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Old 01-26-2006   #1
the-wiz
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Default Anyone remember Texas vs. A&M this year?

I understand all the hoopla over Vince Young. It's well deserved after his amazing Rose Bowl performance. What has me worried about him though is how poorly he played in the Texas A&M game this year. Here are his stats followed by the link. The game was close the whole time so we can't say it was due to the lack of Texas running the entire game. In fact, A&M had one of the poorest passing defenses in the nation I believe 117/119. I'm not sure about that last figure, but I'm sure it's close. Anyways, here are a few stats from the game. Also, the Big 12 was sadly weak this year with Texas only real tests coming from a non-conference Ohio St. game where he threw for 270 yards 2 td's and 2 interceptions, and the Rose Bowl. I'm not saying he's not amazing talent, but there are other more pressing needs on this Texans team, namely depth at the Offensive Line and Linebacker positions.

Passing C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT
Vince Young 13/24 162 6.8 1 1
Rushing CAR YDS AVG TD LG
Vince Young 11 19 1.7 0 12

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=253290245

If you want to say this is me bashing Young, go for it, I'm sure it will happen, but before you do at least look at these stats before you say that Young is the Godsend of all the Texans Problems.
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Old 01-27-2006   #2
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Lies! fabrications! falsehoods! slander! You are lucky that Vince Young doesnt strike you down where you stand for taking his name in vain.

Besides.. he was sick that day.. he had to borrow someone elses pads.. his helmet was too tight.. the sun was in his eyes.. he had a big test the next day..



seriously though.. this has been brought up a few times already and it is always ignored. It will harmlessly scroll off the page in a day or two, with no one the wiser.
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Old 01-27-2006   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the-wiz
I understand all the hoopla over Vince Young. It's well deserved after his amazing Rose Bowl performance. What has me worried about him though is how poorly he played in the Texas A&M game this year. Here are his stats followed by the link. The game was close the whole time so we can't say it was due to the lack of Texas running the entire game. In fact, A&M had one of the poorest passing defenses in the nation I believe 117/119. I'm not sure about that last figure, but I'm sure it's close. Anyways, here are a few stats from the game. Also, the Big 12 was sadly weak this year with Texas only real tests coming from a non-conference Ohio St. game where he threw for 270 yards 2 td's and 2 interceptions, and the Rose Bowl. I'm not saying he's not amazing talent, but there are other more pressing needs on this Texans team, namely depth at the Offensive Line and Linebacker positions.

Passing C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT
Vince Young 13/24 162 6.8 1 1
Rushing CAR YDS AVG TD LG
Vince Young 11 19 1.7 0 12

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=253290245

If you want to say this is me bashing Young, go for it, I'm sure it will happen, but before you do at least look at these stats before you say that Young is the Godsend of all the Texans Problems.
Yeah, I know...any post like this means you're VY bashing on this MB. My response will be, of course, perceived as taking up for him, "he can do not wrong," "think he hung the moon," etc....but I'm just offering a response to you and giving MY opinion. So, here goes.

The A&M game was not his greatest performance. EVERYONE (even the immortal VY) has a bad game every now and then. The key is, that was the exception....not the norm for him. Will he have an off game every now and then (as will everyone)? Sure, but that is not what he did on a consistant basis.

Even in that game, the key was that he STILL found a way to win the game. That is b/c of some of VY's intangibles that so many people speak of...heart, determination, and leadership. Even though he was struggling and wasn't the normal "Superman" status, he still led the team on scoring drives late in the 3rd and 4th quarter. When his physical tools were not as sharp as they normally were, his intangibles willed him and the team to the win (and the team still believed in him.) That is why he is a winner and a leader.

