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Say no to our Jake Plummer clone in Houston

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TexansFight

TexansFight

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If we are LUCKY the best we can hope for in David Carr is that he turn into what Jake Plummer is. Meaning a guy who won't lose you games and just manages the game but who is not a star. Well that type of QB is not the type of guy that will lead you to the Super Bowl. Jake Plummer still makes stupid rookie mistakes the same as David Carr. He has a 3/4 throwing motion like our guy. You guys would rather have that type of QB than VY. It shows you that our fans are content with losing and losers. David Carr is a loser. Get rid of him.
 
TexansFight said:
If we are LUCKY the best we can hope for in David Carr is that he turn into what Jake Plummer is. Meaning a guy who won't lose you games and just manages the game but who is not a star. Well that type of QB is not the type of guy that will lead you to the Super Bowl. Jake Plummer still makes stupid rookie mistakes the same as David Carr. He has a 3/4 throwing motion like our guy. You guys would rather have that type of QB than VY. It shows you that our fans are content with losing and losers. David Carr is a loser. Get rid of him.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to bash Carr today but I have never been a Plummer fan and what I am seeing now does not impress me. He has gotten really lucky on some bad throws that his receivers bailed him out on. The reason they are in the hole to have to comeback is some of his mistakes. You will lose some big games with a guy like that.
 
TexansFight said:
If we are LUCKY the best we can hope for in David Carr is that he turn into what Jake Plummer is. Meaning a guy who won't lose you games and just manages the game but who is not a star. Well that type of QB is not the type of guy that will lead you to the Super Bowl. Jake Plummer still makes stupid rookie mistakes the same as David Carr. He has a 3/4 throwing motion like our guy. You guys would rather have that type of QB than VY. It shows you that our fans are content with losing and losers. David Carr is a loser. Get rid of him.
Click to expand...
The only thing around here that can be associated with a "loser" is posts like this. First of all Carr and Plummer, two completely different men, two completely different QBs, playing in two completely different systems. I love it how people try to say "Player A" can't do this, because "Player B" failed at it. That argument is the most weak and tiresome in all of sports.

I also find it funny how you say you wouldn't want a qb that won't lose you games and just manages the game but is not a star.

QBs that fit that mold:
Ben Rothlisburger (how ever you spell his name)
Jake Delhome
Tom Brady
 
I was wondering how long it would take for someone to take a shot a Carr based on Plummer's performance today. I'm actually surprised it took to get to the 4th quarter.
 
Carr Bomb said:
The only thing around here that can be associated with a "loser" is posts like this. First of all Carr and Plummer, two completely different men, two completely different QBs, playing in two completely different systems. I love it how people try to say "Player A" can't do this, because "Player B" failed at it. That argument is the most weak and tiresome in all of sports.

I also find it funny how you say you wouldn't want a qb that won't lose you games and just manages the game but is not a star.

QBs that fit that mold:
Ben Rothlisburger (how ever you spell his name)
Jake Delhome
Tom Brady
Click to expand...

I agree with the top part of your post, comparisons in systems is not fair. But I will disagree on guys who only manage games being the guys you listed. Brady was throwing for 300 yard games this year and was their whole offense for many games this year with a hurt backfield. Delhomme, same thing with Steve Smith. Reothlisberger did alot of dunk passing last year but is much more capable as this game is showing.
 
a jake plummer is playing in the AFC championship game... I am sure if we were playing in the AFC championship game with Carr...
we wouldn't be talking about not taking a David Carr clone
:confused:
 
Agreed wolf,i was just fixin to say that but since you did i'll say this.Its time to get off your knees and zip up VY's pants
 
HoustonFrog said:
I agree with the top part of your post, comparisons in systems is not fair. But I will disagree on guys who only manage games being the guys you listed. Brady was throwing for 300 yard games this year and was their whole offense for many games this year with a hurt backfield. Delhomme, same thing with Steve Smith. Reothlisberger did alot of dunk passing last year but is much more capable as this game is showing.
Click to expand...

Tom Brady had to step up his game this year due to all the injuries, but during the superbowl runs he managed games.

