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Old 01-20-2006   #1
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Default Trade up with Second Rounders?

I was listening to them on 610 this morning and I only got the end of it but they were talking draft scenarios. They mentioned trading down to 4th and picking up that #1, the next years #1 and maybe a 2nd (I think this is what they said). You use this on Hawk. Then you package the 2nd rounder and your second rounder to move up and take Pope at TE. So essentially you get Hawk, Pope and hopefully a high first rounder next year(since they would have a new coach/QB) and then you can try and take Quinn or Adrian Peterson, etc. Anyone like this scenario?
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Old 01-20-2006   #2
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While I want the Texans to get a good TE this off-season, I don't like the idea of trading the 2 2nds to force Pope in when Lewis and or other TE's will be available in the draft.

Consider whether Pope is better than two of: Mercedes Lewis, Winston Justice, Abdul Hodge, Daryn Colledge, Darnell Bing or similar players.
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Old 01-20-2006   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
While I want the Texans to get a good TE this off-season, I don't like the idea of trading the 2 2nds to force Pope in when Lewis and or other TE's will be available in the draft.

Consider whether Pope is better than two of: Mercedes Lewis, Winston Justice, Abdul Hodge, Daryn Colledge, Darnell Bing or similar players.
I agree and there maybe an outside shot that he drops to #33 anyways depending on how things pan out. Doubtful but maybe. I think the second round is still full of talent and you can find the O-linemen you are looking for or another TE.
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Old 01-20-2006   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infantrycak
While I want the Texans to get a good TE this off-season, I don't like the idea of trading the 2 2nds to force Pope in when Lewis and or other TE's will be available in the draft.

Consider whether Pope is better than two of: Mercedes Lewis, Winston Justice, Abdul Hodge, Daryn Colledge, Darnell Bing or similar players.
Agreed, I am in favor of trading down (Jets would be a great choice for at least a first trade down), but I don't like the picks you suggested. Trading two of the top four picks in the 2nd round for a TE would be a bad mistake, for one there will be many very capable TEs available at the top of the 2nd round anyways, and I do not even like taking a TE with one of those, much less trading both of them off to move up a bit for one (rememer the Babin trade two years back when we sent a bunch of picks off to get him when he would have been available where our 2nd rounder was anyways, and if he somehow wasn't someone just as capable would have been there). I also don't overly want us to take A.J. Hawk, especially at the #4 pick. I think he will be a solid NFL LB but you have to be a very special LB to be picked in the top 8 and I don't see him as being that good, plus we need to go after offensive players with our high picks, the only exception would be to get a good 4-3 DE if we do switch to a 4-3 or else for a good CB/S, otherwise we need to use two high picks on OLine, then one of them on a DE/CB/S, then maybe look for a TE and/or LB, so I would prefer to see us not go after TE/LB until at least the 3rd round, depending of course on what we do with the #1. If we draft Bush at #1 we need to use at least the 2nd and one 3rd on OL, then go from there, but if we trade down and grab OL/DE with our 1st and acquire additional 2nd or 3rd round picks then we can look at a LB/TE ealier in the draft once we get those other needs addressed.
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Old 01-20-2006   #5
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You missed the conversation. Lance was talking about trading down with the Jets to get their 1st and 2nd this year and a 1st next year. Here is how he mapped it out:

Trade our 1st to Jets for their 2006 1st and 2nd and 2007 1st.

1st (#4-Jets) AJ Hawk

Then we try to trade back into the 1st to get a TE (Leonard Pope or Marcedes Lewis). He suggested we could do it with one of our two 2nds (now that we have the Jets too) and either a 3rd or 4th. Looking at the value chart, we could move up to Tampa Bay's 1st if we gave them our 2nd and 3rd.

Trade out 2nd(1) and 3rd(1) to Tampa Bay for their 1st(22)

1st(#4-Jets) AJ Hawk
1st (#22-Bucs) Leonard Pope
We would still have the Jets 2nd (#7) to take an O-lineman as well as the Saints 3rd (#2) and our own 4th (#1). Additionally, we would have two 1st in 2007 (ours and the Jets). That would give us two good shots at a top 10 pick next year. We might be able to make a run at Adrian Peterson or Brady Quinn by packaging those picks.

