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Old 01-23-2006   #1
ThaShark316
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Default Who else is in the "Win-Win-Win" crowd?

I've seen a few in that crowd. I just wanna see who wouldn't mind us doing one of the 3.

Draft Bush?
Draft Young?
Trade Down?

Honestly, I would welcome any one of those options. Some only want Vince, some only Bush, while some just want to trade down. IMO, regardless, I think it's a win-win-win situation.

GO TEXANS!!
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Old 01-23-2006   #2
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Im definetly in the win win win crowd.

My heart says take Young.
But I think Bush or trade down is the smart pick.
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Old 01-23-2006   #3
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This is how I see it

1- YAY I WON A NEW PORSCHE!
2- YAY I WON A NEW FERRARI!
3- YAY I WON A FREE OIL-CHANGE & TIRE ROTATION!
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Old 01-23-2006   #4
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eh.. honestly.. id like to say im in the win win win crowd.. but im not.

I really feel that taking Young would be a loss. But im not in charge so it doesnt really matter. Ill cheer for Young if he comes here... may even buy one of his jerseys.
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Old 01-23-2006   #5
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Originally Posted by stevo3883
This is how I see it

1- YAY I WON A NEW PORSCHE!
2- YAY I WON A NEW FERRARI!
3- YAY I WON A FREE OIL-CHANGE & TIRE ROTATION!

ouch.. id think Mario Williams and a couple more picks in a draft this deep would be worth more than a free oil change.. in relation to a ferrari or porsche anyway
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Old 01-23-2006   #6
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Change VY to a Lexus-a well dusguised Toyota (cough, Mike Vick, cough)
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Old 01-23-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
ouch.. id think Mario Williams and a couple more picks in a draft this deep would be worth more than a free oil change.. in relation to a ferrari or porsche anyway

thus the additional tire-rotation.

I honestly feel these two guys are so freaking rare that if you pass them up there in no possible way the 2 extra picks will come close to their potential.
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Old 01-23-2006   #8
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I feel it's a win-win, not a win-win-win.

# 1. Trade the pick- win. The Texans may not end up with a glamorous or flashy player, but it would allow them to address their needs. Houston has not had an offensive line in it's history, so they could start there. They failed to address their holes at LB in last years draft when they inexplicably passed on Derrick Johnson after getting rid of Jamie Sharper, so how about AJ Hawk. The secondary is porous after inexplicably getting rid of Aaron Glenn, so rather than bringing in a liability like Philip Buchanon, they could draft a stud DB. They have no recieving tight end after inexplicably getting rid of Billy Miller, so they could grab one of the excellent TEs available this year. They could shore up all those areas by trading the # 1 pick for more picks.

# 2. Draft Vince Young- win. No, the Texans don't necessarily NEED a QB, but Vince is a once in a lifetime opportunity. He's a better and more versatile talent than Carr, and a proven leader. He would create an excitement around this franchise that we haven't seen since the franchise started in 2002. From a money standpoint, he would sell tickets and merchandise faster than they could produce it, and the Texans would immediately gain millions of new TV viewers around the state. If Bud Adams was smart enough to see this about Earl, surely McNair, Casserly and Kubiak are smart enough to see it this time. If they pass on this guy, it better be to address some needs, not to draft another non-need position.... like running back. It would be awfully hard to swallow when he's kicking our butts with the Titans twice a year, knowing that he could have been ours.

# 3. Draft Reggie Bush- lose. Okay, sure he's an exciting player, but he's not first pick good. He's a situational player, not an every down back, and there is no way you should waste a pick on a RB that will probably get the ball less than 15 times per game, considering that he won't be returning kicks (1/3 of his yardage production in college). On top of that, the Texans don't need a RB any more than they need a QB. The difference between VY and RB is that Vince brings all of the additional positives listed above. Bush means NOTHING to this community. Not to mention that the UT-Texan fans will be livid after being slighted two years in a row, and they make up a significant percentage of the Texans fan base. If the Texans brain trust picks Bush, it ain't gonna be pretty. It would be very hard to justify.

Last edited by Caesar; 01-23-2006 at 07:59 PM.
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Old 01-23-2006   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaShark316
I've seen a few in that crowd. I just wanna see who wouldn't mind us doing one of the 3.

Draft Bush?
Draft Young?
Trade Down?

Honestly, I would welcome any one of those options. Some only want Vince, some only Bush, while some just want to trade down. IMO, regardless, I think it's a win-win-win situation.

GO TEXANS!!
I think it is win-win-win

But I see it this way.

