvin Harrison

How many of those 20 would've been considered "burners" in their prime? Half? Maybe?
I catch your drift but I did not include RB's though a higher pick like Reggie Bush would be more important if for no other reason than to validate the use of a # 1 overall or top 5 pick. Braylon Edwards was not a "burner" either and he was the top WR chosen last season because of his ability to seperate and make the catch. however look at the CB's who's stock rose after the combines or individual workouts, Dunta Robinson being one.

Come to think of it Jason Babin stock rose in large part because of his 40 & shuttle times so speed applies to the hybred position's too like OLB.
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Old 01-27-2006   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
If you're looking for a number as a measurable, what range are you looking/hoping for?

If Young clocks a 4.6 at UT's Pro Day and you were hoping for a 4.4...does that .2 seconds of a difference change anything? If so...what?

Think about the actual difference .2 of a second is and then think how that translates to a football field. Then if you can explain how it's relevent, I'd really like to hear it.
As I said unless it's lineman like I don't care.

I'm more concerned with the agent's comments and his lack of desire to show what is one of his best assests. See the 80 yarder against Okie State.

I've seen plenty of film on VY, I know he's fast. But if we're going to spend teh #1 pick on anybody I want all the data, regardless if it's irrelevant or not.

I'll be saying the same thing if Reggie deciedes to not run in Indy also.
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