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Old 01-25-2006   #1
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Default Good informative article about Carr on Sporting News

First off let me say, this is NOT a 'draft Vince' post or an 'I hate Carr' post. I don't care who they draft, or whether they keep Carr or ditch him, i just want the team to get better, period. I just found the article pretty informative and unbiased. Pompei makes some really good points whether you like or dislike Carr.

Texans need to chase Carr out of their pocket
January 24, 2006

Dan Pompei

The most important question the Texans will answer this season is this: Should they sack quarterback David Carr?

My answer: Why not? Everyone else has.

In four seasons, Carr has been sacked 208 times. This year he was sacked 68 times -- 19 more than Drew Bledsoe, who was sacked the second-most times. He has lost 1,226 yards on sacks, roughly the distance from Reliant Stadium to George Bush Intercontintenal Airport, where he can find his flight out of town.

Of course, Carr has been the victim of poor support. His line has had the effect of a colander. The running game has been erratic. Perhaps the schemes he has played in haven't given him enough options to avoid sacks.

But he hasn't helped himself much, either, and the issue now is if he's capable of helping himself. Whether he has been beaten into a skittish quarterback or whether he's just not instinctive enough to operate with bodies flying around him, Carr cannot get out of the way of a pass rush.

One NFL head coach familiar with Carr says he believes Carr can be salvaged. Perhaps he's right. Perhaps not. It's not a bet I'd be willing to make if Matt Leinart of USC and Vince Young of Texas were options.

On the occasions when Carr hasn't had to worry about pass rushers, he has been effective. "He's fine with the three-step stuff," the coach says. "But because of the protection problems, he's looking at the rush and not downfield."

You don't play quarterback in a china cabinet. What separates the great ones is how they react to pressure. Carr doesn't feel pressure until he's on his back and seeing little birdies flying around his helmet.

Carr has been hit so much he won't stay in the pocket for that extra half-second to wait for a receiver to come free if it means taking another hit. Happy feet? His feet couldn't be any happier if he were a Disney character. Sometimes he plays like he should be wearing tap shoes instead of cleats and carrying a cane instead of a football.

"At some point, the fundamental protection instinct has to kick in," says another NFL head coach who has devised game plans against Carr. "I think that's happened a little bit. Because his protection has been so bad, it's hard to determine if it's something he'll always have or if it can get better with a better offensive line and a better offensive approach that allows him to know where to go with the ball."

Carr hasn't learned to throw the ball away and live for another play. Nor has he mastered the art of subtle movement to avoid a pass rusher, as Tom Brady has. When he feels pressure, he pulls it down and runs -- often right into another defender.

Against the blitz, he is defenseless as a kitten. On the 131 plays in which he was blitzed this season, Carr was sacked 29 times and had a 64.9 passer rating, which ranked 27th among starters, according to STATS Inc.

There are other issues with Carr. One personnel director who has studied Carr believes even though Carr has the arm to make every throw, he lacks the touch to get the ball over a defender.

His mechanics aren't out of a textbook -- he throws sidearm -- and the result was 15 passes batted down at the line, fourth most in the NFL.

Carr could overcome his delivery if that were his biggest problem. There is precedent for quarterbacks with unorthodox deliveries -- Fran Tarkenton and Bernie Kosar to name two.

I can envision Carr becoming a serviceable quarterback someplace else. But he probably won't ever be a difference-maker. The point is the Texans can't let a quarterback they can't be sure of prevent them from what could be a once-in-a-millennium opportunity.

And that, dear readers, is sack No. 209.

Full article: http://www.sportingnews.com/exclusiv.../698707-p.html
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Old 01-25-2006   #2
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That is a very interesting article and probably the most succinct argument I've heard for Carr not being a good QB. I don't know if I'm convinced or not, but it was well written.
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Old 01-25-2006   #3
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Definitely food for thought since it came from an outsider who talked to people who saw bad and good. I'm sure, per usual, people will find the points they like and go with that. The Carr lovers will claim that the guy admitted that Carr hasn't had a chance and the Carr haters will say "see." I do think the guy pointed out some worrisome things that might be problems despite an improved team and line.
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Old 01-25-2006   #4
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pretty good write up on Carr's questionable traits.

It didnt really change anything.. there is still a precedent for keeping Carr and seeing if he can be salvaged, and there is still plenty of beef against him. So neither party can really say that this proves their point.
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Old 01-25-2006   #5
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Carr hasn't learned to throw the ball away and live for another play. Nor has he mastered the art of subtle movement to avoid a pass rusher, as Tom Brady has. When he feels pressure, he pulls it down and runs -- often right into another defender.