Before the playoffs Ben was just asked to manage games. (he only threw like 18 passes a game) Even in the playoffs as soon as the steelers jump out to a lead he just manages the game.

Delhome had a great game against the Bears and as soon as Foster went down he had to take a bigger role, but again he is a game manager
 
How many INT's does Plummer average a season over his career? How many does Carr? That differential right there is enough to show that Carr will not be Plummer clone, he will be much better.
 
Im sorry but i think this thread is waste We have seen david For 4 years David will never be half the QB Jake Plummer is and that is not saying much:stirpot:


Oh and jake had alot of int's in arizona because he wasnt affraid trying to win unlike other QB's that i will not mentioned that would take a sack instead of trying to win the game. for the sake of how good the stat will look:superman:
 
run-david-run said:
How many INT's does Plummer average a season over his career? How many does Carr? That differential right there is enough to show that Carr will not be Plummer clone, he will be much better.
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If your going to use that comparision, how many passes do each of them average? I'm willing to bet that the guy that throws less passes also throws less INTs.
 
Carr Bomb said:
Tom Brady had to step up his game this year due to all the injuries, but during the superbowl runs he managed games.

Before the playoffs Ben was just asked to manage games. (he only threw like 18 passes a game) Even in the playoffs as soon as the steelers jump out to a lead he just manages the game.

Delhome had a great game against the Bears and as soon as Foster went down he had to take a bigger role, but again he is a game manager
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I just think those three are much more big time game players compared to many we see. Brady with his MVP type years seemed to do more than manage games. The coaches trust him. Same with Delhomme, when they made the SB he was throwing it deep. Roethlisberger I can see that, as I said but he has stepped out of that shadow. I look at the "manage the game" type guy though as someone the coach doesn't trust. I think the coaches have full faith in all of those guys taking over.

As for the original post. Unfair comparison in my book so I can see where people are frustrated. But considering that most of the board was talking last week that Kubiak would make Carr like Plummer, you knew it was coming..lol
 
Napa Auto Parts said:
Im sorry but i think this thread is waste We have seen david For 4 years David will never be half the QB Jake Plummer is and that is not saying much:stirpot:


Oh and jake had alot of int's in arizona because he wasnt affraid trying to win unlike other QB's that i will not mentioned that would take a sack instead of trying to win the game. for the sake of how good the stat will look:superman:
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Yeah he was really trying to win today, huh, because throwing the ball to the other team is SO much better than just taking a sack and living to fight another day........please.

Could you imagine Plummer playing behind our line, especially if he just throws it up for grabs everytime he feels pressure.
 
Carr Bomb said:
I also find it funny how you say you wouldn't want a qb that won't lose you games and just manages the game but is not a star.

QBs that fit that mold:
Ben Rothlisburger (how ever you spell his name)
Jake Delhome
Tom Brady
Click to expand...

Terrible comparisons, especially Brady and Rothlesburger. Get real.
 
Carr Bomb said:
Yeah he was really trying to win today, huh, because throwing the ball to the other team is SO much better than just taking a sack and living to fight another day........please.

Could you imagine Plummer playing behind our line, especially if he just throws it up for grabs everytime he feels pressure.
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there is no other day in the playoffs and i was reffering to his arizona days:ok: oh better than taking a sack or a Fumble
 
HoustonFrog said:
I just think those three are much more big time game players compared to many we see. Brady with his MVP type years seemed to do more than manage even. The coaches trust him. Same with Delhomme, even when they made the SB. Roethlisberger I can see that, as I said. I look at the "maange the game" type guy though as someone the coach doesn't trust. I think the coaches have full faith in all of those guys taking over.

As for the original post. Unfair comparison in my book so I can see where people are frustrated. But considering that most of the board was talking last week that Kubiak would make Carr like Plummer, you knew it was coming..lol
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I don't think because a qb is asked to manage a game it means the coach doesn't trust them or they aren't capable of taking over a game. The three qbs I mentioned are very capable of taking over a game. I think its just the system they play in. If you noticed the three guys I mentioned they all have one thing is common, They are lead by Defensive coaches. Defensive coaches have a run first mentality, preach mistake free football, play a field position game, and believe there defense and running game will win the game. That is why they ask their qbs to manage the game.
 