Anytime you have to look through 13 games to try and find ONE game that a player played badly in, that says to me that you're dealing w/ a very good player. Because no matter what some people may say ("Rose Bowl was only one game"), VY was lights out in every game aside from the A&M game.
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Old 01-27-2006   #4
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I was at the game. Needless to say, his heart or will to win did not lead this team to victory. Punt Block/Timely turnovers by the defense won this game.
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Old 01-27-2006   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the-wiz
Passing C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT
Vince Young 13/24 162 6.8 1 1
Rushing CAR YDS AVG TD LG
Vince Young 11 19 1.7 0 12

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=253290245

If you want to say this is me bashing Young, go for it, I'm sure it will happen, but before you do at least look at these stats before you say that Young is the Godsend of all the Texans Problems.
That was the Offensive line, or the Tail Back couldn't pick up the blitz, or poor coaching, or the general manager, or the defense let us down.... the devil made him do it.

This is an example of what happens when the reigns are not let loose on Vince Young.....

This game, just like the Oklahoma game....... stats go out the window. They don't mean nothing. A&M have been preparing for this game all year long.... No one is ignoring this game every now and then, Vince is going to look like Carr....

Maybe the Drycleaner used too much starch in the cape??
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Old 01-27-2006   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the-wiz
I understand all the hoopla over Vince Young. It's well deserved after his amazing Rose Bowl performance. What has me worried about him though is how poorly he played in the Texas A&M game this year. Here are his stats followed by the link. The game was close the whole time so we can't say it was due to the lack of Texas running the entire game. In fact, A&M had one of the poorest passing defenses in the nation I believe 117/119. I'm not sure about that last figure, but I'm sure it's close. Anyways, here are a few stats from the game. Also, the Big 12 was sadly weak this year with Texas only real tests coming from a non-conference Ohio St. game where he threw for 270 yards 2 td's and 2 interceptions, and the Rose Bowl. I'm not saying he's not amazing talent, but there are other more pressing needs on this Texans team, namely depth at the Offensive Line and Linebacker positions.

Passing C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT
Vince Young 13/24 162 6.8 1 1
Rushing CAR YDS AVG TD LG
Vince Young 11 19 1.7 0 12

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=253290245

If you want to say this is me bashing Young, go for it, I'm sure it will happen, but before you do at least look at these stats before you say that Young is the Godsend of all the Texans Problems.
Careful throwing these kinds of stats around. You called their baby ugly and those orange-lensed loyalists can be brutal.
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Old 01-27-2006   #7
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As an Aggie I'm used to it. Saying that statement right there probably says I'm biased.
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Old 01-27-2006   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the-wiz
I understand all the hoopla over Vince Young. It's well deserved after his amazing Rose Bowl performance. What has me worried about him though is how poorly he played in the Texas A&M game this year. Here are his stats followed by the link. The game was close the whole time so we can't say it was due to the lack of Texas running the entire game. In fact, A&M had one of the poorest passing defenses in the nation I believe 117/119. I'm not sure about that last figure, but I'm sure it's close. Anyways, here are a few stats from the game. Also, the Big 12 was sadly weak this year with Texas only real tests coming from a non-conference Ohio St. game where he threw for 270 yards 2 td's and 2 interceptions, and the Rose Bowl. I'm not saying he's not amazing talent, but there are other more pressing needs on this Texans team, namely depth at the Offensive Line and Linebacker positions.

Passing C/ATT YDS AVG TD INT
Vince Young 13/24 162 6.8 1 1
Rushing CAR YDS AVG TD LG
Vince Young 11 19 1.7 0 12

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=253290245

If you want to say this is me bashing Young, go for it, I'm sure it will happen, but before you do at least look at these stats before you say that Young is the Godsend of all the Texans Problems.
One more stat you left out. Texas-40 A&M-29
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Old 01-27-2006   #9
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VY did not play well. It usually happens quite often, during each season, that the best players just don't have it or the defense is fully prepared for them.

I am more surprised by the fact that people keep bringing this up when VY's team won the game and bounced back to win the Big 12 and Rose Bowl. The ability to bounce back from that type of game says a lot more about him than a stat line that is the exception rather than the rule.
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Old 01-27-2006   #10
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Remember Ben Roethlisberger's game against Iowa a couple of years ago? This was his stat line...

27/42, 250 yards, 0 TDs, 4 INTs
7 rushes, -15 yards

He'll be playing in the Super Bowl in a few days. How is this even possible after having such a horrible game?
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Old 01-27-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huge
Remember Ben Roethlisberger's game against Iowa a couple of years ago? This was his stat line...

