Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQDonate Automatic Monthly Contribution Members List Mark Forums Read


Texans Talk Football talk only please. Keep it to the game, the players, the coaches and management.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-22-2006   #1
tsip
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,277
Rep Power: 13 tsip was voted MVPtsip was voted MVPtsip was voted MVP
Default For The Stat 'Mongers'

...just some 'food for thought, take it anyway you want.

QB CAREER STATS/COLLEGE

ATT/COMP YDS TDS

Dave Ragone 664/1133 8544 73
M Applewhite 611/1064 8353 60
D Carr 538/849 7177 64
C Simms 575/941 7097 58

Sure, there are a lot of other stats out there and I'm not trying to put anyone down, but it makes me wonder what the knock is against Ragone by the Texans. He and Carr both had good QB running stats, so it's easy to see why both were drafted, and why Ragone was selected over Simms.
tsip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #2
infantrycak
Lead Moderator
 
infantrycak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Austin, TX
Age: 46
Posts: 44,562
Rep Power: 272958 infantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respectedinfantrycak is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

So what's your point?--BJ's stats blew them all away. I'd like to see Ragone get more play time when Carr is hurt and when the game is beyond redemption, i.e. he should have played quite a bit this last year, but in practice you can clearly see Ragone is not near as consistant as Carr. There's your knock.
__________________
The Art of War
infantrycak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #3
Runner
Hubcap Diamond
 
Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 7,700
Rep Power: 25614 Runner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respectedRunner is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Ragone really should have been given some game time druing this lost season so the Texans could make a wise choice with him. His college career and NFLe play shows that he is has done well at every level he's had playing time. We should know after 3 years if he coud compete at the NFL level. He may just be a bad practice player - there are some of those. I've heard Sharper was better in games than at practice when he was here, for instance.
__________________
Amy glances out the window; her hair, skin, and clothes take on a pronounced reddish tinge from Doppler effect as she drops out of the conversation at relativistic velocity. - Cryptonomicon
Runner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #4
bigTEXan8
All Pro
 
bigTEXan8's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: The 'No, CA
Age: 31
Posts: 919
Rep Power: 10 bigTEXan8 is a team player
Default ***

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runner
Ragone really should have been given some game time druing this lost season so the Texans could make a wise choice with him. His college career and NFLe play shows that he is has done well at every level he's had playing time. We should know after 3 years if he coud compete at the NFL level. He may just be a bad practice player - there are some of those. I've heard Sharper was better in games than at practice when he was here, for instance.
Ragone was good in NFLE because he played against back-ups who are at his same level of talent. The NFLE is for players that will more than likely never get to play in the NFL. Is their a bright shining star ever once in a while, yeah.
__________________
The Lord is my refuge and strength, an ever present help in trouble.
bigTEXan8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #5
Tailgate
Fall of Hame
 
Tailgate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Houston, TX - Born and raised
Age: 36
Posts: 3,153
Rep Power: 27364 Tailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respectedTailgate is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Not sure what the point is here. But I will take it as this. Teams evaluate talent BEFORE they draft them and come to the best conclusions they can before making their selections. There is a reason Carr would have been selected in the first round by any team in the league and Applewhite is now coaching in college instead of playing. At the same time it is not a perfect science.
Tailgate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #6
tsip
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,277
Rep Power: 13 tsip was voted MVPtsip was voted MVPtsip was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
So what's your point?--BJ's stats blew them all away. I'd like to see Ragone get more play time when Carr is hurt and when the game is beyond redemption, i.e. he should have played quite a bit this last year, but in practice you can clearly see Ragone is not near as consistant as Carr. There's your knock.
BJ's Career

489/769 5881 55
tsip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #7
aj.
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 4,769
Rep Power: 658 aj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respectedaj. is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Conclusion: stats can be misleading. Next.
aj. is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored links
Old 01-22-2006   #8
Vinny
shiny happy fan
 
Vinny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Age: 50
Posts: 21,670
Rep Power: 133798 Vinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respectedVinny is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigTEXan8
Ragone was good in NFLE because he played against back-ups who are at his same level of talent. The NFLE is for players that will more than likely never get to play in the NFL. Is their a bright shining star ever once in a while, yeah.
There have been 3 NFLe QB's to start a Pro Bowl.