Texansfight gets a zero for style points, but a 9 on substance. It's not as if Plummer and Carr haven't been compared as being similar in many ways before today. I have mentioned many times that Carr reminds me of Plummer more than any other QB. Many of us mentioned here how the Kubiak hiring was good because maybe Carr could become what Plummer has become. I think, and hope that is possible, but we really don't know. I think the million dollar question the Texans have to answer is, can they win with a Plummer clone if they put the right pieces around him, or do they need a serious upgrade. If you look around the league historically, how many Jake Plummer types have put their team in the SB? Sure, if you are the 2000 Ravens and have a shutdown D, maybe so. But, they haven't been back. The examples on the other hand of having a dominant QB taking a team to multiple SB's are endless - Bradshaw, Montana, Brady, Staubach, Aikman, Young, Favre are some that come to mind.
 
Grid said:
boy.. we have a penchant towards judging everything on game's performance in this fanbase.
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From what I've been hearing on the radio, and reading on this board lately, if fanbase was biggest factor in how I follow a team . . .

. . . I'd root against the Texans every Sunday.
 
Napa Auto Parts said:
there is no other day in the playoffs and i was reffering to his arizona days:ok: oh better than taking a sack or a Fumble
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The problem with Plummer is that at times he doesn't play within himself, also it doesn't help that he was going up againt the buzzsaw that is the pittsburgh defense, I think we aren't giving them enough credit, they have played back to back marvelous games.
 
Porky said:
Texansfight gets a zero for style points, but a 9 on substance. It's not as if Plummer and Carr haven't been compared as being similar in many ways before today. I have mentioned many times that Carr reminds me of Plummer more than any other QB. Many of us mentioned here how the Kubiak hiring was good because maybe Carr could become what Plummer has become. I think, and hope that is possible, but we really don't know. I think the million dollar question the Texans have to answer is, can they win with a Plummer clone if they put the right pieces around him, or do they need a serious upgrade. If you look around the league historically, how many Jake Plummer types have put their team in the SB? Sure, if you are the 2000 Ravens and have a shutdown D, maybe so. But, they haven't been back. The examples on the other hand of having a dominant QB taking a team to multiple SB's are endless - Bradshaw, Montana, Brady, Staubach, Aikman, Young, Favre are some that come to mind.
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Great Post
 
Carr Bomb said:
I don't think because a qb is asked to manage a game it means the coach doesn't trust them or they aren't capable of taking over a game. The three qbs I mentioned are very capable of taking over a game. I think its just the system they play in. If you noticed the three guys I mentioned they all have one thing is common, They are lead by Defensive coaches. Defensive coaches have a run first mentality, preach mistake free football, play a field position game, and believe there defense and running game will win the game. That is why they ask their qbs to manage the game.
Click to expand...

I see what you are saying. Good points. I just don't look at those three. I see more of a Trent Dilfer or Kyle Orton(earlier this year) as typical manage, don't lose guys.
 
Napa Auto Parts said:
Great Post
Click to expand...

Agreed. Porky is spot on!

If you are trying to win a SB with a quarterback who just manages the game, the talent around him must be far superior to ther opponents. Since most of us agree that we need at least 3 OL, 2 DB, TE, 2 LB, and 1 WR, how long do you think it will take to amass this talent - 2, 3 years.

Also, remember, when the Ravens won the SB, they had very powerful down hill runner who could take over games and finish off opponents. I like DD, but he doesn't have that kind of talent.
 
Porky said:
It's not as if Plummer and Carr haven't been compared as being similar in many ways before today. I have mentioned many times that Carr reminds me of Plummer more than any other QB. Many of us mentioned here how the Kubiak hiring was good because maybe Carr could become what Plummer has become. I think, and hope that is possible, but we really don't know. I think the million dollar question the Texans have to answer is, can they win with a Plummer clone if they put the right pieces around him
Click to expand...

Pittsburg made Plummer look as bad as Carr today. And the Pittsburg coaches made the Denver coaches look like saps. It's clear from this single game that the Denver schemes, offensive and defensive, are outmoded, readily beatable, insufficient in today's NFL. I only hope that Kubiak understands that you NEED EXTRAORDINARY PLAYERS, and that you have to PLAN TO BEAT POWER as well as finesse.