27/42, 250 yards, 0 TDs, 4 INTs
7 rushes, -15 yards

He'll be playing in the Super Bowl in a few days. How is this even possible after having such a horrible game?
True but I don't think that Rothlisberger had so many people riding his sack about being the second coming. I don't know how BR was overall in college but I bet no one thought he would be such a major player so fast.

Point being, college ball does not translate to the NFL. No matter the talent you won't know until they get to the big time, besides I think the Vince "Football Jesus" Young thing is played out, especially after Kubiak's endorsement of Carr. I really think they are going to take Bush or trade down.

YES, I know that college doesn't translate to the RB position either but I think that the impact by Bush will be felt a lot sooner than with VY.
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Old 01-27-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txn_in_VA
True but I don't think that Rothlisberger had so many people riding his sack about being the second coming. I don't know how BR was overall in college but I bet no one thought he would be such a major player so fast.

Point being, college ball does not translate to the NFL. No matter the talent you won't know until they get to the big time, besides I think the Vince "Football Jesus" Young thing is played out, especially after Kubiak's endorsement of Carr. I really think they are going to take Bush or trade down.

YES, I know that college doesn't translate to the RB position either but I think that the impact by Bush will be felt a lot sooner than with VY.
I believe he went 11th in the first round and that was a surprise. I thought he was better than Rivers. I guess my point and others is that some would like to encapsulate a player with one game while not looking at the entire body of work.
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Old 01-27-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
I believe he went 11th in the first round and that was a surprise. I thought he was better than Rivers. I guess my point and others is that some would like to encapsulate a player with one game while not looking at the entire body of work.
To be honest, I don't recall seeing much of anything about VY, not only on this board but anywhere. Then the Rose Bowl happened and then all of a sudden the VY fluffers are coming out of the woodwork regardless of his complete body of work. If USC had won the game then this debate would not be happening right now and to me that makes the whole VY argument kind of a joke because the point of him being drafted first in the draft is based COMPLETELY on his play in the Rose Bowl. He's a great player but I just don't buy the hype.
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Old 01-27-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txn_in_VA
To be honest, I don't recall seeing much of anything about VY, not only on this board but anywhere. Then the Rose Bowl happened and then all of a sudden the VY fluffers are coming out of the woodwork. He's a great player but I just don't buy the hype.
I think the hype is accurate, the kid is a player and a leader. However, trade down has been and still is my tune, and I am sticking with it.
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Old 01-27-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
I think the hype is accurate, the kid is a player and a leader. However, trade down has been and still is my tune, and I am sticking with it.
Same page a me then. I think this team has too many issues to keep this pick. Trade down and maybe help the line AND the D in the first if possible. Would like to see a dominant LB get picked.
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Old 01-27-2006   #16
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Besides, everything I am reading about our coaches and from Texans management is that they are sticking with Carr. Whether or not VY is the right player for Houston is no longer necessary...unless we want to start debating whether any other player who does not and will not play for the Texans is best for the Texans.
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Old 01-27-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txn_in_VA
True but I don't think that Rothlisberger had so many people riding his sack about being the second coming. I don't know how BR was overall in college but I bet no one thought he would be such a major player so fast.
They were singing his praises pretty loudly in Ohio. Which is understandable. He was their hometown guy just as Vince is here in Texas. So of course you're going to hear more about him here than any other place.

I think another reason you're hearing more about Vince now than what you did about BR back then was that Vince was able to accomplish more in college than what BR did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Txn_in_VA
Point being, college ball does not translate to the NFL. No matter the talent you won't know until they get to the big time, besides I think the Vince "Football Jesus" Young thing is played out, especially after Kubiak's endorsement of Carr. I really think they are going to take Bush or trade down.

YES, I know that college doesn't translate to the RB position either but I think that the impact by Bush will be felt a lot sooner than with VY.
I agree college ball does not translate to the NFL. I don't think you'll find many people that do.