Against the blitz, he is defenseless as a kitten. On the 131 plays in which he was blitzed this season, Carr was sacked 29 times and had a 64.9 passer rating, which ranked 27th among starters, according to STATS Inc.
I've said it before and I will say it again - If DC hasn't learned how to throw the ball away by his 4th year, then when will he. I have a 13 year old nephew who throws the ball away on Madden, why can't DC. DC should know how to do this type of stuff already. Vince is a better quarterback then DC is right now and always will be.

Heck I don't care, take the kid from USC then, just get rid of DC. Or Chris Winke. Or somebody - anybody!!!!!

Last edited by Wharton; 01-25-2006 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 01-25-2006   #6
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Originally Posted by Grid
pretty good write up on Carr's questionable traits.

It didnt really change anything.. there is still a precedent for keeping Carr and seeing if he can be salvaged, and there is still plenty of beef against him. So neither party can really say that this proves their point.
Well, seems to me it does change some things. The Carr fanboys have to take stock and figure out how to counter the persuasive argument presented in the article. It's the same argument that has been presented on the board in several ways, and it misses some other key points or advantages in getting rid of Carr, but it suggests that some "football people" share the view of Carr's limitations that many of us have put forward previously.

As I said else, would you rather keep Carr and see "if he can be salvaged," or build a new and better team around a new and better QB? Seems to me the best choice is clear.
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Old 01-25-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportsfan
You don't play quarterback in a china cabinet. What separates the great ones is how they react to pressure. Carr doesn't feel pressure until he's on his back and seeing little birdies flying around his helmet.

Carr has been hit so much he won't stay in the pocket for that extra half-second to wait for a receiver to come free if it means taking another hit. Happy feet? His feet couldn't be any happier if he were a Disney character. Sometimes he plays like he should be wearing tap shoes instead of cleats and carrying a cane instead of a football.

"At some point, the fundamental protection instinct has to kick in," says another NFL head coach who has devised game plans against Carr. "I think that's happened a little bit. Because his protection has been so bad, it's hard to determine if it's something he'll always have or if it can get better with a better offensive line and a better offensive approach that allows him to know where to go with the ball."

Carr hasn't learned to throw the ball away and live for another play. Nor has he mastered the art of subtle movement to avoid a pass rusher, as Tom Brady has. When he feels pressure, he pulls it down and runs -- often right into another defender.
I've been saying this for the longest time...
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Old 01-25-2006   #8
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Carr hasn't learned to throw the ball away and live for another play. Nor has he mastered the art of subtle movement to avoid a pass rusher, as Tom Brady has. When he feels pressure, he pulls it down and runs -- often right into another defender.
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Originally Posted by Fiddy
I've been saying this for the longest time...
I have been saying this since someone pointed it out to me in 2004 and I started paying attention to it. A few days ago I mentioned that I think Carr is responsible for a lot of his sacks. This guy is saying the same thing.
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Old 01-25-2006   #9
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Originally Posted by Fiddy
I've been saying this for the longest time...especially that last sentence...
Yeah, I could do a search and find where most if not all of these points most have been made overall the last couple of years by some of the more respected contributors to the board. Of course, now that a national writer has noticed or compiled the same things it is now a great objective look at Carr.

I have long given up on the thought that an intelligent discussion could be had of Carr on this board without just being lumped into the Carr hater or Carr lover category.
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Old 01-26-2006   #10
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At least two NFL coaches blame his problems on protection. In my book that is equal to the opinion of about 47 message board posters and 3 sports writers.

Oops forgot Kubiak, add him and that's about 71 posters and 5 sports writers.
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Old 01-26-2006   #11
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Originally Posted by Sportsfan
First off let me say, this is NOT a 'draft Vince' post or an 'I hate Carr' post. I don't care who they draft, or whether they keep Carr or ditch him, i just want the team to get better, period. I just found the article pretty informative and unbiased. Pompei makes some really good points whether you like or dislike Carr.
It was an opinion piece. It was very biased as it was his opinion. Not very informative as it had little to no facts.

I don't care if we ditch Carr or not. At this point he is servicable. As long as we get better.

But as an outsider I found this article a joke. Comparing Carr's situation to Tom Brady. OH man that had me laughing...ask yourself this...Do you see David Carr in Visa comercials with his offensive line that is so good that call it "Visa's Pocket of Protection" or whatever. Brady's O-line is so good that Visa wants their security compared to it. Give me a break.