This isn't my take. This is what Lance Z. basically broke down (although he didn't specifically target Tampa Bay as a trading partner).
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Old 01-20-2006   #6
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IMO the only TE worth trading for is Vernon Davis.
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Old 01-20-2006   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOgre
You missed the conversation. Lance was talking about trading down with the Jets to get their 1st and 2nd this year and a 1st next year. Here is how he mapped it out:

Trade our 1st to Jets for their 2006 1st and 2nd and 2007 1st.

1st (#4-Jets) AJ Hawk

Then we try to trade back into the 1st to get a TE (Leonard Pope or Marcedes Lewis). He suggested we could do it with one of our two 2nds (now that we have the Jets too) and either a 3rd or 4th. Looking at the value chart, we could move up to Tampa Bay's 1st if we gave them our 2nd and 3rd.

Trade out 2nd(1) and 3rd(1) to Tampa Bay for their 1st(22)

1st(#4-Jets) AJ Hawk
1st (#22-Bucs) Leonard Pope
We would still have the Jets 2nd (#7) to take an O-lineman as well as the Saints 3rd (#2) and our own 4th (#1). Additionally, we would have two 1st in 2007 (ours or the Jets). That would give us two good shots at a top 10 pick next year. We might be able to make a run at Adrian Peterson or Brady Quinn by packaging those picks.

This isn't my take. This is what Lance Z. basically broke down (although he didn't specifically target Tampa Bay as a trading partner).
Thanks for clarifying, I missed that part of the broadcast, and I'm with you that it doesn't sound like a real good plan. As I previously said, I don't like Hawk all that much and would use a #4 on hardly any LB, definitely not one in this draft with the other players available. I also don't see the point in giving up our top 3rd round pick to move up 8 spots and grab a TE when several good ones will be available and that #65 pick will be quite valuable too. I for one don't see TE as that big of a necessity (relative to other needs on our team) that I'd spend anything above a 3rd round pick on one this year, with this draft class, and with our team being the way it currently is.
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Old 01-20-2006   #8
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I like the trade down idea, but if we trade down for anyone, then I think we trade down to 4 and pick D.Ferguson help stabablize the o-line. There are alot of people who think that Ferguson is over-rated, but there i not one supposed draft expert that doesnt say he is a rare talent at the position and will be a franchise LT.

Oh and about the trading up. I personally do not believe in trading away 2 player for one. If we had 2 second rounders, then we could possibly wait for one of the top 3 TEs to fall or wate until the third and take Anthony Fasano from Notre Dame. At most I would trade back up into the second if I didnt think that he would fall that far.
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Old 01-20-2006   #9
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Ive run across this idea as well. I even have a thread about it, but I think the best idea is to see who falls to you. We have a very good draft class this year, and I would rather have 3 round1 graded players, than 2.

Also, I am going with Mario Williams, or D Ferguson in the first.

DE Mario Williams
LT Daryn Colledge
OG Davin Joseph

LT D Ferguson
DT Rod Wright
OG Davin Joseph
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Old 01-20-2006   #10
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Thanks for clearing that up Ogre. As I said, I got the tail end of it and just heard him talking about trading with the 2nd and thought he meant both of them.
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Old 01-20-2006   #11
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i may be in the minority here, but with the glut of USC games on television, i watched domonique byrd quite a bit, and liked what i saw. He didnt seem to have any problems blocking, and he was an absolute beast when he caught the ball...didnt see him miss too many completions, and he knocked people over. He is probalby gonna be on the board in round 3, and i think that is a good time to address that particular need.
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Old 01-20-2006   #12
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No TE in this draft has looked as athletic as Shockey or K2, for that matter Heath Miller might even be better than most of the high end guys in this draft. Davis is talented that is true, but he is not trade back and get him, especially on a team that really does not need a TE. I understand why you guys say that, but we did not use the TE, and if we decide to do that now, I would believe that a 4-6 round guy would be adequate enough with the TEs that are already on the roster. Plus FA has several TE that were high draft picks that will get free. Does not seem smart to waste a high pick on a TE.
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Old 01-20-2006   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach C.
No TE in this draft has looked as athletic as Shockey or K2, for that matter Heath Miller might even be better than most of the high end guys in this draft. Davis is talented that is true, but he is not trade back and get him, especially on a team that really does not need a TE. I understand why you guys say that, but we did not use the TE, and if we decide to do that now, I would believe that a 4-6 round guy would be adequate enough with the TEs that are already on the roster. Plus FA has several TE that were high draft picks that will get free. Does not seem smart to waste a high pick on a TE.

