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Old 01-23-2006   #1
TexasDiehard
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Default McNair is the root of all problems with the Texans. Can he change?

I am a life long Houstonian, a UH grad and a huge sports fan and I remember how excited I was when I attended Bob McNair's announcement of the "Houston Texans" team name downtown and the later introduction of the team logo. Bob did an incredible job securing a new NFL franchise for Houston and gave all sports loving Houstonians hope that the long miserable years of Bud Adams would be forgotten in the wake a of a first class organization that would put pro football in Houston on the right path.

The opening day victory against Dallas was probably the biggest single event in Houston sports history in terms of the wonderful way it made all Houston sports fans proud and it was followed by an exciting Super Bowl Houston that Bob McNair made possible. Bob McNair is a great guy and a first class individual who has done great things for Houston and a I thank him for it. Unfortunately, Bob has also proven to be a very unsound CEO of an NFL franchise. Below is a summary of his failed track record to date:

* Hired Charlie Casserly despite a very questionable track record on draft picks and free agent acquisitions. He was known then as a great compiler of player data who was clueless about how to properly evaluate talent. Not surprisingly, he has compiled one of the worst drafting and free agent acquisition track records in the history of the NFL since joining the Texans and not having Joe Gibbs as a crosscheck.

Veteran NFL minds knew Charlie road Joe Gibbs coattails at Washington and was out of a job when McNair hired him because the rest of the league realized that Washington succeeded because of Joe Gibbs superior abilities in spite on Charlie's talent evaluation deficiencies. Bob confused Charlie's strong technical expertise with sound talent evaluation ability and hired a GM who could only succeed if he had a superior head coach to make the ultimate personnel judgements. Then he hired a head coach who needed a superior GM.

* Hired Dom Capers despite a very questionable track record as a first class guy, but a head coach who needed superior talent to succeed, who was hyper conservative and incapable of inspiring a sound offensive strategy, who was not a strong game day coach with superior adjustment abilities, who had difficulty evaluating and hiring superior assistant coaches, who put personal loyalty in coaching personnel decisions above sound football judgement and who lost the confidence of his players when all these flaws became apparent. What a surprise that Dom had the same issues in Houston. Bob hired a head coach that could only succeed with a GM that was a superior talent evaluator and then shortchanged the investment in coordinators who could compensate for Dom's deficiencies.

* Hired Dan Reeves to consult. Dan is a great guy with a track record of taking teams deep into the playoffs without winning the big one. He is also a guy who has been out of the league for awhile because of the perception that the game has passed him bye. Dan's contribution is to convince Bob to do the obvious and fire Capers, but to amazingly retain Charlie despite one of the worst draft and free agent track records in league history. The basis for this being that the talent wasn't being "coached up". Does any serious football mind really believe the Texans have more than 3 or 4 players who could start on a playoff team regardless of the coaching? How can anyone believe retaining Charlie makes any since at all?

* Hired Gary Kubiak as head coach. Gary may or may not be a good coach but there is absolutely no evidence that he can master the complexities of leading a NFL franchise to the highest level. The great successes in his coaching resume have come under Mike Shanahan and with John Elway at the controls of the offense. The Bronces have never made it to the highest level without John Elway. I hope Gary proves to be a great head coach, but he has been passed over as a head coaching candidate by countless other NFL franchises over the last 5 years. Hiring him as head coach of the Texans and giving him power over hiring assistants and player decisions is nothing more than a complete crap shoot with the future of the Texan franchise. The fact that the new head coach is a hard core Aggie with potential biases against UT players is not comforting as they consider the most important player talent decision in the history of the franchise. Aggies are never rational when it comes to UT, especially in the wake of UT's huge success this year.

This is especially concerning because Bob did not fire Charlie and hire a superior GM to lead the player personnel decisions. Instead of hiring a strong GM who could make cold eyed assessments of the Texan talent base and potential draftees and free agents, he kept a failed GM with a need to justify prior decisions who can only succeed with a seasoned, superior head coach who has mastered talent evaluations and possesses superior coaching skills. Amazingly, he has hired a rookie head coach to pair with a clearly failed GM who cannot succeed without a superior head coach. Unbelievable!!!! How did Bob McNair ever accumulate a huge fortune with such disastrous decision making?