If he doesn't learn that lesson today the Texans will suffer for the next 4 years.
 
Nighthawk said:
Pittsburg made Plummer look as bad as Carr today. And the Pittsburg coaches made the Denver coaches look like saps. It's clear from this single game that the Denver schemes, offensive and defensive, are outmoded, readily beatable, insufficient in today's NFL. I only hope that Kubiak understands that you NEED EXTRAORDINARY PLAYERS, and that you have to PLAN TO BEAT POWER as well as finesse.

If he doesn't learn that lesson today the Texans will suffer for the next 4 years.
Click to expand...


On top of that the Steeler's D made Indy look bad too.
 
TexansFight said:
If we are LUCKY the best we can hope for in David Carr is that he turn into what Jake Plummer is. Meaning a guy who won't lose you games and just manages the game but who is not a star. Well that type of QB is not the type of guy that will lead you to the Super Bowl. Jake Plummer still makes stupid rookie mistakes the same as David Carr. He has a 3/4 throwing motion like our guy. You guys would rather have that type of QB than VY. It shows you that our fans are content with losing and losers. David Carr is a loser. Get rid of him.
Click to expand...


Oh god. I swear being a Texans fan is so hard when you have to be associated with "fans" like you.

And get off of VY sack already....geez, one game against a 32nd ranked defense and he people start praying to him instead of Jesus.
 
I just want to know what all of the guys with man-crushes on Vince Christ, I mean, Vince Young would do if he came here and completely flopped. I don't want to imagine the excuses, that would be hilarious!!!!!
 
If only Plummer had some talent around him..... oh wait. .... never mind.

Actually Plummer did some things today that Carr can't do - even if he had five pro bowlers in front of him - and that's escape from intense pressure while inside the pocket. Jake pulled some Houdini's several times in the second half. Carr almost always looks for the turf in the same situation.

I was wondering who was going to start it... we should have had an off the board pool.
 
You know what, you're right. Plummer only got them to the AFC championship game. We don't need anyone like that around here. Boo him off the field. That's much more effective. I know no one wants a player to succeed given controversy. Goodness people. He had a bad day against a very strong defense. They were one game away from the Super Bowl. I'll take that from our 2-14 season we had this year. Take things in context please. The Denver Broncos are in that game for a reason, and that reason is that they had a dominant running game and a QB who let his runningbacks stay in the game by not throwing INTs. He made some mistakes, but his team went to the AFC championship game. If Kubiak can take Plummer and get him to lower his mistakes, I think he can do the same for Carr, and we will make it to the playoffs.
 
I don't think everyone who comments on Carr or Plummer is a VY homer. Again, I'm not one that ripped Carr in this thread and I don't think you can compare people in different systems BUT in giving the guy some credit, you knew this was coming due to the fact that many of the "Kubiak keeping Carr" posts had to do with what he did for Plummer. It was only a matter of time.
 
TexansFight said:
If we are LUCKY the best we can hope for in David Carr is that he turn into what Jake Plummer is. Meaning a guy who won't lose you games and just manages the game but who is not a star. Well that type of QB is not the type of guy that will lead you to the Super Bowl. Jake Plummer still makes stupid rookie mistakes the same as David Carr. He has a 3/4 throwing motion like our guy. You guys would rather have that type of QB than VY. It shows you that our fans are content with losing and losers. David Carr is a loser. Get rid of him.
Click to expand...
Plummer looked a lot like Peyton Manning, Eli Manning and Tom Brady and all the other QB's who are put under a lot of pressure by a GREAT defenses.

Show me a QB that plays well when they are under constant pressure all day and the other team has a good secondary.
 
I agree with the sentiment of the original post. I don't want a "serviceable" quarterback. I want a great quarterback. A field general. True, there is no one man team - but I want a man who is willing to take the team on his shoulders because he feels like the buck stops with him. I want the next Brett Favre, Joe Montana, John Elway. I know that those QBs don't come around every day, but I don't want to give up the ideal.