Also - Stats are for baseball. You have to actually watch football players to form a quality opinion.
__________________
http://twitter.com/#!/TexansTalk


"A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves" - Edward R. Murrow
Vinny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #9
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
 
Kaiser Toro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Straight Outta Austin
Age: 44
Posts: 16,033
Rep Power: 35068 Kaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Major Applewhite, the ghost of Texas past. If there truly is ying for every yang I hope that Chris Simms goes onto be a coach and destroys Applewhite's teams. I do not hate Major as a person or even as a player, I just hate those rabid Major fans who spouted nothing but venom at Simms while they were Sunday morning quarterbacking at Luby's all filled up with fire, brimstone and fried okra.
__________________
Smell the glove is here
Kaiser Toro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #10
tsip
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,277
Rep Power: 13 tsip was voted MVPtsip was voted MVPtsip was voted MVP
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Major Applewhite, the ghost of Texas past. If there truly is ying for every yang I hope that Chris Simms goes onto be a coach and destroys Applewhite's teams. I do not hate Major as a person or even as a player, I just hate those rabid Major fans who spouted nothing but venom at Simms while they were Sunday morning quarterbacking at Luby's all filled up with fire, brimstone and fried okra.
...look at the bright side...now that Major is the new OC for Rice, you can hate him closer to home
tsip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #11
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
 
Kaiser Toro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Straight Outta Austin
Age: 44
Posts: 16,033
Rep Power: 35068 Kaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsip
...look at the bright side...now that Major is the new OC for Rice, you can hate him closer to home
As I said I don't hate Major, just his fans. I am sure when Mack Brown "only" wins 10 games next year and then "only" wins 11 the following you will be hearing plenty of fans calling for Major to be HC at UT. That may be your dream, but that is my nightmare.
__________________
Smell the glove is here
Kaiser Toro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #12
swtbound07
Jackass of Day!
 
swtbound07's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Tampa, Florida
Age: 28
Posts: 9,474
Rep Power: 904 swtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respectedswtbound07 is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vinny
There have been 3 NFLe QB's to start a Pro Bowl.

Also - Stats are for baseball. You have to actually watch football players to form a quality opinion.

if you would have just said "silly rabbit, stats are for baseball" i would have a new signature right now
__________________

Sig by Michaelm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Maher
"I'll show you Obama's birth certificate when you show me Sarah Palin's high school diploma"
swtbound07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #13
profan
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 51
Posts: 368
Rep Power: 11 profan is ridin' the pine
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser Toro
Major Applewhite, the ghost of Texas past. If there truly is ying for every yang I hope that Chris Simms goes onto be a coach and destroys Applewhite's teams. I do not hate Major as a person or even as a player, I just hate those rabid Major fans who spouted nothing but venom at Simms while they were Sunday morning quarterbacking at Luby's all filled up with fire, brimstone and fried okra.
You do not hate him? Seems like you have a major problem. Get over it and keep these comments out of texans talk. There is another section for these comments and it's not in this section.
profan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #14
thunderkyss 
& so it begins
 
thunderkyss's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Texas
Age: 42
Posts: 33,342
Rep Power: 194858 thunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respectedthunderkyss is a quality contributor and well respected
Send a message via Yahoo to thunderkyss
Default

There are so many things that don't show up on the stat chart, that goes into evaluating a QB, it really is hard to say. I've watched Chriss Simms play at Texas, and I've never seen anything that would make you believe he would play like he has for TB..... So whatever that X-Factor is, I'll be the first to tell you I have no idea what it is.