Taking Bush lowest risk
Taking Young medium risk
Trading down high risk

But I think we are going to get great players anyway we go.
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Old 01-23-2006   #10
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Originally Posted by LBC_Justin
I think it is win-win-win

But I see it this way.

Taking Bush lowest risk
Taking Young medium risk
Trading down high risk

But I think we are going to get great players anyway we go.
I think you have it backwards.

Trading down would be the lowest risk. We would aquire more players in the upper first round giving us a bigger chance of landing a few starters.

Taking Bush seems to be a medium risk. He could be amazing or he could just be a productive player. Might even flop.

Taking Young is a huge risk with huge rewards. He might not ever be able to learn the NFL system... but if he does.. watch out.
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Old 01-23-2006   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar
# 2. Draft Vince Young- win. No, the Texans don't necessarily NEED a QB, but Vince is a once in a lifetime opportunity. He's a better and more versatile talent than Carr, and a proven leader. He would create an excitement around this franchise that we haven't seen since the franchise started in 2002. From a money standpoint, he would sell tickets and merchandise faster than they could produce it, and the Texans would immediately gain millions of new TV viewers around the state. If Bud Adams was smart enough to see this about Earl, surely McNair, Casserly and Kubiak are smart enough to see it this time. If they pass on this guy, it better be to address some needs, not to draft another non-need position.... like running back. It would be awefully hard to swallow when he's kicking our butts with the Titans every year, knowing that he could have been ours.

# 3. Draft Reggie Bush- lose. Okay, sure he's an exciting player, but he's not first pick good. He's a situational player, not an every down back, and there is no way you should waste a pick on a RB that will probably get the ball less than 15 times per game, considering that he won't be returning kicks (1/3 of his yardage production in college). On top of that, the Texans don't need a RB any more than they need a QB. The difference between VY and RB is that Vince brings all of the additional positives listed above. Bush means NOTHING to this community. Not to mention that the UT-Texan fans will be livid after being slighted two years in a row, and they make up a significant percentage of the Texans fan base. If the Texans brain trust picks Bush, it ain't gonna be pretty. It would be very hard to justify.
You are amazingly Bias.

Reggie Bush is not worthy of the #1 pick, and is a situational player.
Vince Young is a once in a lifetime opportunity.

Lets not forget that Vince takes every snap from shotgun, plays behind the best O-line in college football, and has marginal arm strength and a goofy (but effective) throwing motion. If the Texans don't take Vince Young he will probably won't even be the first QB taken. Wow, what a "once in a lifetime opportunity".

Earl Campbell was the universal #1 pick in that years draft. Every team wanted him with the #1 pick. In an ESPN poll taken after the Rose Bowl every state including Texas thought that Reggie Bush should be the #1 pick.

Hook'em Horns - Oh I am a Longhorn and I even went to the Rose Bowl game. I support the Horns and Vince Young but taking him with the #1 pick is CRAZY TALK in my opinion. If we could trade down and take him at #3 then great but at #1.....not worth it, sorry.

GO TEXANS!!!
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Old 01-23-2006   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKnockTexan
I think you have it backwards.

Trading down would be the lowest risk. We would aquire more players in the upper first round giving us a bigger chance of landing a few starters.

Taking Bush seems to be a medium risk. He could be amazing or he could just be a productive player. Might even flop.

Taking Young is a huge risk with huge rewards. He might not ever be able to learn the NFL system... but if he does.. watch out.
According the "Experts", if you look at situations in which teams traded down it almost always worked out better for the team that traded up to get the better pick. On the flip side you could get several GREAT players and this has happend but that is very very low probability. You usually end up trading a Peyton Manning to get a few Jason Babins and Kaliee Wongs at best.

Reggie Bush is the safe bet. At worst he will be a very very good starter. At best he is the league MVP. The transition from the college game to the pro game is not nearly as harsh as it is for a QB. Thus making him a pretty safe bet. (No I don't expect him to average almost 9 yards a carry in the pros but 4.5 would be nice )
Main risk:
1. As with every player there is a risk of injury.

Vince Young carries several risks.
1. There is the risk he will never mentally be able to pick up the NFL game, currently the offensive he plays in is NOTHING like a pro offense. His physical gifts are so amazing that mental side of his game has me covered up. This will be tested in the pros.
2. His passing abilities are a big question mark. His arm strength is not anything to write home about.
3. If he has any kind of injury that slows him down he will no longer be Vince Young, he will be an average QB at best. The threat of him running makes him the passer and the runner that he is.