That is not true. Vernon Davis is faster and stronger than Shockey and K2. I believe he has almost all of the weight room records at Maryland and he runs a 4.4
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Old 01-20-2006   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE NFL DRAFT
Ive run across this idea as well. I even have a thread about it, but I think the best idea is to see who falls to you. We have a very good draft class this year, and I would rather have 3 round1 graded players, than 2.

Also, I am going with Mario Williams, or D Ferguson in the first.

DE Mario Williams
LT Daryn Colledge
OG Davin Joseph

LT D Ferguson
DT Rod Wright
OG Davin Joseph

As for Ferguson, what about the rap that he had an inconsistent senior year and started getting banged up?I just think with the depth of skill players at the top, this is your shot to take someone that is a playmaker on O or D. Hopefully you won't be spending too much time in this position. Also will Kubiak's (Denver's) way of taking smaller/quicker guys who are late rounder affect the position of taking a big O-lineman that high?That is why I'm not keen on Brick.
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Old 01-20-2006   #15
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id be more in favor of packaging the second rounds to trade up and grab Ko Simpson or Eric Winston.
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Old 01-20-2006   #16
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Lance (610) has some kind of man-crush on Pope
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Old 01-20-2006   #17
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The only trade-up scenario I wouldn't mind would be to get New Orleans pick to take Young and Bush (perhaps Carr, DD and our 2007 1st?)

Otherwise, I'd hold onto the picks or trade down. This is a very deep draft.
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Old 01-20-2006   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOgre
The only trade-up scenario I wouldn't mind would be to get New Orleans pick to take Young and Bush (perhaps Carr, DD and our 2007 1st?)

Otherwise, I'd hold onto the picks or trade down. This is a very deep draft.
I'd agree with that- this is going to be such a deep draft, the 2nd rd. pick is just like a 1st and the 3rd's are going be just like 2nd's in most years. I also believe it supports the theory of going with Bush or Young & taking them as your future offensive playmaker, then address your needs in later rounds
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Old 01-20-2006   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beerlover
I'd agree with that- this is going to be such a deep draft, the 2nd rd. pick is just like a 1st and the 3rd's are going be just like 2nd's in most years. I also believe it supports the theory of going with Bush or Young & taking them as your future offensive playmaker, then address your needs in later rounds
That is what I have been saying too. You can still take Bush and have three top 66 picks which are going to be GOOD players and fill some O-line spots and TE, LB, what have you. You don't have to have either/or but can do both with good drafting.
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Old 01-20-2006   #20
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Eric Winston would be about the only guy I'd be willing to trade back up and get (we could likely package something to Denver for their #22 pick if he's there) although some mocks now have Winston falling to the 2nd round, but I doubt that happens after all the workouts are done with. Drafting Vince and Reggie would be a huge mistake. For one, we would have to trade off Carr, Davis, and a couple picks, so that would be a huge cap hit and would cost us a lot to bring in one extra pick, plus that really depletes our offense of current talent, meaning Vince will have to start his rookie year and struggle a lot and Bush will have to shoulder a whole lot of the running game, probaly more than he should have to. It puts our offense into the hands of two rookies which is never a good idea, especially when the QB is not realistically going to be ready to be an NFL QB for 1.5 to 2 years and the RB has questions about his durability.
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