In summary, Bob McNair's is a great guy, but his failed decisions are at the root of all the Texans' problems and there is no evidence that he has learned anything from his prior mistakes. This is especially distressing because there is no one in the organization that has proven to be capable of making sound personnel decisions at any level. This distress is compounded by the reality that the Texans most likely have the most valuable NFL draft pick in countless years and no one who can make the right call. Everything points to the Texans screwing up the first pick in the draft and passing on the most superior football talent in a generation.

PLEASE BOB, STOP AND THINK!!! Vince Young is a phenomenon that cannot be microanalyzed or left to unproven coaches or failed GMs to evaluate. Vince has unquestionably proven to be a superior athletic talent with icewater in his veins who is also a very rare leader who lifts all around him to over achieve at the highest level on the biggest stages in the most spectacluar ways. David Carr is a nice guy and a decent talent with questionable leadership skills, attitude and work ethic. Is he really the superior leader with the dedication and the greatest potential to lead the Texans to a championship? Who would you want at the controls with a minute to go and needing 75 yards to score the winning touchdown or lose the Super Bowl?

Bob, please, please do not subject Houston to the indignity of helplessly watching the Texans make the dumbest draft move since Sam Bowie and then possibly suffering the ultimate indignity of watching Vince lead Bud Adams to the promised land because you listened to the so called experts around you who have no proven ability to make even the obvious talent decisions. If you do this to Houston, you will have completely destroyed the last of the goodwill you have created in the hearts of many Houston fans with inevitable consequences for the value of your franchise and the spirit of our community. Even the biggest Vince naysayers among Texan fans will never forgive you if Vince lands with Bud Adams and takes the Titans to Super Bowl win(s). No one will ever judge you adversely if by some miracle David Carr or Reggie Bush ever wins a Super Bowl with anyone else.

All of Texas is watching you. You can win a lot of hearts if you make the right decision and lose a lot of hearts if you do not. The problem is that you have to dispassionately reassess your failed decision making process that made the Texans the worst franchise in the NFL in 2005 and focus on the big picture of the unbelievable opportunity you have with the first draft pick this year. Even Bud Adams had the sense to take Earl Campbell.
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Old 01-23-2006   #2
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Oh please, lets not get this started!

Yall, lets leave this one alone and maybe it will just go away.
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Old 01-23-2006   #3
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Yah..the title was enough to tell me that this is a waste of time.. im not going to read it.

Im with ya Wharton..leaving it alone.
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Old 01-23-2006   #4
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Where's our "Draft VY or we'll forever rue the day we didn't." forcefield. Surely we can borrow some anti-spam programs and install them on this message board.
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Old 01-23-2006   #5
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I had a strange feeling that this would develop into a draft Vince Young thread.
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Old 01-23-2006   #6
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Agree or not about Vince. His points about Casserly and Capers were right on.
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Old 01-23-2006   #7
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Wish i had the last 180 seconds of my life back after reading that.
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Old 01-23-2006   #8
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Can newbies have restrictions on starting threads? That may help keep the peace around here for the next couple months. Will keep the VY and RB noise ratio down a bit.



*psst to the newbies.....Bob owns the Texans, don't mess with him too much or he will have your seats revoked!*
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Old 01-23-2006   #9
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woot....the Bush fan b0i Vince haters out in full force today, huh? Someone pointed out something very interesting about ol Bob....

he is a billionaire and all that noise? business man, huh? He knows whats good for his wallet and it isn't Reggie Bush.
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Old 01-23-2006   #10
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I read the post. While I disagree with many of his points, he makes a valid one in regards to Casserly and McNair's decision to retain him.

- Casserly was a questionable hire from Day 1, and since then he's done absolutely nothing to impress. I am completely convinced that a monkey throwing darts at a draft list couldn't do any worse than he has in rounds 2-7 (I give him no credit for Andre & Dunta as unless you're a complete moron it's hard to miss on picks that high).

- Furthermore, for some reason McNair is retaining both Reeves and Casserly (poor decision that apparently is causing a lot of politics internally). He needs to make a decision and cut one of them loose.