I am not hating on VY. I love the guy. I am just being real. I am first and foremost a Texans fan. Not a fan of a single player.
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Old 01-23-2006   #13
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And what makes Reggie Bush worth the # 1 pick, out of curiosity?
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Old 01-23-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar
And what makes Reggie Bush worth the # 1 pick, out of curiosity?
Here is a start

Reggie Bush: 2005

TCB YDS AVG TD REC YDS AVG TD KOR YDS AVG PR YDS AVG TD
187 1,658 8.9 15 31 383 12.4 2 23 391 17.0 18 179 9.9 1



Winner of the Doak Walker Award and Walter Camp Award.
Pigskin Club of Washington D.C. Offensive Player of the Year.
Was 1 of 3 finalists for the 2005 Maxwell Award and 1 of 4 finalists for the Cingular-ABC Sports All-America Player of the Year Award.
He made the 2005 Football Coaches, Football Writers, Walter Camp, ESPN.com, SI.com and CBS Sportsline.com All-American first teams.
He was named the 2005 Pac-10 Offensive Player of the Year for the second consecutive year (just the fifth player ever so honored and the first non-quarterback to do it in 20 years) and also made the All-Pac-10 first team as a tailback (the squad's only unanimous pick) and second team as a punt returner.
He was USC's team MVP (for the second consecutive year) and won the USC Player of the Game versus Notre Dame, Co-Player of the Game versus UCLA, Co-Lifter and Jack Oakie "Rise and Shine" (for longest run) awards.
He is currently first nationally in all-purpose running (217.6, first in Pac-10), fourth in rushing (138.2, second in Pac-10) and tied for 18th in scoring (9.0, tied for fifth in Pac-10).
His 8.9 yards per carry in 2005--nearly a first down every carry--is tops in the nation.
With 1,658 rushing yards in 2005, he became USC's 24th 1,000-yard runner (his first time).
His 1,658 rushing yards (sixth on USC's season rushing list and ninth on the Pac-10 season chart) are the most at USC since Marcus Allen's 2,427 in his 1981 Heisman Trophy season.
He is averaging 10.1 yards on his 259 touches in 2005 (he has 2,611 all-purpose yards, within range of Marcus Allen's USC and Pac-10 record of 2,683 in 1981 and ninth on the USC season list).
The average length of his 16 touchdowns in 2005 is 31.9 yards.
He is averaging a touchdown every 14.4 times he touches the ball in 2005 (18 TDs on 259 touches).
His 5 consecutive 100-yard rushing games in 2005 (Arkansas, Oregon, Arizona State, Arizona State, Notre Dame) was the first time a Trojan did that since Ricky Ervins also had 5 in a row in 1989.
He has rushed for 100 yards 11 times in his career (8 times in 2005, the most in a season by a Trojan since Ricky Ervins had 9 in 1989).
In USC's 5 games against AP ranked opponents in 2005, he is averaging 198.8 rushing yards (10.0 per carry), with 10 rushing TDs, and 302.2 all-purpose yards.
He and Marcus Allen are the only Trojans to twice rush for at least 260 yards in a game.
He is the only Trojan to rush for 200 yards twice against UCLA.
His combined 554 rushing yards versus Fresno State (294) and UCLA (260) were the most ever by a Trojan in back-to-back games.
He has 93 plays of 20-plus yards in his career (including 36 in 2005).
He caught a pass in 27 consecutive games before his streak was snapped against UCLA in 2005.
He has 6,338 all-purpose yards in his career, averaging 10.3 yards on each of his 615 touches, to rank second in USC history (behind Charles White's 7,226 in 1976-79) and 13th in NCAA history.
In his career, he has averaged a touchdown every 15.0 times he touches the ball (41 TDs on 615 touches).
His 2 seasons with 2,000-plus all-purpose yards (he had 2,330 in 2004) ties an NCAA record.
He has produced touchdowns 5 different ways as a Trojan (rushing, receiving, kickoff returns, punt returns and passing).
He has scored 41 TDs in his 38-game career (24 rushing, 13 receiving, 1 on kickoff returns, 3 on punt returns).
His 3,087 career rushing yards is seventh on USC's career chart.
He is averaging 7.4 yards per carry in his career (420 rushes).
His 89 career receptions is 19th on USC's career ladder.
His 1,420 career kickoff return yards is second on USC's all-time list and his 559 career punt return yards is fifth on USC's all-time chart.
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Quote:
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Actually he is an A-Hole because he is an A-hole. just like a tiger is a tiger because he is a tiger.
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Old 01-23-2006   #15
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More