If the Texans try to build around David Carr, they are going to have to upgrade far more than just the running back position. This could be a never-ending project.
 
It also helps when Champ had 6 going the other way early in the game and yet it bounced off of him and Ward catches.. If I am not mistaken that was a 10 point swing because the Steelers go a field goal out of it.
 
TexansFight said:
If we are LUCKY the best we can hope for in David Carr is that he turn into what Jake Plummer is. Meaning a guy who won't lose you games and just manages the game but who is not a star. Well that type of QB is not the type of guy that will lead you to the Super Bowl. Jake Plummer still makes stupid rookie mistakes the same as David Carr. He has a 3/4 throwing motion like our guy. You guys would rather have that type of QB than VY. It shows you that our fans are content with losing and losers. David Carr is a loser. Get rid of him.
Click to expand...

To turn Carr into a Plummer Clone, you're going to have to do some serious DNA splicing. Carr, IMHO ain't nothing like him. I'd say Carr is more of a Tom Brady, Jake Delhomme, type of QB. His mobility is just to get him out of trouble. He's not a playmaker out of the pocket. Once David breaks the pocket, if he can scramble for a first down, he should go for it. but if that ain't there, he needs to throw it away. He's not the kind of QB who should try to buy time, and make a big play.
 
LBC_Justin said:
Plummer looked a lot like Peyton Manning, Eli Manning and Tom Brady and all the other QB's who are put under a lot of pressure by a GREAT defenses.

Show me a QB that plays well when they are under constant pressure all day and the other team has a good secondary.
Click to expand...

I don't think Plummer's problems today were all pressure induced. He made many throws on his own that went awry and made some very bad decisions that did not get him in trouble but that were tossing it up for grabs nonetheless.
 
TexansFight said:
. He has a 3/4 throwing motion like our guy. You guys would rather have that type of QB than VY.
Click to expand...


you lost all credibility right there talking about the 3/4 motion that Carr has.. What is vince's?? 3/5??
 
HoustonFrog said:
I don't think Plummer's problems today were all pressure induced. He made many throws on his own that went awry and made some very bad decisions that did not get him in trouble but that were tossing it up for grabs nonetheless.
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Exactly ...Kubiak needs to get Carr to play within himself.. plummer got impatient and was looking for the 14 point or the play to tie the game up..

Of couse the Steelers weren't worried about the run anymore.. they smelled blood and just went after the QB
 
Wolf said:
you lost all credibility right there talking about the 3/4 motion that Carr has.. What is vince's?? 3/5??
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Yeah, but Vince could have single-handedly beaten the Steelers. :rolleyes:
 
TexansFight said:
If we are LUCKY the best we can hope for in David Carr is that he turn into what Jake Plummer is. Meaning a guy who won't lose you games and just manages the game but who is not a star. Well that type of QB is not the type of guy that will lead you to the Super Bowl. Jake Plummer still makes stupid rookie mistakes the same as David Carr. He has a 3/4 throwing motion like our guy. You guys would rather have that type of QB than VY. It shows you that our fans are content with losing and losers. David Carr is a loser. Get rid of him.
Click to expand...


I was wondering how long it would take someone to start this thread ....
 
bigtex77 said:
I just want to know what all of the guys with man-crushes on Vince Christ, I mean, Vince Young would do if he came here and completely flopped. I don't want to imagine the excuses, that would be hilarious!!!!!
Click to expand...

I guess about what we have been doing the last 4 years with flopping Carr.
 
HoustonFrog said:
I agree with the top part of your post, comparisons in systems is not fair. But I will disagree on guys who only manage games being the guys you listed. Brady was throwing for 300 yard games this year and was their whole offense for many games this year with a hurt backfield. Delhomme, same thing with Steve Smith. Reothlisberger did alot of dunk passing last year but is much more capable as this game is showing.
Click to expand...


I agree with your dis agreement, but I see thes QBs totally different.