- I like the Kubiak hire a lot. This Kubiak faults Kubiak because there is "no evidence that he can master the complexities of leading a NFL franchise to the highest level". Well, guess what? There aren't a whole lot of active coaches who HAVE displayed a mastery of leading a team to "the highest level". Kubiak has a long, steady track history at Denver, where he called all the plays. He has earned a crack at a HC job, and I think he'll do well, PROVIDED that he is committed to bringing in a top-level defensive coordinator in here so he can focus on the offense.

- I would love nothing more than to see VY in a Texans uniform. But you can't draft him just b/c he's a hometown guy and will sell tickets. Bottom-line, winning sells tickets and the Texans need to do whatever they think will make them win the quickest.
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Old 01-23-2006   #11
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Is this a "Fire Bob McNair" thread? Is that even possible?
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Old 01-23-2006   #12
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I like McNair as an owner. He had the sense to bring in a football man to evaluate his whole organization. That tells me he truely wants to improve. Long as the owner wants to win and is willing to back the franchise with money, I have no fault with him, which is why I support Jerry though just about everyone hates him.
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Old 01-23-2006   #13
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At first, I wasn't going to address this, but it seems like you are giving an honest effort. Some of what you say is correct, while a lot of it demonstrates obvious logical gaps. Here are the highlights:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDiehard
* Hired Charlie Casserly despite a very questionable track record on draft picks and free agent acquisitions. He was known then as a great compiler of player data who was clueless about how to properly evaluate talent. Not surprisingly, he has compiled one of the worst drafting and free agent acquisition track records in the history of the NFL since joining the Texans and not having Joe Gibbs as a crosscheck.

Veteran NFL minds knew Charlie road Joe Gibbs coattails at Washington and was out of a job when McNair hired him because the rest of the league realized that Washington succeeded because of Joe Gibbs superior abilities in spite on Charlie's talent evaluation deficiencies. Bob confused Charlie's strong technical expertise with sound talent evaluation ability and hired a GM who could only succeed if he had a superior head coach to make the ultimate personnel judgements. Then he hired a head coach who needed a superior GM.

* Hired Dom Capers despite a very questionable track record as a first class guy, but a head coach who needed superior talent to succeed, who was hyper conservative and incapable of inspiring a sound offensive strategy, who was not a strong game day coach with superior adjustment abilities, who had difficulty evaluating and hiring superior assistant coaches, who put personal loyalty in coaching personnel decisions above sound football judgement and who lost the confidence of his players when all these flaws became apparent. What a surprise that Dom had the same issues in Houston. Bob hired a head coach that could only succeed with a GM that was a superior talent evaluator and then shortchanged the investment in coordinators who could compensate for Dom's deficiencies.
Somewhat true, but as much as I hate to say it, you are generalizing both Capers and Cass and working from hindsight. Though on a general basis, I will agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDiehard
* Hired Dan Reeves to consult. Dan is a great guy with a track record of taking teams deep into the playoffs without winning the big one. He is also a guy who has been out of the league for awhile because of the perception that the game has passed him bye. Dan's contribution is to convince Bob to do the obvious and fire Capers, but to amazingly retain Charlie despite one of the worst draft and free agent track records in league history. The basis for this being that the talent wasn't being "coached up". Does any serious football mind really believe the Texans have more than 3 or 4 players who could start on a playoff team regardless of the coaching? How can anyone believe retaining Charlie makes any since at all?
Your misconception is that "playoff teams" start 22 great or even above-average players. They don't. This isn't an overtalented team by any means, but there are a lot of people (myself included) who would argue that we are talented enough as we are, maybe even to make the playoffs, or possibly, that we are missing only a handful of the components (i.e. big-threat playmaker, new QB, better OL, etc.). Amongst those of us who would make that assertion, many of us point to bad coaching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDiehard
* Hired Gary Kubiak as head coach. Gary may or may not be a good coach but there is absolutely no evidence that he can master the complexities of leading a NFL franchise to the highest level. The great successes in his coaching resume have come under Mike Shanahan and with John Elway at the controls of the offense. The Bronces have never made it to the highest level without John Elway. I hope Gary proves to be a great head coach, but he has been passed over as a head coaching candidate by countless other NFL franchises over the last 5 years. Hiring him as head coach of the Texans and giving him power over hiring assistants and player decisions is nothing more than a complete crap shoot with the future of the Texan franchise. The fact that the new head coach is a hard core Aggie with potential biases against UT players is not comforting as they consider the most important player talent decision in the history of the franchise. Aggies are never rational when it comes to UT, especially in the wake of UT's huge success this year.
This is where you fall out of orbit and careen off into space. (A) Kubiak has not been passed over so much as he has received offers and many interviews, but has for the most part turned down the positions, opting to stay in Denver. (B) The UT-Aggs argument is positively stupid. Every coach has an alma mater, and no hiring decision is made on the basis of where he did or did not come from. It is patently stupid to assume that Kubiak will pass over Vince Young or anyone else because of where he played: everyone in the NFL played somewhere once, and there is absolutely no record of discontent or personnel decisions being made on that basis.