GAME-BY-GAME WITH REGGIE BUSH

2005 TCB YDS AVG TD LG REC YDS AVG TD LG
Hawaii* 12 86 7.2 2 41 4 58 14.5 0 20
Arkansas* 8 125 15.6 1 76 3 70 23.3 1 40
Oregon* 20 122 6.1 1 38 3 43 14.3 1 19
Arizona St.* 17 158 9.3 2 34 1 4 4.0 0 4
Arizona* 14 110 7.9 0 65 2 16 8.0 0 10
Notre Dame* 15 160 10.7 3 35 4 35 8.8 0 13
Washington* 8 51 6.4 1 11 2 18 9.0 0 12
Wash. St.* 17 97 5.7 0 14 4 40 10.0 0 17
Stanford* 12 113 9.4 1 42 4 27 6.8 0 9
California* 17 82 4.8 0 20 1 4 4.0 0 4
Fresno St.* 23 294 12.8 2 65 3 68 22.7 0 43
UCLA
2005 (Jr.)... 163 1398 8.6 13 76 31 383 12.4 2 43



2005 KOR YDS AVG TD LG PR YDS AVG TD LG
Hawaii* 1 14 14.0 0 14 0 0 0.0 0 0
Arkansas* 2 16 8.0 0 10 0 0 0.0 0 0
Oregon* 3 75 25.0 0 30 4 27 6.8 0 24
Arizona St.* 1 18 18.0 0 18 3 13 4.3 0 11
Arizona* 1 17 17.0 0 17 0 0 0.0 0 0
Notre Dame* 4 57 14.3 0 20 3 13 4.3 0 21
Washington* 2 32 16.0 0 21 1 84 84.0 1 84
Wash. St.* 0 0 0.0 0 0 4 19 4.8 0 9
Stanford* 1 15 15.0 0 15 1 6 6.0 0 6
California* 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0
Fresno St.* 7 135 19.3 0 30 1 16 16.0 0 16
UCLA
2005 (Jr.)... 22 379 17.2 0 30 17 178 10.5 1 84


*Starter

BUSH'S 2005 PLAYS OF 20+ YARDS


Hawaii 2 (41 TD, 20)
Arkansas 1 (65)
Notre Dame 5 (36 TD, 21, 45 TD, 22, 20)
Washington 2 (84 TD, 21)
Stanford 1 (42)
California 1 (20)
Fresno St. 10 (28, 65, 30, 21, 35, 45 TD, 25, 50 TD, 20, 43)
2005 (Jr.)... 33
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Old 01-23-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevo3883
This is how I see it

1- YAY I WON A NEW PORSCHE!
2- YAY I WON A NEW FERRARI!
3- YAY I WON A FREE OIL-CHANGE & TIRE ROTATION!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grid
ouch.. id think Mario Williams and a couple more picks in a draft this deep would be worth more than a free oil change.. in relation to a ferrari or porsche anyway
More like two BMWs and a Mercedes - and they aren't as expensive if they break like the Porsche and Ferrari.
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Old 01-23-2006   #17
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Vince Young/ Bush is definitely a win/win IMHO -- trading down is probably a win as well, but that goes against the gambler in me.
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Old 01-23-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKnockTexan
I think you have it backwards.

Trading down would be the lowest risk. We would aquire more players in the upper first round giving us a bigger chance of landing a few starters.

Taking Bush seems to be a medium risk. He could be amazing or he could just be a productive player. Might even flop.

Taking Young is a huge risk with huge rewards. He might not ever be able to learn the NFL system... but if he does.. watch out.
That's basically the way I see the risk/reward. Between the two, I think Bush may have the higher reward/risk ratio, while Young may have the highest potential reward.

I think it is win-win-win; I prefer a trade for at least a proven veteran and a couple of high picks.
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Old 01-23-2006   #19
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We need a running back about as much as the Saints do. We've got three Hosses.... Gary Kubiak, a run blocking offensive line, and if we can get L'Charles Bently.... wE're going to be spitting RBs out like a frikkin factory... people will be beggin us for our backs, and offering crazy made deals to get them.
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Old 01-23-2006   #20
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Option 1: Draft Reggie Bush
Option 2: Trade no further than 4th
Option 3: Trade no further than 5th



As for the multitude of RBs... I'm sure that Tony Hollings is an expensive lesson (expensive in that it cost us a 2nd round pick). He should be traded for an extra pick if at all possible. That leaves DD and Jonathan Wells. Keep both. Heck, use Bush, DD, and Wells - along with AJ and Mathis. Could Wells be an H-back? maybe. Possibly could be built into a TE. If Wells isn't resigned, then we have Morency. Either way, we gain one RB (Reggie Bush) and lose another (Hollings or Wells) we will have the same number we have now.
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