First, Carolina is a run oriented system. play action passing, and the QB is only supposed to take what the Defense gives them. But steve Smith really opens up what the defense will give you. It's hard to make a mistake with that guy out there. But Jake, is a game manager, a don't loose the game for us QB. I'm not taking anything away from him, he's trully made a name for himself, and should be compared to the great quarterbacks from years past. But he isn't a Starbuck, Bradshaw, or a Warren Moon. He's a far cry from Trent Dilfer, but plays in a similar system......... Steve Smith just changes everything.

Ben RothlisBerg, is actually a better snake, than Jake the Snake. His play is similar. really.

Tom Brady is in a sweet system, for a qb. Much like Kurt Warner from his ST Louis Rams Super Bowl days. These systems are both different, but they are made for a QB to excell. You couldn't stick any QB in ST Louis, and expect them to succeed, but you could put in any of a certain type. Gunslingers, with quick releases, and the ability to read quick. The plays are drawn up according to certain situations, and designed to free up certain players. With the people they had in St Louis, they were able to dictate not only what coverage the defense would play, but the personnel they put on the field. That was truly an amazing team, and Martz was truly a genius.... but I don't know if he, or anyone could do that again.

Tom Brady is a bit of a Gunslinger, but he's smart too. Not Peyton Manning Smart, but smart. Their plays generally dictate the defense, and their schemes usually beat that defense. Brady isn't really a game manager, he's got to do more, than just not make mistakes.
 
Carr Bomb said:
I don't think because a qb is asked to manage a game it means the coach doesn't trust them or they aren't capable of taking over a game. The three qbs I mentioned are very capable of taking over a game. I think its just the system they play in. If you noticed the three guys I mentioned they all have one thing is common, They are lead by Defensive coaches. Defensive coaches have a run first mentality, preach mistake free football, play a field position game, and believe there defense and running game will win the game. That is why they ask their qbs to manage the game.
Click to expand...


Other than those St Louis teams, has there ever been a West Coast Offense, or a Run and Shoot offense to win the Big one, or have long term success??


Football is won on defense, and between the tackles. I totally agree with that.
 
thunderkyss said:
Other than those St Louis teams, has there ever been a West Coast Offense, or a Run and Shoot offense to win the Big one, or have long term success??


Football is won on defense, and between the tackles. I totally agree with that.
Click to expand...

I might be wrong here, but didn't SF win 5 superbowls with the west coast and didn't GB win one with Farve using the west coast? I am not sure though, but I will try to find it out.
 
Nighthawk said:
Pittsburg made Plummer look as bad as Carr today. And the Pittsburg coaches made the Denver coaches look like saps. It's clear from this single game that the Denver schemes, offensive and defensive, are outmoded, readily beatable, insufficient in today's NFL. I only hope that Kubiak understands that you NEED EXTRAORDINARY PLAYERS, and that you have to PLAN TO BEAT POWER as well as finesse.

If he doesn't learn that lesson today the Texans will suffer for the next 4 years.
Click to expand...

Don't forget, Pittsburg did the same thing to INDY, so it's not just that Denver's scheming and coaching is outmoded/outdated........ Pittsburg wants to win a Superbowl, and sombody told them that defenses win SuperBowls.


That, and I think Kubiak got hooked on Vince Young highlight film.
 
thunderkyss said:
Other than those St Louis teams, has there ever been a West Coast Offense, or a Run and Shoot offense to win the Big one, or have long term success??


Football is won on defense, and between the tackles. I totally agree with that.
Click to expand...


Check this sight out:

http://www.westcoastoffense.com/

And

http://www.e-sports.com/articles/71/1/Bill-Walsh:-Legacy-of-"The-Genius"

It says, "Since Walsh became the head coach of the San Francisco 49ers in 1979, 25 Super Bowls have been played. Of those 25 Super Bowls, Walsh and his disciples have won 10, while 11of the 29 coaches who have participated in that game over that same time span are also linked to him."



To answer your questions.
 
bigtex77 said:
I just want to know what all of the guys with man-crushes on Vince Christ, I mean, Vince Young would do if he came here and completely flopped. I don't want to imagine the excuses, that would be hilarious!!!!!
Click to expand...


If we are still loosing games, and Vince is still making the same mistakes he did his rookie season, I'll admit he flopped.

It'd be nice if the guys hanging on Carr's Knutts would do the same.
 
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