If nothing else the playoffs showed us that just about EVERY single Probowl QB looked like a total chump when their team couldn't protect them. That is the reality of football. If the QB isn't protected, he WILL look bad.

With that said, regardless of who our QB is we better protect the guy.
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Old 01-26-2006   #12
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As far as the throw away business goes, there are 2 problems: (1 is that ALL QBs look like *****s with bad protection, and 2) is that you can't just run, run, throw it away; run, run, throw it away; run, run, throw it away. At some point, you have to try to win, which means hanging in there and then trying to force something. Carr has said himself that if he threw it away every time he needed to that he would ALWAYS be throwing it away.

I do think that Carr doesn't stay in the pocket long enough at times (happy feet). That comes from 4 years of crud for protection. I don't believe that Carr is going to be limited to "serviceable QB" in the long run--unless he stays with this team and the O-line is horrible FOREVER. However, VY is probably an upgrade (at least in the long run), so I can see taking him. Then I can laugh when VY is running out of bounds/for his life.
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Old 01-26-2006   #13
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Originally Posted by LBC_Justin
It was an opinion piece. It was very biased as it was his opinion. Not very informative as it had little to no facts.

I don't care if we ditch Carr or not. At this point he is servicable. As long as we get better.

But as an outsider I found this article a joke. Comparing Carr's situation to Tom Brady. OH man that had me laughing...ask yourself this...Do you see David Carr in Visa comercials with his offensive line that is so good that call it "Visa's Pocket of Protection" or whatever. Brady's O-line is so good that Visa wants their security compared to it. Give me a break.

If nothing else the playoffs showed us that just about EVERY single Probowl QB looked like a total chump when their team couldn't protect them. That is the reality of football. If the QB isn't protected, he WILL look bad.

With that said, regardless of who our QB is we better protect the guy.
Gosh, just like you I don't care who our QB is (wink wink, nudge nudge), I just hope he or she gets protected by our big ol' offensive line! Because golly gee! a QB guy or gal can't really do much when he or she is not protected, Batman! And I think if we protect our current gal or guy, why, s/he might just turn out, uh . . . serviceable, after a couple of years under the fine hand of Gary K! Holy Dick Tracy, guys! Let's give him a chance! Six year is not too long, is it? I know for some guys they're in the superbowl in two, but they have a better line than we do oh darn! Really, let's give Davy another 4 years, that'd be fair, that's be really fair and earnest of us. I mean, I'm drawing the line there, though. If he can't get us to 8-8 after 8 years in teh league, I think we better sit him down for a game or two, let him cool his jets on the pine for a couple outings, just let him know we mean business!
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Old 01-26-2006   #14
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What a smart*****.
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Old 01-26-2006   #15
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Originally Posted by Hulk75
Do you think when things go bad he can just throw the ball away, it is that easy?
Well yeah! If a 13 year old can figure it out, then yeah, its that easy. When your out of the pocket, a linebacker breathing down your neck, and noone to throw to, then throw the ball into the bleachers.

Think slowly, act quickly. Know what you are going to do with the ball at all times. Bottom line is the game has not slowed down for him yet.
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Old 01-26-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportsfan
First off let me say, this is NOT a 'draft Vince' post or an 'I hate Carr' post. I don't care who they draft, or whether they keep Carr or ditch him, i just want the team to get better, period. I just found the article pretty informative and unbiased. Pompei makes some really good points whether you like or dislike Carr.

Texans need to chase Carr out of their pocket
January 24, 2006

Dan Pompei


On the occasions when Carr hasn't had to worry about pass rushers, he has been effective. "He's fine with the three-step stuff," the coach says. "But because of the protection problems, he's looking at the rush and not downfield."

You don't play quarterback in a china cabinet. What separates the great ones is how they react to pressure. Carr doesn't feel pressure until he's on his back and seeing little birdies flying around his helmet.

Carr has been hit so much he won't stay in the pocket for that extra half-second to wait for a receiver to come free if it means taking another hit. Happy feet? His feet couldn't be any happier if he were a Disney character. Sometimes he plays like he should be wearing tap shoes instead of cleats and carrying a cane instead of a football.

Carr hasn't learned to throw the ball away and live for another play. Nor has he mastered the art of subtle movement to avoid a pass rusher, as Tom Brady has. When he feels pressure, he pulls it down and runs -- often right into another defender.