So if college ball doesn't have much to do with the NFL, why point to a game (especially just one game) that the player didn't perform well in and use that as an example of why/how he won't succeed in the NFL? Isn't it the same shortsighted opinion to say he can't succeed in the NFL because he played poorly as it is to say he can succeed because he played great? There have been a ton of players that have had much better NFL careers than they did in college.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Txn_in_VA
To be honest, I don't recall seeing much of anything about VY, not only on this board but anywhere. Then the Rose Bowl happened and then all of a sudden the VY fluffers are coming out of the woodwork regardless of his complete body of work. If USC had won the game then this debate would not be happening right now and to me that makes the whole VY argument kind of a joke because the point of him being drafted first in the draft is based COMPLETELY on his play in the Rose Bowl. He's a great player but I just don't buy the hype.
It started when he came out of high school. It started picking up steam after the Kansas game in '04. It really got rolling after the '05 Rose Bowl and snowballed from there.

Most of us are in agreement about trading down. I'm in that boat as well. But that won't stop me from debating Vince Young's abilities.
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Old 01-27-2006   #18
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They were singing his praises pretty loudly in Ohio. Which is understandable. He was their hometown guy just as Vince is here in Texas. So of course you're going to hear more about him here than any other place.
In Ohio maybe, but definitely not a national media issue like this one has become.

Quote:
So if college ball doesn't have much to do with the NFL, why point to a game (especially just one game) that the player didn't perform well in and use that as an example of why/how he won't succeed in the NFL? Isn't it the same shortsighted opinion to say he can't succeed in the NFL because he played poorly as it is to say he can succeed because he played great? There have been a ton of players that have had much better NFL careers than they did in college.
I'm not trying to point to one game or another as saying that's what made him so great, I just think the the Rose Bowl was the catalyst that turned this into such a big issue. I'm looking at it more from the issue of how we have all these bandwagon jumpers who, up until the Rose Bowl could have cared less. Now all of a sudden they are singing praises. Like I said, if he didn't have the game he did at the Rose Bowl this messabe board would be quite a few members lighter and a couple threads shorter.

I just want the draft to get here and over with. I figure we have until April to keep these threads going. Then after the draft we will get the "I Can't Believe They Didn't Draft Such and Such" threads, and THEN after a year or two whichever guy is not on our team we will hear about how stupid we were not to draft that guy instead of the one we got.

Geez, now that I start thinking about it this is going to turn into the neverending cycle of Vince vs Reggie. Hell, this could go on and on and on and on...

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Old 01-27-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txn_in_VA
In Ohio maybe, but definitely not a national media issue like this one has become.
Agreed. But like I said, you never saw a performance from Roethlisberger on the same level as Vince in the Rose.

And there are plently in the media that couldn't care less about what he did in the Rose Bowl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Txn_in_VA
I'm not trying to point to one game or another as saying that's what made him so great, I just think the the Rose Bowl was the catalyst that turned this into such a big issue. I'm looking at it more from the issue of how we have all these bandwagon jumpers who, up until the Rose Bowl could have cared less. Now all of a sudden they are singing praises. Like I said, if he didn't have the game he did at the Rose Bowl this messabe board would be quite a few members lighter and a couple threads shorter.
It's been no different than what everybody was saying about Bush after the Fresno State game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Txn_in_VA
I just want the draft to get here and over with. I figure we have until April to keep these threads going. Then after the draft we will get the "I Can't Believe They Didn't Draft Such and Such" threads, and THEN after a year or two whichever guy is not on our team we will hear about how stupid we were not to draft that guy instead of the one we got.

Geez, now that I start thinking about it this is going to turn into the neverending cycle of Vince vs Reggie. Hell, this could go on and on and on and on...
That's pretty much exactly what's going to happen.
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Old 01-27-2006   #20
Holden135
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It is kinda funny how everyone wrote this game off for VY. He had a bad game against a HORRIBLE defense. The wrecking crew has been gone for years and VY still played bad. People also forget how bad the USC defense was. I wanna say they were ranked somewhere in the 40's in total d. Im not saying VY wont be a good qb, i just don't like him as a texan.
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