All of the NFL great coaches started out at the bottom and worked their way up. Since Bill Belichek, Mike Holmgren, or any other elite coach in the league this year is - surprisingly - currently still employed, we obviously had to take a chance on someone. Either give a has-been a second chance, or take a risk on an unproven guy. Kubiak is about as proven as they get, and it amazes me that you would write him off because he worked with Elway, assuming that Elway was the sole reason for Denver's success. Kubiak's offenses have been repeatedly successful and the Broncos were, last I checked 13-3 this year in a very tough division/conference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDiehard
This is especially concerning because Bob did not fire Charlie and hire a superior GM to lead the player personnel decisions. Instead of hiring a strong GM who could make cold eyed assessments of the Texan talent base and potential draftees and free agents, he kept a failed GM with a need to justify prior decisions who can only succeed with a seasoned, superior head coach who has mastered talent evaluations and possesses superior coaching skills. Amazingly, he has hired a rookie head coach to pair with a clearly failed GM who cannot succeed without a superior head coach. Unbelievable!!!! How did Bob McNair ever accumulate a huge fortune with such disastrous decision making?
No comment. Am I to speculate you were never one of his advisors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDiehard
In summary, Bob McNair's is a great guy, but his failed decisions are at the root of all the Texans' problems and there is no evidence that he has learned anything from his prior mistakes. This is especially distressing because there is no one in the organization that has proven to be capable of making sound personnel decisions at any level. This distress is compounded by the reality that the Texans most likely have the most valuable NFL draft pick in countless years and no one who can make the right call. Everything points to the Texans screwing up the first pick in the draft and passing on the most superior football talent in a generation.
And how did I smell this segue into what was coming next?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDiehard
PLEASE BOB, STOP AND THINK!!! Vince Young is a phenomenon that cannot be microanalyzed or left to unproven coaches or failed GMs to evaluate. Vince has unquestionably proven to be a superior athletic talent with icewater in his veins who is also a very rare leader who lifts all around him to over achieve at the highest level on the biggest stages in the most spectacluar ways.

VINCE BLA BLA BLA BLA (*edited for content*)
What is impressive is that you spent a good half of this extremely long post attempting to make critical analysis of the Texans franchise, and then the next half more or less blindly praising - yet again, have never heard this before - Vince Young. No matter how many times you say it, it don't make it so.

As for the actual meat of your argument, I have offered my counter-perspective.

Go wild.

I like McNair and he is new to this thing. As far as I can tell, he is doing a damned good job of juggling the whole three-ring circus. Give the man time. I have faith.
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Old 01-23-2006   #14
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I've had to delete 4 posts from this thread due to language violations. Let's try to keep it clean.
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Old 01-23-2006   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky
I've had to delete 4 posts from this thread due to language violations. Let's try to keep it clean.
You guys don't have a bad language filter on this board? I have one on the TexansTalk.com board. For example, if someone types in a - hole (the whole word), it comes out as "Bud Adams".
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Old 01-23-2006   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hookem Horns
You guys don't have a bad language filter on this board? I have one on the TexansTalk.com board. For example, if someone types in a - hole (the whole word), it comes out as "Bud Adams".
Well, we will have to look into one as creative as yours, but unfortunately some people seem to be more interested and talented at getting around language filters than in analyzing football. Maybe someone can start them a creative bad language MB.
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Old 01-23-2006   #17
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I've read the inititial post, and was giving TexasDiehard the benefit of the doubt....until I read this part:

Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasDiehard
PLEASE BOB, STOP AND THINK!!! Vince Young is a phenomenon that cannot be microanalyzed or left to unproven coaches or failed GMs to evaluate.
C'mon now. Before the VY blast, he states that Kubiak has revealed "no evidence that he can master the complexities of leading a NFL franchise to the highest level."