Against the blitz, he is defenseless as a kitten. On the 131 plays in which he was blitzed this season, Carr was sacked 29 times and had a 64.9 passer rating, which ranked 27th among starters, according to STATS Inc.

There are other issues with Carr. One personnel director who has studied Carr believes even though Carr has the arm to make every throw, he lacks the touch to get the ball over a defender.


And that, dear readers, is sack No. 209.

Full article: http://www.sportingnews.com/exclusiv.../698707-p.html
So which is it? Does he feel pressure or dosent he? Can he read the D where the linebacker comes straight up the gut untouched and he pulls the ball down so he can live for the next play or dosent he? Oh I see if you are Vince Young and you scramble you have crazy mad tallent, if you are David Carr you have happy feet. Run into another defender? He was second among QB's behind Vick in rushing. Well there you go, another problem, his last name isn't Vick. Did he inadvertantly (I need a spell check please. Spend a Billion dollars on a team and you cant afford a spell check?) say that Carr could throw when he has time? How is the line unable to pick up a blitz Carrs fault? Who are the coach's he is talking too? A lack of touch was in Carr's scouting report. Poor caoching has allowed that to go on.

This guy wouldn't be a UT alum would he?
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Old 01-26-2006   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LBC_Justin
It was an opinion piece. It was very biased as it was his opinion. Not very informative as it had little to no facts.

I don't care if we ditch Carr or not. At this point he is servicable. As long as we get better.

But as an outsider I found this article a joke. Comparing Carr's situation to Tom Brady. OH man that had me laughing...ask yourself this...Do you see David Carr in Visa comercials with his offensive line that is so good that call it "Visa's Pocket of Protection" or whatever. Brady's O-line is so good that Visa wants their security compared to it. Give me a break.

If nothing else the playoffs showed us that just about EVERY single Probowl QB looked like a total chump when their team couldn't protect them. That is the reality of football. If the QB isn't protected, he WILL look bad.

With that said, regardless of who our QB is we better protect the guy.
I completely disagree. Tom Brady stepped in for Bledsoe in the third or fourth game of that one season and led them and Bledsoe was getting killed in the pocket. Why is it that some guy naturally know how to sidestep rushes without taking their eyes off the receivers downfield and others can't. How is the piece not informative?He gives as many sources as some others have and pretty much pointed out obvious weaknesses. I'm middle of the road on what to do with him but it really is amazing that so many people have the Carr blinders on. To the poster above who said 2 coaches said it was the lines fault..they also said that he may have caused some of the problems himself and they didn't know if it could be fixed. At least try and open your mind to what an outsider is saying. Maybe Carr can step up from HEB commercials to Visa.
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Old 01-26-2006   #18
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Originally Posted by Nighthawk
Gosh, just like you I don't care who our QB is (wink wink, nudge nudge), I just hope he or she gets protected by our big ol' offensive line! Because golly gee! a QB guy or gal can't really do much when he or she is not protected, Batman! And I think if we protect our current gal or guy, why, s/he might just turn out, uh . . . serviceable, after a couple of years under the fine hand of Gary K! Holy Dick Tracy, guys! Let's give him a chance! Six year is not too long, is it? I know for some guys they're in the superbowl in two, but they have a better line than we do oh darn! Really, let's give Davy another 4 years, that'd be fair, that's be really fair and earnest of us. I mean, I'm drawing the line there, though. If he can't get us to 8-8 after 8 years in teh league, I think we better sit him down for a game or two, let him cool his jets on the pine for a couple outings, just let him know we mean business!
LOL..maybe we can draft a stylist for the sidelines to make his life better.
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Old 01-26-2006   #19
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Nothing new that has not been covered. If Carr was only counting against the cap at 3 million dollars it would be a no brainer to keep him. But to take a hit at 7.92 million next year is possibly the most mind boggling waste of money for our team and it is bordering Snyder territory on frivolousness.
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Old 01-26-2006   #20
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I completely disagree. Tom Brady stepped in for Bledsoe in the third or fourth game of that one season and led them and Bledsoe was getting killed in the pocket.
Brady does have excellent pocket presence, but Bledsoe was not getting comparatively killed. Bledsoe was sacked 4 times in the 1st game with Cincy who went on to have 48 sacks on the season, 4th in the NFL and then was sacked once in the 2nd game, i.e. 2.5 sacks per game. Brady went on to be sacked 41 times in the next 14 games or 2.9 sacks per game.
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