But on the same note, so many times teams make the mistake of signing a player to a big lucrative contract after only one year of great play.

David Carr's contract was inked based on what we thought he would do. AAron Brooks contract was inked on one year of great play. Vick, on one year of exciting football. If vince signs to a lucrative contract, it'll be based on what we think he'll do.

That's just the way it is, I know.

But Ragone......... he may very well be the next DelHOmme. Only time will tell.
__________________
thunderkyss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #15
Kaiser Toro
Native Mod
 
Kaiser Toro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Straight Outta Austin
Age: 44
Posts: 16,033
Rep Power: 35068 Kaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respectedKaiser Toro is a quality contributor and well respected
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by profan
You do not hate him? Seems like you have a major problem. Get over it and keep these comments out of texans talk. There is another section for these comments and it's not in this section.
No hate, no problem. Good call on the Texans talk comments, but hey, I did manage to discuss two out of the four subjects in the threads initial post. A party foul, maybe.

Back on topic ,I am not really a stats person nor am I a huge college football fan, as I love the NFL. But out of those four QB's Major Applewhite was clearly the least ready to be an NFL player due to his weak arm, small frame and non athletic nature - of course that is by NFL standards and the market bore that out.

I was not surprised Ragone was taken over Simms as the negative hype was to over bearing for NFL GM's to think intelligently. I thought he was a late two/early three. I still cannot believe we took a QB at that spot.
__________________
Smell the glove is here
Kaiser Toro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #16
profan
Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 51
Posts: 368
Rep Power: 11 profan is ridin' the pine
Default

I was surprised we took a qb at that spot also. Seems like we could have selected a player that would be on the field contributing rather than sitting #3 on the depth chart. I liked Ragone better than Sims, but really was surprised to see Sims drop so low. Applewhite was never on my NFL radar, i think applwhite was a better college qb than Sims, but Sims had more pro potential. Ragone still beats them both.
profan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #17
A Texan
Veteran
 
A Texan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Age: 69
Posts: 220
Rep Power: 11 A Texan is a team player
Default

Not getting picked high in the NFL was the greatist thing that could happen to Simms. Not a lot was expected and he could sit back and take his time developing. Contrast this with the expectations out of high school. His affluent background actually hurt him. He had played in a questionable prep league so he wasn't really ready for big time college ball despite good stats. The pressure to prove himself in big games got to be too much and he tried to do too much resulting in costly mistakes. They should have just brought him along slow and let fans howl if they wanted. I hope he continues to do well.
A Texan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2006   #18
tsip
Hall of Fame
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,277
Rep Power: 13 tsip was voted MVPtsip was voted MVPtsip was voted MVP
Default

"of course that is by NFL standards and the market bore that out"

I'm not sure what your thinking is here because the fact is that Applewhite signed a free agent contract with the New England Patriots, receiving a signing bonus. Then, for whatever reason, he gave back the money and walked away without ever playing a down. However, some pretty good evaluators were willing to give him a shot. Too, as far as weak arm, Major became Texas all time leading passer by putting up his numbers in less than 3 years, losing his job to Simms due to an injury and never given a chance to get it back, sitting out his entire senior year. Also, Majors YPC was very good as he was not a dink dink thrower and he still holds a couple records in the top 5 longest TDs in Longhorn History--96 and 97. Applewhite was one of those QBs that made the throws-whatever they needed to be--but he was injury prone and his weak knees may have been his NFL decision maker.

Part of Applwhite's popularity was due to his non-stop involvement in the community and smile and pleasant demeanor. I'm sure we'll hear his name often once he is at the helm at Rice.

Carr's YPC 13.3
Applewhite's YPC 13.7

Last edited by tsip; 01-22-2006 at 02:44 PM.
tsip is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Houston Texans Message Board & Forum - TexansTalk.com > The Great Fans of the Houston Texans > Texans Talk
Home Forums Register FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Ad Management by RedTyger