But you already have Young in the football hall of fame?! He hasn't played a down of NFL football, so he's just as untested as the rest of the 2006 draftees.

With such jumps in logic, and blatant inability to support one argument while refraining from diminishing another, I just can't take this thread too seriously.

Bob McNair has been an NFL owner for four (4) freakin' years. Dude had enough business savy to get around the league's apparent desire to give LA a franchise, and he was able to convince the league to give us a team in spite of the odds.

Learn a little NFL history, and more to the point, about NFL owners. Once you have an educated understanding about the past, you might be able to offer a convincing argument about Mr. McNair's job performance as an NFL owner. Otherwise, this is just nonsense at this point in our brief history as a franchise.
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Old 01-23-2006   #18
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Welcome to the boards. You have some really good hits, and some really bad misses here, but on balance, you do make one interesting point. I was especially taken by your analysis of the smybiotic relationship of Capers and Casserly. I think it's a great point. Both guys needed the opposite of what the other was to succeed. I haven't seen that analysis elsewhere, but I think it's a VERY well taken point.

Elsewhere, you are prone to exageration, hyperbole, guesswork, esp, and deception to make your pro Vince arguments.

A few points that stand out on the negative:

CC has compiled one of the worst drafting and free agent acquisition track records in the history of the NFL since joining the Texans

Wow. CC hasn't had great drafts, but that's a MAJOR stretch. Try again.

Dan's contribution is to convince Bob to do the obvious and fire Capers, but to amazingly retain Charlie despite one of the worst draft and free agent track records in league history.

Dan's contribution was to tell Mcnair what ails the franchise according to Dan. Apparently, Dan disagrees with you. Maybe Mcnair should hire you instead since you seem to have all the answers. And again, an extreme exagraration of Casserly's record.

Gary may or may not be a good coach but there is absolutely no evidence that he can master the complexities of leading a NFL franchise to the highest level.

Of course there isn't. There also is no evidence he can't, but you left that out to make your point. No coordinator has proof. Hiring anyone without HC is a bit of a crapshoot. Of course the Capers hiring, who did have HC worked out so great didn't it. Using your philosphy, the NFL would simply recycle the same 32 coaches. Maybe we should have hired Don Shula.

Everything points to the Texans screwing up the first pick in the draft and passing on the most superior football talent in a generation.

Kubiak hasn't even been hired yet, and it's not even Feb but somehow the Texans have screwed up the pick? How can you even possibly know what they are going to do, or is your name Kreskin? Even if they don't take Vince, and take Reggie, we won't know for several years who screwed up, and who didn't. Try taking a chill pill.

If you do this to Houston, you will have completely destroyed the last of the goodwill you have created in the hearts of many Houston fans with inevitable consequences for the value of your franchise and the spirit of our community.

Speak for yourself. Not taking Vince won't do a thing to me. It will to the UT fans that want Vince. I am a Texans fan, and yes, I think Young is the right choice, but you fail to point out any of the pitfalls, or any of his weaknesses. Like any prospect, he is not a no risk pick, and you lost your chance at any real objective analyis and showed your true colors at what I will call the "Vince is God. All kneel before thee" section. I am a huge Vince fan, but this is getting really annoying. :brickwall
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Old 01-23-2006   #19
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Default Thank you Mr. McNair for bringing the NFL back to Houston!

It had to be said. Maybe those with all the grand ideas should pool the change out of their piggy banks and buy an NFL team they can run into the ground themselves.

Mr. McNair should be THANKED profusely for bringing us a team!
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Old 01-23-2006   #20
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Wasn't there a sticky thread saying please stop making new VY/RB threads?
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